Fair play Daniel Levy

[DeanoAustin]

So the Martin Jol with an overall win percentage of 44,97 did "very well", while AVB with a win percentage of 55 was "poor, but not a complete disaster"? To me, that doesn't make sense.

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/TottenhamHotspurManagersRecords1898-2009.html

Ah stats...if only football could be reduced to this.

Jol took over a club who hadn't finished in the top 6 since 1990 and got us 5th two seasons in a row. Jol, by comparison, had a fairly ordinary team.

AVB took over a club that had finished 4th, 5th and 4th and finished 5th. That was reasonable despite the fact he had one world class player digging us out most weeks. This season, he's been bad and getting worse.

 

[DeanoAustin]

yep, didn't initially appoint Jol as manager though did he, and Harry was brought in to keep us up, in both cases we got lucky that they achieved far more than was expected or hoped of them

Christ, you can't argue with that sort of logic.

If Harry had finished 17th I'd doubt he'd have lasted too long. That wasn't his only brief.

 

[charlietheyid]

I think the way he handles our finances is nothing short of remarkable. Maybe he did a mistake in appointing AVB in the first place, but not a lot of people thought so at the time. I, for one, don't think he has taken the wrong decision in sacking him.

Everyone thought so :lol:

Another bad move.

Bad move one after the other.

Hires **** manager... Sells big players... Hires **** manager... Sells big players.

 

[Baleforce]

Everyone thought so :lol:

Another bad move.

Bad move one after the other.

Hires **** manager... Sells big players... Hires **** manager... Sells big players.

not everyone, i was delighted

 

[Briddo1882]

Hoddle was not a success in the context of what? Today's standards?

No money to spend and kept the team in the region of 9th and 10th which was improvements on 14th and 13th at the time under GG.

We are talking two totally different eras

100% this. We had a **** squad back then, imagine what Hoddle could do with this squad?

 

[Baleforce]

hoddle spent plenty of money as I remember it, badly

Bunji/Acimovic/Postiga

 

[billyiddo]

hoddle spent plenty of money as I remember it, badly

Bunji/Acimovic/Postiga

Yep, took over a poor squad, left us with one as well. People are looking back with rose tinted glasses with regards to Hoddle

 

[charlietheyid]

When you think about it... Redknapp gets us top 4, no money to spend... Then we sack, get a guy sacked by Chelsea and who hasnt a clue, give him 150m to spend over two summers... And sack him a couple of months later...

Levy best director in the league!!! :lol:

The tickets are 80£ on stubhub, the stadium falling apart, and our shirts look so cheap.... Just to mention a few things along the way...

 

[Grays_1890]

Yep, took over a poor squad, left us with one as well. People are looking back with rose tinted glasses with regards to Hoddle

Not at all, I can look past the whole "legend" part but I can also look deeper than an argument of failure and success.

Postiga was a failure but was the right buy at the time and went on to have a good career

Acimovic won the French League after leaving us and was in on a free

Bunji cost less than 2m

 

[Robbo]

Ah stats...if only football could be reduced to this.

Jol took over a club who hadn't finished in the top 6 since 1990 and got us 5th two seasons in a row. Jol, by comparison, had a fairly ordinary team.

AVB took over a club that had finished 4th, 5th and 4th and finished 5th. That was reasonable despite the fact he had one world class player digging us out most weeks. This season, he's been bad and getting worse.

I'd take a strategical decision that considered facts and numbers, over a decision based solely on emotions and intuition every day of the week. While I've always agreed there is much more to football than statistics, you'd be foolish to disregard it completely. AVB won 55% of his games in charge of Spurs. That's not poor. That's pretty good.

We did play some dire football under AVB, but it was certainly not as bad as someone makes it out to be. Unfortunately I think there are som sky high expectations among Spurs fans that anything other than entertaining football, with lots of goals and wins every week, is unacceptable. At least in the long run. Which for some people seems to be about three-four games.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I'd take a strategical decision that considered facts and numbers, over a decision based solely on emotions and intuition every day of the week. While I've always agreed there is much more to football than statistics, you'd be foolish to disregard it completely. AVB won 55% of his games in charge of Spurs. That's not poor. That's pretty good.

We did play some dire football under AVB, but it was certainly not as bad as someone makes it out to be. Unfortunately I think there are som sky high expectations among Spurs fans that anything other than entertaining football, with lots of goals and wins every week, is unacceptable. At least in the long run. Which for some people seems to be about three-four games.

