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Dele Alli

That's the thing: a young player (Oduwa, for example) would probably be more willing to accept being a rotation option for Lamela than a 27-year old PL-proven player with national team responsibilities looking for his first (and probably last, given the trajectory of his career so far) big contract. It's the same reason I think Austin will likely move elsewhere (and in his case he'd be a rotation option for a direct opponent for the NT spot he's eyeing, so a Spurs move would likely be even less appealing to him).

I agree wholeheartedly with Pritchard being Chadli's understudy, and something similar would work for the right as well: however, Mirallas would ask for games, which we're going to be obliged to give him if he does come. I think we can get him if we want him, but we'd need to promise him regular football.

my issue with a young player coming in behind Lamela is that he isn't a consistent performer yet and still has some developing to do himself - with no guarantees that will happen, by having an experienced player as an option who theoretically should be able to come in and perform to a decent level without too much fuss then we reduce the possible fall out should Lamela fail to improve this season.

which you wouldn't necessarily get with a young understudy who would possibly need time to get up to speed himself.
 
my issue with a young player coming in behind Lamela is that he isn't a consistent performer yet and still has some developing to do himself - with no guarantees that will happen, by having an experienced player as an option who theoretically should be able to come in and perform to a decent level without too much fuss then we reduce the possible fall out should Lamela fail to improve this season.

Oh, absolutely. I have no illusions about the reality that someone like Oduwa would probably struggle to match the quality Mirallas could provide as a rotation option for Lamela: that's why I still think we should go for Mirallas as a rotation option for both the right wing and up front (which he can absolutely do, judging by his tenure at Olympiakos). That would guarantee Mirallas enough games in both positions to probably get away with calling his Spurs career a first-team one. However, if we're not willing to do that, then I don't see any visible options for the backup role to Lamela beyond promoting Oduwa or just keeping Townsend around: like it or not, we're going to keep bashing away with Lamela regularly in the side until he becomes a success, given his huge price tag.
 
Oh, absolutely. I have no illusions about the reality that someone like Oduwa would probably struggle to match the quality Mirallas could provide as a rotation option for Lamela: that's why I still think we should go for Mirallas as a rotation option for both the right wing and up front (which he can absolutely do, judging by his tenure at Olympiakos). That would guarantee Mirallas enough games in both positions to probably get away with calling his Spurs career a first-team one. However, if we're not willing to do that, then I don't see any visible options for the backup role to Lamela beyond promoting Oduwa or just keeping Townsend around: like it or not, we're going to keep bashing away with Lamela regularly in the side until he becomes a success, given his huge price tag.

i think it was you who made a post about Llorente and there being enough game time for him to come in as second choice to Kane and still be plenty involved, could that not be the case in this situation? there's also the possibility that Lamela can come in to the middle for games to rest Eriksen, giving Mirallas more game time (similar to the argument that Kane can drop back to allow Llorente more game time)
 
Agreed, but my whole point was that the only way Mirallas could get sufficient playing time (imo) was if he could also cover up front effectively (as I think he can, judging by his spell as centre-forward for Olympiakos): surely you'd agree that Chadli, Eriksen, Lamela, Pritchard, and Mason are already plenty of options to have in AM, without shoehorning Mirallas in to only act as a replacement for Townsend (i.e, Lamela's backup).
.

With him being a striker option as well, then yes, without doubt.
Even without, I still think there will be enough games and enough question marks over Lamela and Pritchard and the consistency of Eriksen and Pritchard to make it worth while
At the very least, it means we go into every PL, EL & FA cup game with a really strong team.
Make the players fight for the places.
 
I don't think you quite understood the thrust of my post, braine. :) Those stats provide evidence for the assertion that Bentaleb wasn't being used as a deep-lying playmaker last season: on average, his pass length was the shortest out of all the players mentioned there, which indicates that he sat quite deep but only passed it forward a minimal distance. Similarly, on average, he completed the fewest forward passes of any of those players (Save for McCarthy), made the fewest key passes (again, save for McCarthy) and created the fewest chances (ditto). That isn't 'dictating play', not by any appreciable measure.

I'm not disagreeing with Bentaleb being the deeper of the two last season: I completely agree that he was. However, my argument was (and firmly remains) that he a) only did so out of necessity due to Mason's roaming (i.e, he wasn't trying to be a deep-lying playmaker), and b) played more as a B2B midfielder from that position, bursting forward on the rare occasions where Mason stayed back and taking on (and beating) players while bombing forward. That's what I believe his best role is in the future, not a pure DM and certainly not a deep-lying playmaker role. Hence, I don't want a defensively indisciplined roamer like Mason next to him next season, as I feel that would inhibit his potential to become a great B2B mdfielder.

