Harry Winks

[Bedfordspurs]

Either a "front 3" or a "front 4".

Kane and Alli are 100% locked in. That leaves one or two positions. Last night Rashford, Lingaard and Sturridge got game time. There's also Stirling, Lallana, Defoe, Chamberlain, Vardy, Walcott and a good handful more. On current ability and form I really don't see how Barkley stands out. And he's primarily a #10, and that's Alli's role. And he hasn't played a game in months.

He doesn't stand out as he hasn't had a chance but we have given chances to players who have frankly failed miserably IMO...

Sterling - runs blind alleys like a hooker and can't play well unless he has a lot of better player with him (like City)
Lallana - one of our better performers in an england shirt and will be in there I'm sure
Defoe - really at his age...
Chamberlain - awful player going backwards
Vardy - not picked for this squad yet is fit according to him
Walcott - he can't get near his club side and is anithe going backwards
Lingaard for me sint good enough but at least he trie s something different with an element of risk
Sturridge will be injured again soon and is at best Kane back up.

Barkley will only get a sniff if he joins us and gets games, neither of which are guaranteed

Ive seen barkley play plenty of time sin the there behind the striker and he can play across there. Ali for me is better coming in on the left which is where Rashford has been playing (hence why Rahsford was poor last night on the right, which is where Lallana can play)

 

[braineclipse]

Very different players. One is a metronome who keeps everything ticking over (something were appalling at as an international side)

The other is an inconstant but creative player who does stuff off the cuff (hence the likeness to Gazza although not a patch on him).

Both could have roles in the England team if we were brave enough

If we sign Barkley I fully expect him to get a chance back with England

A metronome. That can also take players on, that tackles and intercepts well, that covers space well, with good movement and reads the play well, that can deliver very good important balls into the final third and the box. That might just start chipping in with some goals.

He doesn't stand out as he hasn't had a chance but we have given chances to players who have frankly failed miserably IMO...

Sterling - runs blind alleys like a hooker and can't play well unless he has a lot of better player with him (like City)
Lallana - one of our better performers in an england shirt and will be in there I'm sure
Defoe - really at his age...
Chamberlain - awful player going backwards
Vardy - not picked for this squad yet is fit according to him
Walcott - he can't get near his club side and is anithe going backwards
Lingaard for me sint good enough but at least he trie s something different with an element of risk
Sturridge will be injured again soon and is at best Kane back up.

Barkley will only get a sniff if he joins us and gets games, neither of which are guaranteed

Ive seen barkley play plenty of time sin the there behind the striker and he can play across there. Ali for me is better coming in on the left which is where Rashford has been playing (hence why Rahsford was poor last night on the right, which is where Lallana can play)

First for him would have to be regular first team football somewhere. Until then he's rightly not even in contention.

 

[Gutter Boy]

With the way Winks has come in and been the best player in his first match, it's probably a sign we could promote more players from the good U20/U21 group.

I know it's a bit late in the day re this world cup, but I don't think the likes of Gray, Calvert-Lewin, Onomah and Sancho would be any worse than the Sterling, Lallana, Chamberlain, Lingaard, Sturridge, Barkely, Henderson, Livermore lot.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A metronome. That can also take players on, that tackles and intercepts well, that covers space well, with good movement and reads the play well, that can deliver very good important balls into the final third and the box. That might just start chipping in with some goals.

First for him would have to be regular first team football somewhere. Until then he's rightly not even in contention.

Agree on both parts

Winks is more than just a metronome but thats his style for me (Modric esque) and exactly what england need
Barkley needs to be playing club football before getting a look in for internationals although that doesn't stop Sturbridge, Ox and even Winks to name a few who aint getting club starts

 

[Bedfordspurs]

With the way Winks has come in and been the best player in his first match, it's probably a sign we could promote more players from the good U20/U21 group.

I know it's a bit late in the day re this world cup, but I don't think the likes of Gray, Calvert-Lewin, Onomah and Sancho would be any worse than the Sterling, Lallana, Chamberlain, Lingaard, Sturridge, Barkely, Henderson, Livermore lot.

Id rather save them than hurt their careers by throwing them in now

The England camp with the pressure around it fees like a place to kill a career rather than make it at the moment

 

[glorygloryeze]

There's such a long way for Barkley to be picked ahead of Alli in any game.

Of course; right now he is injured and has been playing for two managers in recent year who i believe are quite limited in terms of coaching.

That said, he still has posted decent numbers in terms of goals and assists and if he joins us Poch could take him a notch higher so that choice might exist in the future (even though they are both players with different skillsets imo)

 

[Gutter Boy]

Id rather save them than hurt their careers by throwing them in now

The England camp with the pressure around it fees like a place to kill a career rather than make it at the moment

Any time over the past 19 years (since Hoddle left) I would have agreed.

However now we have a different combination of a decent coach and zero expectations.

I'd be tempted to use this tournament purely as a step to 2020 or 2022, rather than an end itself. We know we've got a special group coming through, who are technical rather than just physical, so why not start focusing on them now.

