Harry Winks

[DubaiSpur]

I still think a midfield trio of Winks, Alli and Eriksen is too weak defensively.

I felt we got away with it this evening. A number of times we were caught short with huge empty spaces between defense and midfield.

We also struggled to win back possession... If we're going to persist with young Harry, we need someone with steel/discipline to play alongside him.

Dier, Wanyama or other.

Agreed. However, a 'pure' DM might be superfluous to have - it would definitely help solidify the midfield and provide us a good defensive platform, but it might not be the best option if we're looking to become more dynamic in central midfield.

One option I've thought long and hard about is someone like Leon Goretzka - an all-round, physically imposing midfielder who can sit for Winks when he drives forward and likewise can alternately drive forward himself while Winks holds in a deeper position. And when we're out of possession, someone like Goretzka would prove more defensively sound than Alli - sort of like a slightly better Dembele in a defensive sense. Not a 'pure' DM by any means, but enough for our purposes given that we play a three-man back line anyway.

Basically, a complete midfielder to play alongside Winks, who is also developing into a complete midfielder. Adding someone like that could give us a very strong midfield, with that person and Winks forming the first echelon while Wanyama and Dembele (and possibly Onomah next season) slot in if required. And it would allow Dier to begin transitioning permanently to centre-back - if Toby leaves, he'd become part of our first-choice three alongside Sanchez and Verts. Aand if Toby stays for another year (I don't think we'll have him beyond 2019-2020 unless we get lucky), then Dier is the ideal player to have on the bench for a year - his versatility means we can use him as a sub CB, sub RB or sub DM for a season while we look for a permanent place for him.

The trouble with that approach is that these complete midfielders are usually either very expensive (we're talking Julian Weigl, Naby Keita and Adrien Rabiot levels of quality) or in demand (Goretzka - him being available on a free in the summer means that every club with two pennies to string together will be calling his agent). But it's worth trying to see if we can find someone who can play that role, imo.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Or, alternately, we could mold Onomah or (down the line) Oakley-Boothe into that role, if they grow as expected. Maybe even Oliver Skipp, if he continues developing. But trying out that setup of two complete central midfielders who can defend, pass, press and dribble as required could really pay off, imo. It's what Schalke used at the start of the season, incidentally - five-man defense shielded by two complete midfielders in Bentaleb and Goretzka. Then Bentaleb got injured and Goretzka got pushed further forward while Max Meyer was dropped into defensive midfield (as a distributor from deep, essentially) - but the approach seems sound.

 

[nayenezgani]

Agreed. However, a 'pure' DM might be superfluous to have - it would definitely help solidify the midfield and provide us a good defensive platform, but it might not be the best option if we're looking to become more dynamic in central midfield.

One option I've thought long and hard about is someone like Leon Goretzka - an all-round, physically imposing midfielder who can sit for Winks when he drives forward and likewise can alternately drive forward himself while Winks holds in a deeper position. And when we're out of possession, someone like Goretzka would prove more defensively sound than Alli - sort of like a slightly better Dembele in a defensive sense. Not a 'pure' DM by any means, but enough for our purposes given that we play a three-man back line anyway.

Basically, a complete midfielder to play alongside Winks, who is also developing into a complete midfielder. Adding someone like that could give us a very strong midfield, with that person and Winks forming the first echelon while Wanyama and Dembele (and possibly Onomah next season) slot in if required. And it would allow Dier to begin transitioning permanently to centre-back - if Toby leaves, he'd become part of our first-choice three alongside Sanchez and Verts. Aand if Toby stays for another year (I don't think we'll have him beyond 2019-2020 unless we get lucky), then Dier is the ideal player to have on the bench for a year - his versatility means we can use him as a sub CB, sub RB or sub DM for a season while we look for a permanent place for him.

