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Dele interview

DeanoAustin said:
Which is a fair point. The stat shouldn't be used in isolation. But I was using it to illustrate a wider point - his form fell off a cliff at that time and it never came back. Therefore, to blame Jose for his descent is unfair - the rot set in long before Jose joined the club.
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Sorry, I am going to vigorously debate this.

Form is temporary, class is permanent, and the player had enough in the bank to warrant individual man-management rather than Mourinho's old school 'pick a weak one or two and rinse them.' It is actually disgraceful. This 'man-ager', a 'winner', allowed a gifted and tremendous asset to drift and rot on his watch because he is not a 'man manager' more than he has 'his way'? That's an asset which was valued at around 70-80 million only a season earlier BTW. Again, disgraceful.

Dele is responsible for himself, something he noted clearly, but Mourinho did not do his job and try to manage the situation when there was a chance to retrieve it. My hunch is he knew Dele was one of Poch's boys, and thought he'd teach him a lesson with tough love flimflam. That works with some, but it does not work universally.

Again mate, in the spirit of debate and discussion.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Had a look from January. He got injured around that time but as you come into March and April you can see a lot of mixed reaction to his performances. A good few posters were really slating him by the time Ajax came around with Steff predominantly defending him.
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:D...indeed...ah well, let's hope he continues his recovery. Respect your view and an important discussion IMO. Be well mate
 
thfcsteff said:
Sorry, I am going to vigorously debate this.

Form is temporary, class is permanent, and the player had enough in the bank to warrant individual man-management rather than Mourinho's old school 'pick a weak one or two and rinse them.' It is actually disgraceful. This 'man-ager', a 'winner', allowed a gifted and tremendous asset to drift and rot on his watch because he is not a 'man manager' more than he has 'his way'? That's an asset which was valued at around 70-80 million only a season earlier BTW. Again, disgraceful.

Dele is responsible for himself, something he noted clearly, but Mourinho did not do his job and try to manage the situation when there was a chance to retrieve it. My hunch is he knew Dele was one of Poch's boys, and thought he'd teach him a lesson with tough love flimflam. That works with some, but it does not work universally.

Again mate, in the spirit of debate and discussion.
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No need to apologise or explain Steff, I respect your view even if I disagree.

I didn't like some of Jose's treatment of Dele. But I think it's a stretch to attribute Dele's loss of form or problems to Jose. The rot had set in before Jose got here and Jose's job was to put the best eleven on the pitch to win games and he didn't believe Dele was one of those eleven. Dele was suffering for other reasons which he himself said that only he could sort out. He went through four other managers before he hit the point where he was ready to address those problems.
 
DeanoAustin said:
No need to apologise or explain Steff, I respect your view even if I disagree.

I didn't like some of Jose's treatment of Dele. But I think it's a stretch to attribute Dele's loss of form or problems to Jose. The rot had set in before Jose got here and Jose's job was to put the best eleven on the pitch to win games and he didn't believe Dele was one of those eleven. Dele was suffering for other reasons which he himself said that only he could sort out. He went through four other managers before he hit the point where he was ready to address those problems.
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Pretty much how i see it as well, Jose had his faults for sure but Ali has to take his blame for his form dropping off a cliff because as you say it was happening before Jose came here.
 
DeanoAustin said:
No need to apologise or explain Steff, I respect your view even if I disagree.

I didn't like some of Jose's treatment of Dele. But I think it's a stretch to attribute Dele's loss of form or problems to Jose. The rot had set in before Jose got here and Jose's job was to put the best eleven on the pitch to win games and he didn't believe Dele was one of those eleven. Dele was suffering for other reasons which he himself said that only he could sort out. He went through four other managers before he hit the point where he was ready to address those problems.
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I don't blame Jose in isolation but like I said earlier I don't think his level of part time phycology helped Dele and importantly I think the time for managers to use their "skills" in mind games is at an end or at least should. I don't think you can be going into the press and slaughtering players, I don't think calling them lazy in public view is helpful.

Again not blaming Jose here,
 
Grays_1890 said:
I don't blame Jose in isolation but like I said earlier I don't think his level of part time phycology helped Dele and importantly I think the time for managers to use their "skills" in mind games is at an end or at least should. I don't think you can be going into the press and slaughtering players, I don't think calling them lazy in public view is helpful.

Again not blaming Jose here,
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To be fair to Jose, I don’t know if he intended to publicly call him lazy. Maybe he was playing to the camera, maybe not but he apologised the next week for it and the editors decided to leave it out.

