Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

hahaha .. guess we got to take a laugh where we can get it.

Poch will not survive another month of bad results, the cynic in me says Levy put a performance clause in the contract (if the team is in bottom 6 or something like that) and he's waiting on it to pull the trigger.

I doubt any such clause is necessary, to be honest.

I certainly doubt Levy is waiting on such a thing to be triggered before sacking Poch off.

I believe Levy will give Poch as much leeway/time/slack as he possibly can before having to make that decision.

Simple as that, really. Poch deserves as much, and they clearly have a good relationship.

The only real question for me is where that line should be drawn.

Personally its all about signs of recovery for me, for others its obviously more a faith based decision.

For Levy? I suspect if the crowd go he will react. If the crowd dont it will come down to how much of the season can be sacrificed before change is essential to meet Levys expectations for the club/team.

 

[glasgowspur]

The bet would have to come with caveats, right now our points total at end of season based on last 20 games (or 45) is on target for around 40-42 points (that will be closer to 18th, than 5th)

IF we change the manager, I'd take your bet, if Poch stays till end of season, the second option is probably more likely.

And in the nutshell is my point, last season form has gone, good or bad.
Players, teams, managers have all changed right across the league. Those games from last season have little bearing on this season.
Sheffield, Brighton and Bournemouth are all in the top 10, do you expect them to stay there?
Two ojf our next three league fixtures are against those teams BTW, pity about the Cup final with wham in between.

 

[Legohamster]

Can we just settle on the Burnley away game as when it really started to go downhill.

Up to that point we were in a title race apparently, so even if things weren't all ok, somehow (probably due to our results) we were in a title race. I'm ok with being not perfect but in a title race.

From Burnley things haven't looked good, albeit a LC semi-final and CL final, not forgetting the terrible 3 months where we didn't even play a game. We all hoped a fresh start this season would be exactly that...but a hangover continues and Poch is struggling with a way forward.

He's here all season though so let's just get used to it.

Personally think it kicked in before then.

Our performances were dire, not much better than this season but managed to somehow get a win - keeper error/the other side missing sitters etc

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Honestly dont feel good about the Sheff Utd game, they are everything we are not at the moment and I suspect a home upset from them.

West Ham is a horrible game as well.

Bournemouth I fully expect to win, we pretty much always do. Its one of the reasons Im no fan of Howe managing us (yet), he needs to learn to adapt. Instead he just opens up every time against us and gets beaten well (yes Im aware we lost 1-0 in our last game)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Personally think it kicked in before then.

Our performances were dire, not much better than this season but managed to somehow get a win - keeper error/the other side missing sitters etc

Performance were definitely poor, but results great.

At that point you look for the "inevitable" upturn in performance down the line, the current results, and see only positive things.

A year ago I wasnt happy with how we were playing, but with how we were positioned - and the potential in our season once we got ourselves back on form? I was delighted with our prospects.

Except, that inevitable upturn in form just hasnt materialised at all. Things have got worse, if anything.

 

[scaramanga]

.....What?

first of all, the season is just over a quarter of the way through. Secondly, it is all relative. Maybe going stale at United under Fergie meant they had a season finishing 3rd. Maybe for us it means finishing 6th. Maybe for Dortmund it meant finishing 7th in Germany.

this straw man of top 2 to bottom 5 is not something I’m trying to knock down.

interesting quotes here from the Dortmund higher ups too...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...gen-klopp-open-borussia-dortmund-20550840.amp


And Watzke, admits that he should have perhaps attempted to change the mind of Klopp, when he elected to depart in 2015.

“We did not try to change his mind anymore. But that was maybe a mistake. Perhaps it would have been better if we had exchanged the entire team – not the coach.

“Because I knew that, we would never get back such a coach. When I said goodbye, real tears came.

—————

we don’t need to change the entire team, but there is some logic in keeping a special manager.

Our form since Jan has been bottom 5 form.

Our xG trend since around 6 months before that has been terrible and worsening over that time.

Just as I'm sure when people were posting about how good our long term form was a couple of years ago, you would have told the halfwits that believe form only counts between two arbitrary dates, I'm sure you understand the value of longer term trends in sport. Our trend should be worrying to any fan.

 

[scaramanga]

We are mid table, 5 points from 5 and points from 18th.
Im not a betting man but I'll take a charity £20 bet with you we finish closer to 5th than 18th.

Trends in form don't start and stop at arbitrary dates, you know?

Otherwise, 10 minutes into the season the favourites for the title would be the goons, with Villa a close second.

If City had lost their first game this season, can I assume you wouldn't be betting on them to get relegated? That would be because form from previous seasons has worth when measuring a team.

 

[scaramanga]

Can we just settle on the Burnley away game as when it really started to go downhill.

Up to that point we were in a title race apparently, so even if things weren't all ok, somehow (probably due to our results) we were in a title race. I'm ok with being not perfect but in a title race.

From Burnley things haven't looked good, albeit a LC semi-final and CL final, not forgetting the terrible 3 months where we didn't even play a game. We all hoped a fresh start this season would be exactly that...but a hangover continues and Poch is struggling with a way forward.

