Fergie: Retired, Moyes: Sacked, LVG/Giggs: The New Super Duo

[harr1984]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

Yeah, because he has a successful history of hiring managers?

You said Moyes is nowhere near good enough to be manager of Man Utd. I say that Ferguson has a better of idea than you of a) What it takes to be a successful manager of Man Utd b) Who that manager would be.

Man Utd should have enticed just about anyone they wanted, they went for Moyes and there is obviously good reasons for that....

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

You said Moyes is nowhere near good enough to be manager of Man Utd. I say that Ferguson has a better of idea than you of a) What it takes to be a successful manager of Man Utd b) Who that manager would be.

Man Utd should have enticed just about anyone they wanted, they went for Moyes and there is obviously good reasons for that....

It is an area outside of Fergie's expertise. He knows how to run a football team, not how to run a football club.

On the other hand it is risk free for the club, if Moyes fails then he was Fergie's appointment and they wouldn't hold anything against him for long.

 

[Wriggly]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

It is an area outside of Fergie's expertise. He knows how to run a football team, not how to run a football club.

On the other hand it is risk free for the club, if Moyes fails then he was Fergie's appointment and they wouldn't hold anything against him for long.

Then why do chairmen/owners what to look for when they hire managers if they don't know how to run a football team ?

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

Then why do chairmen/owners what to look for when they hire managers if they don't know how to run a football team ?

If they knew how to run the football team then they would just run it themselves.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

Most chairmen/owners don't know what to look for. Otherwise quite a few managers would have been out of a job a long time ago. It's all about having a name, the right agent, the right connections etc.

 

[NWND]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

Time will tell on Moyes.

It IS the safe option rather than the ambitious one. I'm never convinced that a manager resorts to a certain playing style due to a lack of resources.

I'll give you some examples:

Brendan Rogers - managed to forge a quick-passing possession team on a shoe-string at Swansea. Is attempting to do the same at Liverpool with more money.
Tony Pulis - played blood and thunder disruption football with limited resources. After a few seasons in the Prem was given a load of cash to buy some quality players. Continues to instruct those players to play like 1980s Wimbledon.
Jose Mourinho - is ultimately a defensive coach that likes to sit deep and hit on the break. Has played this way at Porto with a (relatively) small budget and at Chelsea, Inter and Real with huge budgets.
Arsene Wenger - pioneered the possession/pace/play your style regardless of what the opposition do approach, kept with it when it worked because the Premiership wasn't as high in quality, but also stuck with it when other teams caught up and then overtook Arsenal at what they did by combining the possession bit with defensive and tactical nous and physical and mental strength.

Its hard to change your ways, especially if you have been successful in the past with those ways. Moyes may think about playing expansive possession football, but he'll be scared. His methods worked at Everton, they've brought him to where he is now. The temptation to keep doing the same thing that you know works and gives you a minimum level of result that you are familiar with is so great that the majority don't deviate.

Its why Fergie was such a great. He is the one manager I can readily think of that has continued to reinvent himself, his tactics and his teams as football has changed and evolved.

Time will tell whether Moyes falls into the same habits as he did at Everton. Sign big, strong players who are good in the air all over the pitch. Set up in a rigid formation. Make the game a battle and make sure you have good poachers and set piece takers dotted about to take advantage of your opportunities. I suspect he will and it will take this United team fairly far, but will it take them far enough for United?

He may reinvent himself and create another dynasty like Fergie. Its certainly going to be interesting next season...

 

[Charlie]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

I have read somewhere that player's character and team chemistry is a big part of Moyes' decisions on the team. He does not buy mercenaries, does his best to make sure that any players he buy has ability, high moral characters, loyalty, will play for the others, and will fit well with the team. Everton players rarely get into troubles off the field. All their star players seem to stay with the team for long time - case in point Baines, Jagielka, Tim Cahill, Fellaini, and Moyes himself. This is in-line with the management style of Ferguson. Most ManU players are very loyal to the team. Most of them do not get in troubles off-the-field. Troublemakers get sold. And they work very hard in games.

Perhaps there is more to look for in a manager than just looking at records and trophies.

 

[Wriggly]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

If they knew how to run the football team then they would just run it themselves.

Exactly, so let Fergie chose the man he thinks can run the team as he is the only one in the football club that knows how.

 

[metalgear]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

Took a football man to do what the journalists couldn't: Is David Moyes really the ideal man for Manchester United, asks @karlsentk

didn't know who he was until your post:

Tor-Kristian Karlsen is a Norwegian football scout and executive, formerly the chief executive and sporting director at Monaco. He has previously worked as a scout for Grasshopper, Watford, Bayer Leverkusen, Hannover and Zenit St Petersburg and as sporting director for Fredrikstad FK

 

[Rorschach]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

So reportedly Moyes looks to bring Fellaini and Baines with him to Old Trafford.

These moves will take out one of our competitors for the CL spot (singular) next season if they happen. Losing Moyes is a blow for Everton but on top , to lose their two best players would send them back to mid table.

As an aside, I don't really see Fellaini as a Utd player.

