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Fazio and Stambouli Needed

Jurgen the German said:
Spot on. Both look promising, but Mason should be a squad player at this point IMO. Hope he is one for the long term, but we need to upgrade on him at this point.
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Someone like schneiderlain would be a bit of an upgrade but whose to say that Mason with This season under his belt won't be at least on par?!?!?

For me we need better attacking options in the wide areas... Playera who have an impact at both ends of the pitch. For all of lamellas tracking back he doesn't offer enough at the moment going forward... And townsend today offered no support defensively leaving us woefully over run. That's the area for more to focus on first and then on better striking options
 
Bedfordspurs said:
For all of lamellas tracking back he doesn't offer enough at the moment going forward...
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....full post edit...

We had one shot on target today and it should've been scored when Harry Kane was put through by Lamela.

I think Lamela has shown invention and has put our forwards through on goal, more so than any other of our players. He would have much higher assist stats if the pass receiver had done his job .
 
wiziwig said:
....full post edit...

We had one shot on target today and it should've been scored when Harry Kane was put through by Lamela.

I think Lamela has shown invention and has put our forwards through on goal, more so than any other of our players. He would have much higher assist stats if the pass receiver had done his job .
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Yeah I know the chance. Fair enough but yo me I don't see him do that very often

The reality is our wide players/attacking 3 eriksen apart are not in the league of the top teams. We lack the real pacey player now like Mane and we don't have a super technical one like Hazard. We need to add to this area with more variety and get Lamellas work ethic across everyone
 
Both these players were on the bench last week and both were NOT EVEN ON THE BENCH this week!

Either:
1) Poch really doesn't fancy either when it comes to the crunch
2) Poch was incredibly naive today thinking we needed them vs QPR but didn't away at Manure!
3) There has been a bust-up behind the scenes and these two were involved in some way
 
I think we need to pretty much keep to the starting XI today for the rest of the season, in preparation for next season. The main thing our team needs is more experience imo. I would take finishing 7th and no European football next year, sell the dross in the summer, promote some more youth and with the players we have establishing themselves this season, we'll go into next season having a solid crack at it with only domestic games to worry about.
 
the dza said:
I think we need to pretty much keep to the starting XI today for the rest of the season, in preparation for next season. The main thing our team needs is more experience imo. I would take finishing 7th and no European football next year, sell the dross in the summer, promote some more youth and with the players we have establishing themselves this season, we'll go into next season having a solid crack at it with only domestic games to worry about.
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7th will still be EL unless Bradford/Reading/Villa win the FA cup
 
Gutter Boy said:
I felt we really missed these two today

Fazio should have started - to deal with United's long balls and to marshal the line. I really rate Dier, but our defence has looked nowhere near as secure since the Fazio-Verts partnership has been broken up. It's right to use Dier against teams that break quickly - Liverpool and Arsenal etc., but Fazio needs to play in all the other big games.

And we needed Stambouli as a 3rd CM when it became clear that Masaleb were struggling. Stambouli is the player to allow us to go 4-3-2-1 like we needed to. Like Fazio, he also seems to possess great organising skills, which we needed to cope with the creative positioning of Fellini and Blind.

Anyone know where these two are then (not on the bench when Chiriches and Paulinho were). Unfit, out of form, or out of favour?
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A really interesting post/suggestion there GB...agree re: Fazio...
 
Hindsight is always a wonderful thing so i won't attempt to be a post match expert - but there were a few people prior to the game wanting Fazios inclusion, looks like it would have been a good call.

Personally i think Dembele in alongside Bentaleb (on the left side
so as to help out the left back) and Lamela in instead of Townsend could be the way to go in these types of fixtures in the future - Walker & Rose need protection unless the opposition are happy to sit back and neither Chadli nor Townsend do that to an acceptable level. Whether that would have effected the outcome yesterday i don't know, but we need to learn from the result/performance.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Re: Fazio, perhaps, and that's certainly plausible. But the point I was making is that Ossie isn't the gold standard for judging whether a manager really wanted a player he bought/was roughly given: a lot of people said a lot of things about Poch's signings, not least of all Poch himself. Doesn't mean we should believe it, especially when dear old Andre came out and exposed the very complex world behind the bland statements a manager at this club is forced to make to the press and to people connected with it.