I don't buy it that Bentaleb was sitting back because Mason lacked discipline. I don't believe that Mason would have been picked so frequently if he was not following orders.
 
i think it was you who made a post about Llorente and there being enough game time for him to come in as second choice to Kane and still be plenty involved, could that not be the case in this situation? there's also the possibility that Lamela can come in to the middle for games to rest Eriksen, giving Mirallas more game time (similar to the argument that Kane can drop back to allow Llorente more game time)

Yeah: my argument was based on Kane and Llorente occasionally being played together, with Kane at #10 (a false nine, essentially) and Llorente further afield as the big target man drawing defenders away from Harry. In that scenario (which I think is one that is very conceivable should Llorente be signed), I think they'd both get enough games to go away happy, especially when you consider that Kane will likely move up the ranks and leave behind the chore of playing up front in the EL group stages/FA Cup Third or Fourth Round/League Cup games, which would then be picked up by Llorente. It would also not overly disturb the pecking order in terms of rotation options for positions, as Kane dropping to pick up Eriksen's role only means that the endlessly adaptable Eriksen would likely be shifted right to accommodate this change, with the 'original' backup for the right wing slot (Townsend) missing out in terms of game-time: however, that isn't a great loss, imo.

With Mirallas, it's a bit more complicated. If Lamela moves into the centre to accommodate Mirallas on the right, then, apart from Eriksen being rested, you'd also have the scenario where either Alli or Mason (one of whom will probably end up being our CAM rotation option this season if a new DM comes in) would suffer from a lack of games as the 'natural' pecking order in terms of first and second elevens is disrupted to accommodate this change. If Mirallas is used on the left in place of Chadli, then Pritchard won't get game time next season. If Mirallas himself is played at #10, the first problem above arises again.

My ideal scenario for any potential Mirallas signing would be one in which he's the first-choice rotation option for Kane up front in the PL (i.e, the super sub or injury-enforced switch) while also being the starting RW for EL/FA Cup/LC/ lesser Premier League games. I can't see him fitting into any other scenario without upsetting the first-team prospects of some AM talent in our ranks (could be either Pritchard, Mason or Alli).
 
I don't buy it that Bentaleb was sitting back because Mason lacked discipline. I don't believe that Mason would have been picked so frequently if he was not following orders.

Oh, I'm sure he was following orders: I'm just also fairly certain that those orders only involved him pressing as hard as possible and running back into a DM position when possession was turned over, with initiating attacks/sparking play at every opportunity being his main brief. For better or for worse, I think Poch genuinely gave up on solidifying the DM zone last season in favor of outscoring and out-attacking the opposition, given Mason's habitual wandering and positional indiscipline: and, once he'd made that decision, I think some other decisions (like sidelining Stambouli, for example) became easier to make. Imo, of course.
 
Yeah: my argument was based on Kane and Llorente occasionally being played together, with Kane at #10 (a false nine, essentially) and Llorente further afield as the big target man drawing defenders away from Harry. In that scenario (which I think is one that is very conceivable should Llorente be signed), I think they'd both get enough games to go away happy, especially when you consider that Kane will likely move up the ranks and leave behind the chore of playing up front in the EL group stages/FA Cup Third or Fourth Round/League Cup games, which would then be picked up by Llorente. It would also not overly disturb the pecking order in terms of rotation options for positions, as Kane dropping to pick up Eriksen's role only means that the endlessly adaptable Eriksen would likely be shifted right to accommodate this change, with the 'original' backup for the right wing slot (Townsend) missing out in terms of game-time: however, that isn't a great loss, imo.

With Mirallas, it's a bit more complicated. If Lamela moves into the centre to accommodate Mirallas on the right, then, apart from Eriksen being rested, you'd also have the scenario where either Alli or Mason (one of whom will probably end up being our CAM rotation option this season if a new DM comes in) would suffer from a lack of games as the 'natural' pecking order in terms of first and second elevens is disrupted to accommodate this change. If Mirallas is used on the left in place of Chadli, then Pritchard won't get game time next season. If Mirallas himself is played at #10, the first problem above arises again.