The trouble with that approach is that these complete midfielders are usually either very expensive (we're talking Julian Weigl, Naby Keita and Adrien Rabiot levels of quality) or in demand (Goretzka - him being available on a free in the summer means that every club with two pennies to string together will be calling his agent). But it's worth trying to see if we can find someone who can play that role, imo.

Goretzka was exactly who I was thinking of.. I think he'd be the perfect foil and he's still very young. Get him in Poch!

 

[DubaiSpur]

Goretzka was exactly who I was thinking of.. I think he'd be the perfect foil and he's still very young. Get him in Poch!

As I said, the problem is that every club worth their salt will be calling him up in January to get him locked down for the summer. City, Arsenal, United, Chelsea, Barca, Madrid, PSG, Juve...and Bayern.

We have to present something different if we want to get him. I wonder if buying him and loaning him back to Schalke for the second half of the season might do it - pay them a reasonably big fee (25 million or so, perhaps) - big enough to get them to agree to this. And then get Goretzka to sign a five and half-year deal with us before immediately loaning him back to Schalke so he can see out the season with them and help them get into the Champions League.

Something unconventional like that could work - Schalke would be eager for the extra cash (compared to losing him for nothing in the summer, they get 25 million *and* get to keep him until the summer anyway), and would no doubt press him to accept that offer if he isn't signing a new deal with them. And Goretzka's a Gelsenkirchen lad, so he will no doubt be keen to see his club get some compensation for losing him. And of course, we get to tie down an enormous talent.

Only downside is that it might not allow us to pay him the stonking wage that we would otherwise offer were he to arrive on a free. but if we get into that game, we won't win anyway - every big club will blow us out of the water. We need to think differently with Goretzka.

 

[DubaiSpur]

We could also target Jorginho, of Napoli - 25, with a contract due to expire in 2020. Earns 50k per week, apparently, which we could probably double without too much of a strain on our wage budget. Same sort of strong, reasonably tall midfielder who can equally defend, press, dribble and pass (brilliantly - his long passing is incredible). And also comes from a similar system to ours (Napoli's), which would make the transition easier.

 

[FatBloke]

We could also target Jorginho, of Napoli - 25, with a contract due to expire in 2020. Earns 50k per week, apparently, which we could probably double without too much of a strain on our wage budget. Same sort of strong, reasonably tall midfielder who can equally defend, press, dribble and pass (brilliantly - his long passing is incredible). And also comes from a similar system to ours (Napoli's), which would make the transition easier.

Dare to dream?

It's potential transfers like these that our CL performances make possible. Thumping Real Madrid and finishing top of the group with some no-name homegrown youngster at CM should make every talented young footballer in Europe sit up and take notice.

I hope.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Dare to dream?

It's potential transfers like these that our CL performances make possible. Thumping Real Madrid and finishing top of the group with some no-name homegrown youngster at CM should make every talented young footballer in Europe sit up and take notice.

I hope.

Not yet. A one-off result doesn't really help, I think - apart from providing some good memories for our existing players, and proving what we *can* do to players who made the choice to join us already. Aurier, for example, justified his move to PSG fans by pointing out that we aren't some minnows lucky to have him - we're a big team with big ambitions. Results like against Madrid help vindicate that decision to choose us over other suitors.

In that sense, it helps. But improving our attractiveness to other players? I'm not sure. I think we already received that 'boost' in 2010-2011 when players started looking at us as a side with the ability to qualify for the top four and trouble the top sides, as opposed to just being contenders for top six/Europa League.

But we failed to take advantage of that - we couldn't manage another CL campaign after that for five years, and the momentum faded a bit. We still ended up on a higher level than we were at prior to that season, but I think that had more to do with moving from Spurs Lodge to Hotspur Way, and with swapping Bale and Modric for more high-profile (if not necessarily successful) additions across the squad.