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

These moves will take out one of our competitors for the CL spot (singular) next season if they happen. Losing Moyes is a blow for Everton but on top , to lose their two best players would send them back to mid table.

As an aside, I don't really see Fellaini as a Utd player.

I think it depends on who Everton get in charge. Players are replaceable at the end of the day. If they got rid of Fellaini, they may find some other gem who could string midfield and attack together (Fellaini isn't that man).. and if Baines leaves maybe they'll just sign a solid left back replacement, they might miss his goals from set pieces but I am sure the new guy in charge will understand that and look to find someone else to find the goals.

I mean, we lost King, Modric and VDV, were Arsenal and Chelsea saying "Well, that takes out our competitors for a CL spot next season?" .. We simply got AVB in and he made us more of a team in my view. We may have lost out on individual talent but as a team, I really think we are better.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

I think it depends on who Everton get in charge. Players are replaceable at the end of the day. If they got rid of Fellaini, they may find some other gem who could string midfield and attack together (Fellaini isn't that man).. and if Baines leaves maybe they'll just sign a solid left back replacement, they might miss his goals from set pieces but I am sure the new guy in charge will understand that and look to find someone else to find the goals.

I mean, we lost King, Modric and VDV, were Arsenal and Chelsea saying "Well, that takes out our competitors for a CL spot next season?" .. We simply got AVB in and he made us more of a team in my view. We may have lost out on individual talent but as a team, I really think we are better.

The more important piece of the jigsaw for me is Moyes himself. I genuinely think he has the team playing better than the some of its parts. This is a big ask for a new man to replicate, but not impossible I guess.

And although players are replaceable, Everton are hardly flush with cash and will likely replace those two players with ones of lesser quality. Lets face it we did too. Everton do not have the draw that the bigger clubs have, nor indeed the draw of the capital to attract the top talent so I would guess on balance this will leave them weaker.

But then again who knows . Maybe Martinez (for example) will come in, change their playing style, bring in a few off the radar gems and Everton end up being better than Man Utd.

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

The more important piece of the jigsaw for me is Moyes himself. I genuinely think he has the team playing better than the some of its parts. This is a big ask for a new man to replicate, but not impossible I guess.

And although players are replaceable, Everton are hardly flush with cash and will likely replace those two players with ones of lesser quality. Lets face it we did too. Everton do not have the draw that the bigger clubs have, nor indeed the draw of the capital to attract the top talent so I would guess on balance this will leave them weaker.

But then again who knows . Maybe Martinez (for example) will come in, change their playing style, bring in a few off the radar gems and Everton end up being better than Man Utd.

Well they'd almost certainly more money for Baines than what he is worth and I have no doubt they'd make profit on the £15m they paid for Fellaini. That is more than enough to strengthen a team with the right manager and scouts in place. I mean if Martinez was to come in for example, I'm sure he could quite easily tempt some of his Wigan players, like Kone for example if they need a strong striker up top, they could also get rid of Jelavic for some cash. He could also raid some QPR players who might fit into his system, Granero might do well.

It's certainly going to be tricky for Everton don't get me wrong but it's interesting, just like it will be at United.

 

[milo]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

As an aside, I don't really see Fellaini as a Utd player.

I think that Fellaini would be an excellent signing for Man Utd and strengthen the weakest area of their team.

 

[ringo]

Re: How much difference do managers make?

Well I imagine there will be a few referees not sorry to see the back of Fergie. His influence over other aspects of the game outside his own club was worth quite a lot of points a season.
I'll be surprised if we hear much about "Moyes time".

 

[Rorschach]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

I think that Fellaini would be an excellent signing for Man Utd and strengthen the weakest area of their team.

He's a very effective player, there's no doubt about it, but I think his inclusion would encourage a more aggressive, long ball style which is a departure from what they do now.

I don't think there are that many weaknesses in their team actually.

 

[milo]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

He's a very effective player, there's no doubt about it, but I think his inclusion would encourage a more aggressive, long ball style which is a departure from what they do now.

I don't think there are that many weaknesses in their team actually.

I don't think so at all, he is a brilliant box to box player. I don't think he would make United any more long ball a long ball team than Toure makes City. I think that they have also lacked a bit of physicality in the middle for a few years now.

 

[Raziel]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

He's a very effective player, there's no doubt about it, but I think his inclusion would encourage a more aggressive, long ball style which is a departure from what they do now.

I don't think there are that many weaknesses in their team actually.

Their midfield? compared to City/Cheat$ki/Bayern/Real/Barca ???

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

Don't think it will happen, but just thinking how much Ronaldo would cost if United could somehow tempt him to come back and tempt Madrid to sell him. They paid £80m for him 4 years ago. There's no doubt he's better now than 4 years ago, but he was 24 when they signed him, before the prime years of his career 27-32 ish. I reckon he would still fetch at least £80m considering what Torres went for.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Fergie: Officially Retiring - Moyes Taking Over

he's only worth as much as someone is prepared to pay (as they say) - there aren't many teams which would pay that amount of money for a player, no matter how good they are. PSG and City? maybe Chelsea? would he go to any of those sides?

if he wants out id imagine it'd end up being closer to 40 than 80, personally