ENIC

[Bedfordspurs]

It’s a Levy problem in that he needs to decide what type of club we want to be. For the second time he’s employed a ‘trophy manager’ yet the signings aren’t that of what a results now manager want.

We have made some great young exciting signings but have a coach who won’t use them. Doesn’t matter how much Levy spends, if they aren’t players that fit the mould of what the coach wants for his style and system it’s all a waste. So if we are going to continue to go down the young and exciting players signings route then fine, Levy needs to get in a coach’s who can work with that and will be happy to - and there seems to be a few decent options out there…..

Conte has had quite a few win now signings too
But he has chosen not to use them
He has no excuse for not using richralison or bissouma to rotate his squad
We signed Perisic who was one of his trusted players… surely conte would know he can’t defend or run?
The issue that conte has isn’t his win now approach… it’s his lack of flexibility on anything.
His stubbornness will actually make him unemployable bow
Madrid and united turned down the option of getting him for that reason

 

[Robspur12]

I’m very very sure Conte isn’t the issue.

I’m absolutely adamant Levy isn’t.

It’s the ones actually kicking the ball around.

Only the players? They are not the constant of the last 20 years. Managers change, Players change, who's in charge and making the decisions around the way the club is run has remained the same.

I see now why you want Conte to stay because you think his problem is only with the players. That is mis reading the presser imho. Him and the board are not and never have been compatible.

 

[parklane1]

Fans turning makes no difference
£4B does
It’s that simple
You always like to think the fans have some say or an impact… get to the ground and see for yourself. The protests have to date been 30 chavs behind some scrawled banners
Most fans that go don’t really have an issue with ENIC. We all want success and we pay to be entertained
Enic can’t make the latter happen but can empty someone to do that better than this bloke
They are backing the team now within the means they have …

A few muppets waving flags is never going to shift the owners you are spot on, we have players in the team who have been there a long time ( how many times did we fail in the cup games under Poch, i have lost count) and the mentality of them is they are not WINNERS. And as you say the most noisy ENIC out crew are on line and do not even go to matches. There is no doubt there are players in the squad who have not got the right mentality and i said the same during Poch time here and got a lot of disagrees from some on here. Until we turn that around we will aleways fail to win things.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

A few muppets waving flags is never going to shift the owners you are spot on, we have players in the team who have been there a long time ( how many times did we fail in the cup games under Poch, i have lost count) and the mentality of them is they are not WINNERS. And as you say the most noisy ENIC out crew are on line and do not even go to matches. There is no doubt there are players in the squad who have not got the right mentality and i said the same during Poch time here and got a lot of disagrees from some on here. Until we turn that around we will aleways fail to win things.

The ones I know locally either never go and have never really gone
Or are old school hooliganism types who go to Tottenham and go to the local pubs with their flat caps and bags of coke

 

[Grays_1890]

The ones I know locally either never go and have never really gone
Or are old school hooliganism types who go to Tottenham and go to the local pubs with their flat caps and bags of coke

There is definitely an old school hooligan element. In the Covid restriction protest 350 odd turned up because it was a day out, all drinking doing coke on the high street outside the heritage museum next to the club shop. Lasted about 45 mins and then all in the pubs to get on it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

There is definitely an old school hooligan element. In the Covid restriction protest 350 odd turned up because it was a day out, all drinking doing coke on the high street outside the heritage museum next to the club shop. Lasted about 45 mins and then all in the pubs to get on it.

Yep
Stella cans left everywhere
Very different type of fan

 

[Grays_1890]

Yep
Stella cans left everywhere
Very different type of fan

Not knocking them totally, they turned up, but it is telling that they turned up for a tinkle up when it was restricted but have not protested on a match day on the high street

There is also an element that have created flags mocking fans who don't agree with them along with constantly attacking fans online. For me thats bully boy element and frankly a bunch of cnuts

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not knocking them totally, they turned up, but it is telling that they turned up for a tinkle up when it was restricted but have not protested on a match day on the high street

There is also an element that have created flags mocking fans who don't agree with them along with constantly attacking fans online. For me thats bully boy element and frankly a bunch of cnuts

The ones I know are the selectively racist ones too, so as I say, an odd bunch

 

[Finney Is Back]

I've got no real problem with ENIC owning the club. I just want us to employ a better CEO.

 

[Raziel]

I've got no real problem with ENIC owning the club. I just want us to employ a better CEO.

Within the same constraints?

 

[alekaras]

Only the players? They are not the constant of the last 20 years. Managers change, Players change, who's in charge and making the decisions around the way the club is run has remained the same.

I see now why you want Conte to stay because you think his problem is only with the players. That is mis reading the presser imho. Him and the board are not and never have been compatible.

If we had the same financial strength for the past 20 years, were a regular top 4-5 finisher and had made CL for 15 of those 20 years, and still had the same results (finishing 3rd/4th and winning just one league cup), I'd buy the "it's the board's fault" argument. But wtf were people expecting? Just because we lucked out with the 2010-12 squad and with Poch for 3-4 years, doesn't mean we all of a sudden were able to spend like United. We were then what Brighton is now and I don't think anyone will be expecting Brighton to spend Chelsea money in 3-4 years if they maintain their current form. They'll still be Brighton until they build a new 60,000 seat stadium and expand their global brand. Once they have done that, then the expectations can and should be raised.