This time, if we want to use the Madrid result to genuinely solidify our attractiveness to Europe's top talents, we'll need to compound it, I think. Not just in the group stages - we need to get to the latter stages of the competition itself. Quarter-final - maybe semi-final, even. And then, we need to qualify for the CL *again* next year, so that we can offer anyone we target a chance to repeat those feats in 2018-2019.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not yet. A one-off result doesn't really help, I think - apart from providing some good memories for our existing players, and proving what we *can* do to players who made the choice to join us already. Aurier, for example, justified his move to PSG fans by pointing out that we aren't some minnows lucky to have him - we're a big team with big ambitions. Results like against Madrid help vindicate that decision to choose us over other suitors.

In that sense, it helps. But improving our attractiveness to other players? I'm not sure. I think we already received that 'boost' in 2010-2011 when players started looking at us as a side with the ability to qualify for the top four and trouble the top sides, as opposed to just being contenders for top six/Europa League.

But we failed to take advantage of that - we couldn't manage another CL campaign after that for five years, and the momentum faded a bit. We still ended up on a higher level than we were at prior to that season, but I think that had more to do with moving from Spurs Lodge to Hotspur Way, and with swapping Bale and Modric for more high-profile (if not necessarily successful) additions across the squad.

This time, if we want to use the Madrid result to genuinely solidify our attractiveness to Europe's top talents, we'll need to compound it, I think. Not just in the group stages - we need to get to the latter stages of the competition itself. Quarter-final - maybe semi-final, even. And then, we need to qualify for the CL *again* next year, so that we can offer anyone we target a chance to repeat those feats in 2018-2019.

Well I spoke to quite a few Dortmund fans out there and the think were brilliant and players will join to play for Poch

similarly the Bayern fans we met on the train said that they think young players in particular will love to join for Poch and also to play with Kane

 

[DubaiSpur]

Well I spoke to quite a few Dortmund fans out there and the think were brilliant and players will join to play for Poch

similarly the Bayern fans we met on the train said that they think young players in particular will love to join for Poch and also to play with Kane

Oh, I'm not denying that. It's why I think we have a chance (however slim) at getting Pulisic. But that chance will decrease if we don't press on with our CL campaign *and* qualify again for next season, is all - I think a truly memorable run would be reaching the quarter-finals or the semis and getting another crack at it next season. Otherwise, only we will look back on the Real Madrid and Dortmund games with fondness - to the wider football world, it will just look like a one-off.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Also, to further the point with @nayenezgani, another player with very similar attributes to Goretzka would be Weston McKennie - American at Schalke, plays the deep-lying midfielder role and is apparently enormously talented in terms of passing, defending and distribution, while being over six foot and built like a tank to boot. Only 19, too - good friends with Pulisic as well.

He could be our blockbuster American if Pulisic doesn't come off - or maybe even *if* he comes off. Just in case we want to make absolutely sure by having half the USMNT play for us - Pulisic, McKennie *and* Carter-Vickers.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Oh, I'm not denying that. It's why I think we have a chance (however slim) at getting Pulisic. But that chance will decrease if we don't press on with our CL campaign *and* qualify again for next season, is all - I think a truly memorable run would be reaching the quarter-finals or the semis and getting another crack at it next season. Otherwise, only we will look back on the Real Madrid and Dortmund games with fondness - to the wider football world, it will just look like a one-off.

Which is why that top 4 spot has to be the priority for now, as much as we would all love to win a trophy like the FA Cup.
Our wage structure is going to prevent any top, established players from joining for the next season or so.
But the attraction of joining a PL Club with a manager with a reputation for giving up and coming talent a chance might convince younger players looking for a break through/step up (rather than looking for a big wage packet) that Tottenham is the place to go (Even if they see us as a stepping stone initially).

As for Goretzka, we’ve apparently been making enquiries (as have lots of other clubs of course). According to the Twitter sphere he’s decided he wants to play in the PL. IF he were to choose us over everyone else that would be a big endorsement of what Poch is building.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Oh, I'm not denying that. It's why I think we have a chance (however slim) at getting Pulisic. But that chance will decrease if we don't press on with our CL campaign *and* qualify again for next season, is all - I think a truly memorable run would be reaching the quarter-finals or the semis and getting another crack at it next season. Otherwise, only we will look back on the Real Madrid and Dortmund games with fondness - to the wider football world, it will just look like a one-off.