I wouldn't disregard stats completely either but if you base it completely on the sort of stats you're looking at, then you'll be reactive rather than pro-active. What do you do, wait until AVB's win percentage goes down to 30%? Wait until we start having less possession in most of our games?

Levy could see the writing on the wall. We were very lucky to win some of the games we won this season. It was obvious that when teams attacked us with a bit of pace and flair that we'd get tonked. AVB had no answer to it. He had no Bale to get us out of trouble. He had no idea which of his summer signings he would use to utilize Soldado. Levy could see that he was floundering and wouldn't get better.

There are also some stats that pointed to where we were headed:

1. Worst defeat in the league in 15 years.
2. Worst home defeat in 15 years.
3. 15 goals in 16 games.
4. Not a shot on target at home since records began.

The signs were there and the chairman acted on that rather than waited until the season was a complete write off. I applaud him for that.

 

[Grays_1890]

We did not go on a poor run like West Brom, we lost BIG to NIL in three games, that in any team would set the alarm bells ringing.....

 

[Robbo]

I wouldn't disregard stats completely either but if you base it completely on the sort of stats you're looking at, then you'll be reactive rather than pro-active. What do you do, wait until AVB's win percentage goes down to 30%? Wait until we start having less possession in most of our games?

Levy could see the writing on the wall. We were very lucky to win some of the games we won this season. It was obvious that when teams attacked us with a bit of pace and flair that we'd get tonked. AVB had no answer to it. He had no Bale to get us out of trouble. He had no idea which of his summer signings he would use to utilize Soldado. Levy could see that he was floundering and wouldn't get better.

There are also some stats that pointed to where we were headed:

1. Worst defeat in the league in 15 years.
2. Worst home defeat in 15 years.
3. 15 goals in 16 games.
4. Not a shot on target at home since records began.

The signs were there and the chairman acted on that rather than waited until the season was a complete write off. I applaud him for that.

Being reactive is sacking a manager because of a humiliating home loss, after first backing said manager to purchase £100m worth of players only months earlier, despite - results wise - doing more than all right. Yes, we've been lucky to win games this season, but we were also unlucky not to beat for instance Saudi Sportswashing Machine and ManU.

We've struggled to score goals and play well now, for a couple of months, after replacing the best player we've had in the modern era with seven foreigners who clearly needs time to adapt to the PL. Players that both Baldini, Levy and AVB obviously agreed were good purchases.

We have been underperforming and playing some unattractive football this season, but we've also grinded out results against some teams we'd struggle to beat in earlier seasons. We were shocking against City away, but who hasn't been? Then with a makeshift defence, consisting of probably our slowest central defender, a central midfielder with what, 3-4 games for the club and a limited right back at left back, we were humiliated by one of the best attacking forces in the league this season. It was bad, but it's not like we've put in such bad performances for the entire season.

I think this reactive sacking of a manager based on a shocking result is what makes this season a complete write off. Short-termism at its worst, IMO.

 

[Robbo]

We did not go on a poor run like West Brom, we lost BIG to NIL in three games, that in any team would set the alarm bells ringing.....

What do you prefer, a succession of five 0-1, 1-2 and 0-2 losses, or three 2-1 wins, a 0-5 and a 0-6?

 

[DeanoAustin]

Being reactive is sacking a manager because of a humiliating home loss, after first backing said manager to purchase £100m worth of players only months earlier, despite - results wise - doing more than all right. Yes, we've been lucky to win games this season, but we were also unlucky not to beat for instance Saudi Sportswashing Machine and ManU.

We've struggled to score goals and play well now, for a couple of months, after replacing the best player we've had in the modern era with seven foreigners who clearly needs time to adapt to the PL. Players that both Baldini, Levy and AVB obviously agreed were good purchases.

We have been underperforming and playing some unattractive football this season, but we've also grinded out results against some teams we'd struggle to beat in earlier seasons. We were shocking against City away, but who hasn't been? Then with a makeshift defence, consisting of probably our slowest central defender, a central midfielder with what, 3-4 games for the club and a limited right back at left back, we were humiliated by one of the best attacking forces in the league this season. It was bad, but it's not like we've put in such bad performances for the entire season.

I think this reactive sacking of a manager based on a shocking result is what makes this season a complete write off. Short-termism at its worst, IMO.