However, I do agree with you on managers publicly slating players. I’ve never liked it. Didn’t like it when Tactics Tim did it, didn’t like it when Conte did it. I know those two didn’t name players but, for me, their rants weren’t helpful. However, it finds favour amongst fans because “these lads need telling and not mollycoddling”. But that’s a whole different discussion anyway.
 
DeanoAustin said:
To be fair to Jose, I don’t know if he intended to publicly call him lazy. Maybe he was playing to the camera, maybe not but he apologised the next week for it and the editors decided to leave it out.

However, I do agree with you on managers publicly slating players. I’ve never liked it. Didn’t like it when Tactics Tim did it, didn’t like it when Conte did it. I know those two didn’t name players but, for me, their rants weren’t helpful. However, it finds favour amongst fans because “these lads need telling and not mollycoddling”. But that’s a whole different discussion anyway.
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Agree mate
 
parklane1 said:
Pretty much how i see it as well, Jose had his faults for sure but Ali has to take his blame for his form dropping off a cliff because as you say it was happening before Jose came here.
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I think what is frustrating me about this, is that nowhere am I saying Mourinho is responsible for Dele's life. What I am saying is he failed to not only help the kid at a time when most could see he needed it, but also (on a club side) he failed to show any initiative or skill-set in reclaiming a valuable asset. Instead, his approach led to a further decline. I think we agree on the core fact (Dele's life is Dele's) but agree to disagree on the rest.
 
DeanoAustin said:
To be fair to Jose, I don’t know if he intended to publicly call him lazy. Maybe he was playing to the camera, maybe not but he apologised the next week for it and the editors decided to leave it out.

However, I do agree with you on managers publicly slating players. I’ve never liked it. Didn’t like it when Tactics Tim did it, didn’t like it when Conte did it. I know those two didn’t name players but, for me, their rants weren’t helpful. However, it finds favour amongst fans because “these lads need telling and not mollycoddling”. But that’s a whole different discussion anyway.
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I think that is a very fair point mate. I would expect a wily character like Mourinho to know every step and every possibility, but you could be right and perhaps he was caught out. I have to say it was a terrible idea from the start (the doc) and Pochettino was in big opposition to the way it was presented ...
 
thfcsteff said:
I think what is frustrating me about this, is that nowhere am I saying Mourinho is responsible for Dele's life. What I am saying is he failed to not only help the kid at a time when most could see he needed it, but also (on a club side) he failed to show any initiative or skill-set in reclaiming a valuable asset. Instead, his approach led to a further decline. I think we agree on the core fact (Dele's life is Dele's) but agree to disagree on the rest.
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I'd go further than that Steff and say that the club as a whole failed to help Dele. Surely there are therapists/psychologists at the club monitoring player behaviour etc?
 
Mulletperm said:
I'd go further than that Steff and say that the club as a whole failed to help Dele. Surely there are therapists/psychologists at the club monitoring player behaviour etc?
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I certainly hope the club were offering help to Dele and were aware, at least on some level, of his problems. How much they were aware of the sleeping pill issue we don't know. Maybe the club could/should have spotted signs and done more.
But, and I speak with experience of a family member with an addiction, it is nigh on impossible to truly help someone who is unable to, or does not want to, help themselves.

I hope in any case that the club would now at least look back, with the benefit of hindsight, and review whether they could have done more to help, if only to be better prepared to help other players who might be struggling.
 
I watch that and remember the player we had and can’t he’ll think (hear not head) that he would brilliant under Ange ball okaying the 3rd man runner role that we may be trying to get Gallagher in for
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I watch that and remember the player we had and can’t he’ll think (hear not head) that he would brilliant under Ange ball okaying the 3rd man runner role that we may be trying to get Gallagher in for
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It's a romantic and unrealistic notion for me to write off whatever Everton may owe us. I'd love him to get fit and come back. He's still only 28. Imagine if Ange could turn him back into the player he once was. Ah dreams...
 
nelto said:
It's a romantic and unrealistic notion for me to write off whatever Everton may owe us. I'd love him to get fit and come back. He's still only 28. Imagine if Ange could turn him back into the player he once was. Ah dreams...
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Everton don’t owe us anything now as he can’t play the amount of games needed for a fee
 
Is he still actively at Everton, fit and training right now?
Or has he already been released and waiting to join a team for next season?
 
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