He's here all season though so let's just get used to it.

That's where the results started to catch the performances but we'd been getting progressively worse for a while.

 

[Robspur12]

Personally think it kicked in before then.

Our performances were dire, not much better than this season but managed to somehow get a win - keeper error/the other side missing sitters etc

And yet we managed to beat Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and West Ham away in the LC. We beat Everton away 6-2 and thrashed Bournemouth 5-0, just two months before. For me Burnley was a clear turning point.

 

[Robspur12]

That's where the results started to catch the performances but we'd been getting progressively worse for a while.

Yet at Christmas we were third with our best start for years. The problem was that we didn't then replace Dembele or Wanyama.

 

[Legohamster]

And yet we managed to beat Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal and West Ham away in the LC. We beat Everton away 6-2 and thrashed Bournemouth 5-0, just two months before. For me Burnley was a clear turning point.

I would add Wolves away to that list

There was, I agree high points - but on whole the performances were not there.

Laboured wins over Cardiff/Burnely - and the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game when the keeper let one through his legs in the last minute spring to mind.

 

[Robspur12]

I would add Wolves away to that list

There was, I agree high points - but on whole the performances were not there.

Laboured wins over Cardiff/Burnely - and the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game when the keeper let one through his legs in the last minute spring to mind.

Yes there were games where the performances dipped but we still got a result. Even City get those. You cannot ignore several top class performances to conveniently suggest we were poor all season. Where the results started to really go against us was after the Burnley game.

 

[Legohamster]

Yes there were games where the performances dipped but we still got a result. But you cannot ignore several top class performances to conveniently suggest we were poor all season. Where the results started to really go against us was after the Burnley game.

I have not ignored the top performances at all - I am suggesting that even when we were winning games there was an aspect of luck and it was pretty poor.

The sideways crab football started before Burnley.

 

[glasgowspur]

Trends in form don't start and stop at arbitrary dates, you know?

Otherwise, 10 minutes into the season the favourites for the title would be the goons, with Villa a close second.

If City had lost their first game this season, can I assume you wouldn't be betting on them to get relegated? That would be because form from previous seasons has worth when measuring a team.

Yes I do know.
Just as I know that last seasons form has worth, a limited worth though. Too many variables have changed over a closed season and transfer window for it to be otherwise.

It is too early in this season to say that we have relegation form.

 

[Robspur12]

I have not ignored the top performances at all - I am suggesting that even when we were winning games there was an aspect of luck and it was pretty poor.

The sideways crab football started before Burnley.

At the start of last season we were competing in a tough Champs League group, while facing PL teams in the LC and in the PL. It's not surprising that we scraped over the line in some games. But I still maintain it is difficult to make an argument that this was a trend in bad form because we were playing all these games and yet recorded one of our best PL starts.
I'll go on to say that although related, imo, the reason for our current malaise is different to the end of last season where it was down to squad fatigue and injury plus no Dembele or Wanyama. Currently it's down to how important Eriksen's creativity is to the attack in particular. We miss peak Eriksen and have not replaced him. We also need to to replace Wanyama.

 

[Bishop]

At the start of last season we were competing in a tough Champs League group, while facing PL teams in the LC and in the PL. It's not surprising that we scraped over the line in some games. But I still maintain it is difficult to make an argument that this was a trend in bad form because we were playing all these games and yet recorded one of our best PL starts.
I'll go on to say that although related, imo, the reason for our current malaise is different to the end of last season where it was down to squad fatigue and injury. Currently it's down to how important Eriksen's creativity is to the attack in particular. We miss peak Eriksen and have not replaced him.

This is Poch's fault, he never built a squad to cope with an injured or out of form Eriksen. He had to play for us to create any sort of chances and now he's in a funk Poch really doesn't know how to work around that.

Ndombele is a great start but I really don't think Poch beloved in creative CMs as much as we would hope. Until Ndombele he's never even attempted to add any quality to CM and this season where are struggling particularly in attack he's chosen not to select Ndombele and Lo Celso on multiple occasions.

He's seems stuck in a rut and trying out what worked previously, without taking into account the change in those player's circumstances and age. You can't keep trying the same and just hope that "maybe this time it will work"

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[Robspur12]

This is Poch's fault, he never built a squad to cope with an injured or out of form Eriksen. He had to play for us to create any sort of chances and now he's in a funk Poch really doesn't know how to work around that.

Or perhaps the money wasn't available for a replacement until the last transfer window?

 

[Bishop]

Or perhaps the money wasn't available for a replacement until the last transfer window?

I don't buy the idea that in 5 years of management there was never the money to buy a passing capable CM. We spent 30 fudging mill on Sissoko for GHod's sake.

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[scaramanga]

Yet at Christmas we were third with our best start for years. The problem was that we didn't then replace Dembele or Wanyama.

We were third and playing brick. Results don't always match performances.

 

[scaramanga]

Yes I do know.
Just as I know that last seasons form has worth, a limited worth though. Too many variables have changed over a closed season and transfer window for it to be otherwise.

It is too early in this season to say that we have relegation form.

Or, looking at trends as having valuable use for forward prediction, it's too early this season to say we're not in relegation form.