And as for Schneiderlin, admittedly a bit of the 'Modric' factor is still present (people are still crying out for a deep-lying playmaker a la Modric, and hence any somewhat Modric-ish player tends to be overrated), but I think you severely underestimate the player by judging him as being roughly on par with Mason, Bentaleb and Stambouli - he is worlds better than them at this point in time (hell, that stats comparison website - Squawka, I think: is an easy tool to use to compare Schneiderlin against all these players, and he comfortably comes out on top), and Southampton would be much worse off without him.

And Stambouli doesn't come close to him, imo. There is a reason he cost as little as he did.
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ah, so because Lamela cost 25 mill it means he is an absolute world beater, the same goes for Soldado who cost 26 mill, whereas Eriksen cost only 12 mill so he must be inferior as a result???

the cost of a player is not always indicative of the return you get from him.

how much did Schneiderlin cost Southampton?
 
indianspur said:
ah, so because Lamela cost 25 mill it means he is an absolute world beater, the same goes for Soldado who cost 26 mill, whereas Eriksen cost only 12 mill so he must be inferior as a result???

the cost of a player is not always indicative of the return you get from him.

how much did Schneiderlin cost Southampton?
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And remember that when he was Mason's age, he was playing in the Championship (1 season out of League 1) and when he was Bentaleb's age he was playing in an amateur championship in France.

He's actually quite a late bloomer who only really emerged last season
 
DubaiSpur said:
I've been expecting Dier to make way for Fazio for a while now.



Which is a strange line of argument to pursue, given that the general consensus on this board is that both players have performed well enough to be selected more than they have been, particularly in Fazio's case. How is that 'not delivering what he wants'?

It is just silly to assume that Poch is keeping Fazio out because he didn't deliver what Poch wants from a player in that position - barring some silly errors, he's been better than Dier. The reasons for why he's not been selected are thus more directly tied to Poch possibly not wanting either Fazio or Stambouli very much in the first place.
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why?? Look I see you are persisting with this "the Spurs managers never get the players they want" assumption and yes in some transfers that has been so, but i think this happens at many clubs. for a variety of reasons transfers break down. Im not the biggest Levy fan when it comes to transfers, but what can he do when AVB asks for Willian but Chelski come in a nab him at the last moment. Why would Willian want to join Spurs instead of Chelski from a footballing point of view, notwithstanding that his agent is a close pal and business partner of Roman Abramovch which makes the deal back then even shadier

AVB wanted Paulinho, he got him and look how that turned out. He seemed happy with the Soldado deal, well we are still waiting for Bob to show his Spanish form. We got Eriksen instead of Willian, id say that has worked out very well in the end.

AVB wanted Moutinho but it never happened. We will never know what really happened over that deal but from the outside it was very complicated with 3rd party ownership issues, his agent being Jorge Mendes who seems to be the one that decides where his players go, the high transfer fee coupled with huge wages. It didnt happen, so what we simply had to move on and get on with it.

Now onto Schneiderlin. Lets assume Poch really wanted him, told Levy so, player wanted to come, and so Levy and Baldini were left with the task of finalising the transfer with Southampton. Im sure Poch was told money is tight at Spurs (he has indicated this in a recent interview that he knows about the spending restrictions) that he can only spend what he raises from sales (as has been the case since Redknapp was in charge, we have a huge stadium project to complete after all). Apparently, Spurs believed they could get Schneiderlin for 12-15 mill but after a summer of selling 3 of their best players for immense sums Southampton decided not to sell Schneiderlin. Full stop. Even if we went in with a 25 mill offer they wouldnt have sold. What could Levy do, its just the same like when he refused to sell Modric to Chelski. The player sulked, but he had to stay and get on with it.