If you want to blame the board, blame them for not setting up a structure like Brighton. Totally fair. But to expect we would be competing for players alongside City, Chelsea, and United before we got to the point we are now is plain delusional. (and even now we're marginally competing)

So yeah, let's back Conte (or whomever), but let's also understand that, even in our current better financial state, we can only do so to a point. And if Conte thinks that that's lacking ambition, fudge him. (I mean, he wanted a broke Inter to spend loads!) There are other managers that would have gotten much more out of the 200+ million we spent for him than he did.

 

[Yiddo]

If we had the same financial strength for the past 20 years, were a regular top 4-5 finisher and had made CL for 15 of those 20 years, and still had the same results (finishing 3rd/4th and winning just one league cup), I'd buy the "it's the board's fault" argument. But wtf were people expecting? Just because we lucked out with the 2010-12 squad and with Poch for 3-4 years, doesn't mean we all of a sudden were able to spend like United. We were then what Brighton is now and I don't think anyone will be expecting Brighton to spend Chelsea money in 3-4 years if they maintain their current form. They'll still be Brighton until they build a new 60,000 seat stadium and expand their global brand. Once they have done that, then the expectations can and should be raised.

If you want to blame the board, blame them for not setting up a structure like Brighton. Totally fair. But to expect we would be competing for players alongside City, Chelsea, and United before we got to the point we are now is plain delusional. (and even now we're marginally competing)

So yeah, let's back Conte (or whomever), but let's also understand that, even in our current better financial state, we can only do so to a point. And if Conte thinks that that's lacking ambition, fudge him. (I mean, he wanted a broke Inter to spend loads!) There are other managers that would have gotten much more out of the 200+ million we spent for him than he did.

They won't admit it but all of the Levy / Enic out phalanx want a Qatar sugar daddy who will turn us into the next City.

 

[Raziel]

They won't admit it but all of the Levy / Enic out phalanx want a Qatar sugar daddy who will turn us into the next City.

Yep, which is why after 275 pages, the answer we return to the same answer

- ENIC runs a self funded model, and there is a legitimate statement that said model will not get us top level success (it probably should have got us a trophy or two) and will not allow us to really compete with money doping clubs.

- Somehow, operating within the rules, trying to run a sustainable model that has lifted the club consistently over 20 years to the point we have probably ceiling out under this model, is something to be mocked, brick on

- So instead of acknowledging the PL model is broken and full of cheaters, and some want us to join the cheaters Instead, the painting that ENIC/Levy are the worse owners ever and destroying the club (and throw in some antisemitic brick for free) and anyone who disagree is an idiot, apologists, etc.

 

[Robspur12]

If we had the same financial strength for the past 20 years, were a regular top 4-5 finisher and had made CL for 15 of those 20 years, and still had the same results (finishing 3rd/4th and winning just one league cup), I'd buy the "it's the board's fault" argument. But wtf were people expecting? Just because we lucked out with the 2010-12 squad and with Poch for 3-4 years, doesn't mean we all of a sudden were able to spend like United. We were then what Brighton is now and I don't think anyone will be expecting Brighton to spend Chelsea money in 3-4 years if they maintain their current form. They'll still be Brighton until they build a new 60,000 seat stadium and expand their global brand. Once they have done that, then the expectations can and should be raised.

If you want to blame the board, blame them for not setting up a structure like Brighton. Totally fair. But to expect we would be competing for players alongside City, Chelsea, and United before we got to the point we are now is plain delusional. (and even now we're marginally competing)

So yeah, let's back Conte (or whomever), but let's also understand that, even in our current better financial state, we can only do so to a point. And if Conte thinks that that's lacking ambition, fudge him. (I mean, he wanted a broke Inter to spend loads!) There are other managers that would have gotten much more out of the 200+ million we spent for him than he did.

I agree with you. Just making a point that you cannot just blame the players as Conte was trying to do, for not winning anything in the last 20 years. Every one shares part of the "blame."

 

[Raziel]

I agree with you. Just making a point that you cannot just blame the players as Conte was trying to do, for not winning anything in the last 20 years. Every one shares part of the "blame."

Everyone except Conte (in his mind)

 

[Grays_1890]

Yep, which is why after 275 pages, the answer we return to the same answer

- ENIC runs a self funded model, and there is a legitimate statement that said model will not get us top level success (it probably should have got us a trophy or two) and will not allow us to really compete with money doping clubs.

- Somehow, operating within the rules, trying to run a sustainable model that has lifted the club consistently over 20 years to the point we have probably ceiling out under this model, is something to be mocked, brick on

- So instead of acknowledging the PL model is broken and full of cheaters, and some want us to join the cheaters Instead, the painting that ENIC/Levy are the worse owners ever and destroying the club (and throw in some antisemitic brick for free) and anyone who disagree is an idiot, apologists, etc.