He didn't get sacked purely because of yesterday though. That was the straw that broke then camel's back.

This also isn't just players struggling to adjust. It's a manager who has no idea how to use those players. Who out of our attacking mids has had any chance to settle this season? AVB has chopped and changed like someone who doesn't know what they are doing. As a result, our £26 million striker has had no service and looked like a waste of money.

AVB was showing no signs of integrating the players and he was showing no signs that he could adapt his game plan when teams had figured it out. We could have persisted but it was going to get worse.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

He didn't get sacked purely because of yesterday though. That was the straw that broke then camel's back.

This also isn't just players struggling to adjust. It's a manager who has no idea how to use those players. Who out of our attacking mids has had any chance to settle this season? AVB has chopped and changed like someone who doesn't know what they are doing. As a result, our £26 million striker has had no service and looked like a waste of money.

AVB was showing no signs of integrating the players and he was showing no signs that he could adapt his game plan when teams had figured it out. We could have persisted but it was going to get worse.

How do you know after the initial 6 months that everyone says foreigners need to settle in, that we wouldn't have started to look better in attack? I thought we were using a big squad well, there's no point signing all of these players only to not play half of them.

I can also list a fair few examples of when we've gone behind / getting outplayed only for him to change things and win us the game.

 

[Jordinho]

yep, didn't initially appoint Jol as manager though did he, and Harry was brought in to keep us up, in both cases we got lucky that they achieved far more than was expected or hoped of them

This is far from a Spurs/Levy thing, That's how it goes with the majority of managerial appointments. Sacking a manager doesn't automatically reflect badly on the chairman. Unless you have unlimited amounts of money, you need to be lucky. For every successful one there's dozens of unsuccessful. There's good cases to be made for all the managers he's hired as to why they were the right choice at the time. It's almost impossible for a single manager to remain at a club for a long time without suffering the odd slump. If you can't buy your way out of trouble you either have to trust him to turn it around or make the change. With AVB I don't think that trust was there any longer.

 

[Dicko]

When you think about it... Redknapp gets us top 4, no money to spend... Then we sack, get a guy sacked by Chelsea and who hasnt a clue, give him 150m to spend over two summers... And sack him a couple of months later...

Levy best director in the league!!! :lol:

The tickets are 80£ on stubhub, the stadium falling apart, and our shirts look so cheap.... Just to mention a few things along the way...

Wow, you're taking this hard, how long you supported Spurs lol...

 

[DeanoAustin]

How do you know after the initial 6 months that everyone says foreigners need to settle in, that we wouldn't have started to look better in attack? I thought we were using a big squad well, there's no point signing all of these players only to not play half of them.

I can also list a fair few examples of when we've gone behind / getting outplayed only for him to change things and win us the game.

No one knows what would have happened. You can only make a judgement on the evidence in front of you at any given time.

We had too many attacking mids. That's obvious and probably not AVB's fault. However, it is his responsibility to get the best out of what he has. He wasn't doing it and he didn't look like ever doing it. How many changes did he make to that trio this season. Pretty much every game I'd have thought. Players don't get settled in any quicker when they are in for one game and out for two. There were no signs of any of them getting better. Consequently, there was no sign of Soldado getting any better.

 

[Jordinho]

Being reactive is sacking a manager because of a humiliating home loss, after first backing said manager to purchase £100m worth of players only months earlier, despite - results wise - doing more than all right. Yes, we've been lucky to win games this season, but we were also unlucky not to beat for instance Saudi Sportswashing Machine and ManU.

We've struggled to score goals and play well now, for a couple of months, after replacing the best player we've had in the modern era with seven foreigners who clearly needs time to adapt to the PL. Players that both Baldini, Levy and AVB obviously agreed were good purchases.

We have been underperforming and playing some unattractive football this season, but we've also grinded out results against some teams we'd struggle to beat in earlier seasons. We were shocking against City away, but who hasn't been? Then with a makeshift defence, consisting of probably our slowest central defender, a central midfielder with what, 3-4 games for the club and a limited right back at left back, we were humiliated by one of the best attacking forces in the league this season. It was bad, but it's not like we've put in such bad performances for the entire season.

I think this reactive sacking of a manager based on a shocking result is what makes this season a complete write off. Short-termism at its worst, IMO.

Managers are just as expendable as players. A change of manager can improve us short term AND keep us on track for our long term goals.