If Poch was so against the signings of Fazio and Stambouli he wouldnt have played them at all. Also why do you say he is against those signings and not Dier, or Davies. Maybe he wants to give Dier as much experience as possible because he feels in Dier there is a top class centre half in the making but the lad seriously needs game time. Anyway most of us understood this season was always going to be a write off with all the changes that needed to be made, just because we have done terrifically well in the meantime shouldnt make us forget that Poch and his team are laying down the foundations for success in the future, not for now. Dier is the future, just like Kane, Bentaleb, Mason, Rose, Eriksen are. Fazio has had game time, plenty of it, and has done ok in my opinion. However maybe Poch is not entirely satisfied and simply would rather persevere with the Dier/Vertonghen combo. Poch is well known for sticking by a group of players once they gain his trust. Its clear at the moment what he views as his best team and that is the one that has been selected for all our major games in recent weeks.

Stambouli? Simply Mason and Bentaleb work better together, and Poch plays two deep midfielders in a 4-2-3-1, its his system and he isnt going to change it. That doesnt mean Poch never wanted Stambouli, its just that Mason and Bentaleb have formed an excellent partnership and Stambouli at the moment cannot break it. Who knows in the future, Stambouli is still young, he has time to adjust to English football, to learn and get better, one day there may be an injury or two and he may get his chance and then its up to him to impress.

Poch knows he has a limited budget and he will simply work with Baldini, Mitchell and all the scouts to find the right players who want to play for him and Spurs. Some signings will work out, some wont. That is the same for every manager. Already Poch has shown what he is good at, working with young hungry players and making them better, this will continue and I for one am very excited by this approach. Before this season started i really fell out of love with football, last season was a joke for us and i couldnt see any hope for the future. I wasnt a big fan of Poch, I wanted De Boer instead, but I thought its only fair to give Poch a chance, like i said i was disillusioned anyway so i thought lets see what he can do. Well what has happened has completely surprised me and honestly Poch has created a side from virtually nothing, full of young homegrown talent, that for me is doing way way way better than any of us could have expected. We are vibrant, play decent football, have had some great moments and victories this season, simply Poch and his boys have made me fall back in love with football again. And i want it to continue like this, this approach, this philosophy. In a game all about expensive signings and money, we are doing it differently and i find it fascinating. Hey, even the neutrals are starting to like us again. How can anybody not
 
I support Pooch and I still believe that we are a work in progress and have seen signs this season to show we are on the right road, however for the first time this season I shook my head when I heard the team line up. We/he named the wrong team and both Fazio and Stambouli should have started ( imo), I said earlier in the week that Fellini would be the player to look out for ( and on Utd's web pages he was named as MOM), we needed Fazio to go up against him and picking Dier to do that was a risk and it backfired, the first goal he had a free run as Dier was not aware and the second goal came after Fellini won the ball with a free header ( he would not have done that against Fazio).

Once again our CM let players run at them and both the first and third goal could/should have been avoided. I have no doubt Dier will become a very good player but he needs taking out of the firing line and our best pairing ( Jan and Fazio) should get a run of games again, it worked very well earlier this season and we should go back to it ( imo).
 
Said on the other thread the issue was that Mata went onto Vertonghen and Pulled him left (as i looked), Rooney then pulled Dier out of position and caused a large space between centre back (or more often walker). We then didnt shift players along one leaving Fellani either free between Dier or Walker or Young free on the wing.

It was a purely tactic issue which is why townsend got pulled off for not tracking young and leaving that situation. Unfortunately Bentaleb then played a silly ball and we went 3-0 down and they shut-up shop.
 
imcallingbullsh*t said:
Said on the other thread the issue was that Mata went onto Vertonghen and Pulled him left (as i looked), Rooney then pulled Dier out of position and caused a large space between centre back (or more often walker). We then didnt shift players along one leaving Fellani either free between Dier or Walker or Young free on the wing.

It was a purely tactic issue which is why townsend got pulled off for not tracking young and leaving that situation. Unfortunately Bentaleb then played a silly ball and we went 3-0 down and they shut-up shop.
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Yes - I'd put it down to a particularly smart tactical ploy by LVG around the positioning of Fellini and Blind, and we were 2-0 down before we knew what was happening. We then responded, but the game was gone.

LVG is remember one of the greatest managers in the world of the last 20 years. The side he inherited is awful, but he is a master
 
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