Getting back into the champions league is paramount

 

[FatBloke]

Well I spoke to quite a few Dortmund fans out there and the think were brilliant and players will join to play for Poch

similarly the Bayern fans we met on the train said that they think young players in particular will love to join for Poch and also to play with Kane

That's what I mean. EVERYONE follows the Premier League and we've become one of the glamour teams. A waiter at a brewpub in Hamburg was hugely enthusiastic when he found out who I supported*. Harry Kane, Pochettino, Eriksen, in pretty much that order. Our image is building. Sure it'll take a while, but young players no longer need to Google us!

* After the usual "Where are you from?" "Manchester" "United or City?" "Neither -- Tottenham" stuff.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's what I mean. EVERYONE follows the Premier League and we've become one of the glamour teams. A waiter at a brewpub in Hamburg was hugely enthusiastic when he found out who I supported*. Harry Kane, Pochettino, Eriksen, in pretty much that order. Our image is building. Sure it'll take a while, but young players no longer need to Google us!

* After the usual "Where are you from?" "Manchester" "United or City?" "Neither -- Tottenham" stuff.

We are rapidly becoming a name and a force of the upper tier but we have to maximise it

 

[DubaiSpur]

Getting back into the champions league is paramount

Which is why that top 4 spot has to be the priority for now, as much as we would all love to win a trophy like the FA Cup.
Our wage structure is going to prevent any top, established players from joining for the next season or so.
But the attraction of joining a PL Club with a manager with a reputation for giving up and coming talent a chance might convince younger players looking for a break through/step up (rather than looking for a big wage packet) that Tottenham is the place to go (Even if they see us as a stepping stone initially).

As for Goretzka, we’ve apparently been making enquiries (as have lots of other clubs of course). According to the Twitter sphere he’s decided he wants to play in the PL. IF he were to choose us over everyone else that would be a big endorsement of what Poch is building.

I believe we can do both - get into the CL and win a cup. And, if it came down to it, I'd still prioritize the FA Cup, funny as it sounds. Because I think that would help us in *different* ways relative to qualifying for the CL.

If we get Goretzka, it would be brilliant. But I think it's a long shot.

 

[Spur of the moment]

We are rapidly becoming a name and a force of the upper tier but we have to maximise it

Truth is we need to win the CL pot to really make our mark. It's still something of a pipedream maybe but no longer totally out of reach.

We can at last dare to dream.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Truth is we need to win the CL pot to really make our mark. It's still something of a pipedream maybe but no longer totally out of reach.

We can at last dare to dream.

Not really

City ave never won it, arsenal haven’t either

I think you have to show the progress though to build that brand

I still some back to a club that we’re very similar too in Atletico and if we can be as competitive as them consistently then it would be great

 

[Cochise]

I know this is devolving into a tactics themed thread but I also like the idea of having two complete midfielders sitting in front of the back 3.

I'm not sure a true destroyer is required with a back 3.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I know this is devolving into a tactics themed thread but I also like the idea of having two complete midfielders sitting in front of the back 3.

I'm not sure a true destroyer is required with a back 3.

Complete midfielder pretty much fits all four of ours. In terms of combinations though, I think you'd ideally always prefer one of Dier/Wanyama and one of Winks/Dembele.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Not really

City ave never won it, arsenal haven’t either

I think you have to show the progress though to build that brand

I still some back to a club that we’re very similar too in Atletico and if we can be as competitive as them consistently then it would be great

Yes it is highly unlikely but impossible? Eight games to the final, some of which we could afford to draw or even conceivably lose and still go through to the next round. Leicester City proved nothing is impossible especially if you have the wind in your sails and your name on the trophy.

So yes I fully take on board your point about the need to build but I still dare to dream.