Spot on

Enic and Levy have made mistakes that have been debated on here for years, bad spending, bad manager appointments, half time sackings of Jol. But people wanting to blame them for absolute everything are churning an agenda IMO. There are also inflated lies and rumours that are added to the fire which when questioned suddenly makes you "naïve"

As I said on another page we average 1 domestic trophy ever 10 years of our history so they are trending under our average by 1, the irony that the expectation on more with them is because of them is lost on many. The blame on them for lack of success is also misguided due to the fact we have been 13 SF or Finals in 20 years, thats more last 4s in a short period of such a period of time in our history, in fact we have been to 11 in 15 years so this rhetoric that we prioritise leagues over cups and somehow Levy is to blame for the lack of cup success is absolute BS and our expectations of better standards within the league ACTUALLY pulls up the entire standards of the club including the cups and we have gone deeper, more often as a result, thats an absolute fact that can't be unpicked with misquotes from Poch or the fact Conte fcuked us this year in them. We can debate why we lost those important games but it can't be attributed to Enic wanting success in the league over cup SFs and Finals (even if you believed Jose sacking proved it it does not explain the final loses that came before).

I get people look for spacegoats on losses and things that go wrong but the reality is we spend more, we finish higher and we go deeper in domestic and European trophies more often than we did before, it is actually balanced IMO to expect the managers and players to sometimes come forward and contribute in the important games and not always default back to the board to explain the failures but thats just me, like I have said before, they control alot and we can blame them for the lack of quality at times, we can't blame them for Mark Hughes at nearly 40 running the final in centre midfield, Prince Boeteng single handily beating an arrogant side, Foster having penalty sides written on his water bottle, Sissoko and Dembele brain farts or Son and his wonderous WB performance....etc etc etc

 

[nelto]

Spot on

Enic and Levy have made mistakes that have been debated on here for years, bad spending, bad manager appointments, half time sackings of Jol. But people wanting to blame them for absolute everything are churning an agenda IMO. There are also inflated lies and rumours that are added to the fire which when questioned suddenly makes you "naïve"

As I said on another page we average 1 domestic trophy ever 10 years of our history so they are trending under our average by 1, the irony that the expectation on more with them is because of them is lost on many. The blame on them for lack of success is also misguided due to the fact we have been 13 SF or Finals in 20 years, thats more last 4s in a short period of such a period of time in our history, in fact we have been to 11 in 15 years so this rhetoric that we prioritise leagues over cups and somehow Levy is to blame for the lack of cup success is absolute BS and our expectations of better standards within the league ACTUALLY pulls up the entire standards of the club including the cups and we have gone deeper, more often as a result, thats an absolute fact that can't be unpicked with misquotes from Poch or the fact Conte fcuked us this year in them. We can debate why we lost those important games but it can't be attributed to Enic wanting success in the league over cup SFs and Finals (even if you believed Jose sacking proved it it does not explain the final loses that came before).

I get people look for spacegoats on losses and things that go wrong but the reality is we spend more, we finish higher and we go deeper in domestic and European trophies more often than we did before, it is actually balanced IMO to expect the managers and players to sometimes come forward and contribute in the important games and not always default back to the board to explain the failures but thats just me, like I have said before, they control alot and we can blame them for the lack of quality at times, we can't blame them for Mark Hughes at nearly 40 running the final in centre midfield, Prince Boeteng single handily beating an arrogant side, Foster having penalty sides written on his water bottle, Sissoko and Dembele brain farts or Son and his wonderous WB performance....etc etc etc

Great post!
(I’d still take a sneaky wee side investment of a billion from whom ever though )

 

[alekaras]

Yep, which is why after 275 pages, the answer we return to the same answer

- ENIC runs a self funded model, and there is a legitimate statement that said model will not get us top level success (it probably should have got us a trophy or two) and will not allow us to really compete with money doping clubs.

- Somehow, operating within the rules, trying to run a sustainable model that has lifted the club consistently over 20 years to the point we have probably ceiling out under this model, is something to be mocked, brick on

- So instead of acknowledging the PL model is broken and full of cheaters, and some want us to join the cheaters Instead, the painting that ENIC/Levy are the worse owners ever and destroying the club (and throw in some antisemitic brick for free) and anyone who disagree is an idiot, apologists, etc.

Well said. My hope is that the new set of financial fair play (or whatever it's called) rules that kick in next season will level the playing field even more. And, as you outlined above, we would be extremely well positioned in this new model to put ourselves more on par with the bigger clubs.

 

[Lilbaz]

Well said. My hope is that the new set of financial fair play (or whatever it's called) rules that kick in next season will level the playing field even more. And, as you outlined above, we would be extremely well positioned in this new model to put ourselves more on par with the bigger clubs.

They already started in jan. Just any punishments will be next year.

 

[billyiddo]

They already started in jan. Just any punishments will be next year.

That's when we see if the new rules have teeth