 

[braineclipse]

Agree on both parts

Winks is more than just a metronome but thats his style for me (Modric esque) and exactly what england need
Barkley needs to be playing club football before getting a look in for internationals although that doesn't stop Sturbridge, Ox and even Winks to name a few who aint getting club starts

Difference between being more of a squad player and not being in the squad.

Winks is a squad player for us right now in that Dembele is the preferred option when fit. But I fully expect Winks to get plenty of game time this season. If he ups his game even a little from least season and shows consistency he really should be in the England squad at the world cup.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Any time over the past 19 years (since Hoddle left) I would have agreed.

However now we have a different combination of a decent coach and zero expectations.

I'd be tempted to use this tournament purely as a step to 2020 or 2022, rather than an end itself. We know we've got a special group coming through, who are technical rather than just physical, so why not start focusing on them now.

Have you read the slating we have had this week for winning both games... problem with England is the fans are never happy. We want club success and are willing to support a team full of foreigners (and applaud that), yet wonder why the national side suffers.

I know a Chelsea fan who loves nothing better than slating England as he sees it as a Tottenham team now

Bringing in genuine young talent can’t hurt if there good enough but none of them are yet IMO and it could hurt their development getting in with the current set up top quickly

 

[awesome dawson]

Any time over the past 19 years (since Hoddle left) I would have agreed.

However now we have a different combination of a decent coach and zero expectations.

I'd be tempted to use this tournament purely as a step to 2020 or 2022, rather than an end itself. We know we've got a special group coming through, who are technical rather than just physical, so why not start focusing on them now.

I'm not convinced he's that. We look as bad as Boro did at times. When has he ever been good? Under 21's had bucket loads of talent so he can't be credited with all their good form.

The guy couldn't take a penalty either IIRC.

 

[StephenH]

Between so call England "fans" and the current woeful media.
Our players have so much pressure on them it is unreal.
A large percentage of EPL football fans today are sadly macarons.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Difference between being more of a squad player and not being in the squad.

Winks is a squad player for us right now in that Dembele is the preferred option when fit. But I fully expect Winks to get plenty of game time this season. If he ups his game even a little from least season and shows consistency he really should be in the England squad at the world cup.

It’s a sad state of affairs but the Tottenham dowse is better than the England side

 

[El Guepardo]

I think by the end of next season, Winks will be a first team player for us. I think he will play, and impress, in Dembele's games out. He is excellent on the ball, can play the right pass and seems to have the right attitude. I think he will become so important for us.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Any time over the past 19 years (since Hoddle left) I would have agreed.

However now we have a different combination of a decent coach and zero expectations.

I'd be tempted to use this tournament purely as a step to 2020 or 2022, rather than an end itself. We know we've got a special group coming through, who are technical rather than just physical, so why not start focusing on them now.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Any time over the past 19 years (since Hoddle left) I would have agreed.

However now we have a different combination of a decent coach and zero expectations.

I'd be tempted to use this tournament purely as a step to 2020 or 2022, rather than an end itself. We know we've got a special group coming through, who are technical rather than just physical, so why not start focusing on them now.

Actually, now I've Googled it, you're right, it's not bad.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Southgate is alright. He's much smarter than all his recent predecessors and is progressive in his approach.

He's not a big personality, but international coaching is often more about diplomacy than being a strong alpha imposing yourself.

Other than Eddie Howe or maybe Sean Dyche, there's no one else I would rather have in the job at the moment.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think by the end of next season, Winks will be a first team player for us. I think he will play, and impress, in Dembele's games out. He is excellent on the ball, can play the right pass and seems to have the right attitude. I think he will become so important for us.

I could see it by the end of this season, not necessarily next.

Onomah coming back next summer could also be perfect timing vis-à-vis the waning of Dembele.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I could see it by the end of this season, not necessarily next.

Onomah coming back next summer could also be perfect timing vis-à-vis the waning of Dembele.

We do seem to be succession planning more and more

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Southgate is alright. He's much smarter than all his recent predecessors and is progressive in his approach.

He's not a big personality, but international coaching is often more about diplomacy than being a strong alpha imposing yourself.

Other than Eddie Howe or maybe Sean Dyche, there's no one else I would rather have in the job at the moment.

Agreed. I think Southgate is absolutely perfect for the FA. An absolute diplomat, but actually a master in taking the pressure off of the players. It hasn't seeped through into performances yet, but there seems to be a clear strategy to manage expectations down as a crop of youngsters come through. He's a little bit too fond of a two-destroyer double-pivot for my liking but otherwise I'm quite a big fan.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Agreed. I think Southgate is absolutely perfect for the FA. An absolute diplomat, but actually a master in taking the pressure off of the players. It hasn't seeped through into performances yet, but there seems to be a clear strategy to manage expectations down as a crop of youngsters come through. He's a little bit too fond of a two-destroyer double-pivot for my liking but otherwise I'm quite a big fan.

I think that might have just been needs must. Other than Winks, England doesn't really have another passing CM.

Also remember Hoddle's teams of 1997-8 were often based on an Ince-Batty pivot.