My ideal scenario for any potential Mirallas signing would be one in which he's the first-choice rotation option for Kane up front in the PL (i.e, the super sub or injury-enforced switch) while also being the starting RW for EL/FA Cup/LC/ lesser Premier League games. I can't see him fitting into any other scenario without upsetting the first-team prospects of some AM talent in our ranks (could be either Pritchard, Mason or Alli).

i think Alli (getting back to the thread topic) is more of a CM than a ACM and see him as cover for Bentaleb, so i wouldn't expect Lamela moving central to impact on his involvement much, if at all. Mason, maybe will be moved forward as cover for Eriksen next season but im much more inclined to think he'll be used as cover for whoever we sign as first choice CM (seeings as that's where he was used last season) and lastly my concern isn't with Mirallas getting enough game time, it's about having the required options in the squad - if he is happy to sign for us as competition for Lamela and that alone then the fact he might not get enough game time is no real issue is it, really? we can always move him on in a year or two at no real loss if he's unhappy as he's seems to be available on the cheap
 
DUbai, why would getting a new CM in mean Alli or Mason becomes CAM option? That would leave us with 3 CM's... I'm pretty confident that out choices will be Bentaleb and NEW CM, with Mason and either Alli or even another CM.

I know you've mentioned Demebele, and although I agree he's far better as a CM than mason (Chelsea he as immense), he was often played in the 3 behind towards the end, Mason wasn't. If Mason was seen for this position over Dembele why wouldn't he have trie sit last season? Makes no sense. It isn't happening.

I personally hope we keep Dembele for the 3 behind Kane, but also extra depth to drop into the two CM positions if Alli isn't up to it or we have serious injuries. (Or porch finally realises mason isn't good enough #witchhunt)
 
Mason could do a job as the CAM if Eriksen needed a rest or just for a switch in tactics with Eriksen moving out to the left. I'd still imagine that he'd be 3rd choice for one of the two spots in front of the back 4
 
I don't think you quite understood the thrust of my post, braine. :) Those stats provide evidence for the assertion that Bentaleb wasn't being used as a deep-lying playmaker last season: on average, his pass length was the shortest out of all the players mentioned there, which indicates that he sat quite deep but only passed it forward a minimal distance. Similarly, on average, he completed the fewest forward passes of any of those players (Save for McCarthy), made the fewest key passes (again, save for McCarthy) and created the fewest chances (ditto). That isn't 'dictating play', not by any appreciable measure.

I'm not disagreeing with Bentaleb being the deeper of the two last season: I completely agree that he was. However, my argument was (and firmly remains) that he a) only did so out of necessity due to Mason's roaming (i.e, he wasn't trying to be a deep-lying playmaker), and b) played more as a B2B midfielder from that position, bursting forward on the rare occasions where Mason stayed back and taking on (and beating) players while bombing forward. That's what I believe his best role is in the future, not a pure DM and certainly not a deep-lying playmaker role. Hence, I don't want a defensively indisciplined roamer like Mason next to him next season, as I feel that would inhibit his potential to become a great B2B mdfielder.

I would guess a large proportion of Pirlo's key passes and chances created were from set pieces. Distance of passing compared to Pirlo most will fall short, for obvious reasons, but those long passes from Pirlo is not the only way to play as a deep playmaker. Comparing Bentaleb for us with Schneiderlin for Southampton in terms of length of passing and expect to learn something seems strange to me, we're playing fairly different styles of football...

Actually, add Carrick to your comparison and I think you'll find that Carrick scores lower than Bentaleb on chances created, key passes, successful take ons and successful take on %. Would you thus conclude that Carrick is not a deep playmaker because of these stats?

I just don't buy your claim that those are "every deep playmaker related stats". Or the premise that you can judge if a player is a deep playmaker or not by comparing those stats between players in different teams. You really have to add some reasoning to this.

Both Schneiderlin and McCarthy do not always play as their deepest midfielder (Wanyama, Barry and Besic all play that role at least some of the time). Why would you not expect those players with more attacking freedom to score higher on key passes and chances created? Why would you not expect both pass length and forward passes to be influenced as much by the team style and the player's style as by if they play a deep playmaker role or not?

Can I bring other players playing in other leagues for teams with other styles and formations into the comparison? I assume so since Pirlo is apparently a valid comparison... How about Modric and Busquets?
 
I would guess a large proportion of Pirlo's key passes and chances created were from set pieces. Distance of passing compared to Pirlo most will fall short, for obvious reasons, but those long passes from Pirlo is not the only way to play as a deep playmaker. Comparing Bentaleb for us with Schneiderlin for Southampton in terms of length of passing and expect to learn something seems strange to me, we're playing fairly different styles of football...

Actually, add Carrick to your comparison and I think you'll find that Carrick scores lower than Bentaleb on chances created, key passes, successful take ons and successful take on %. Would you thus conclude that Carrick is not a deep playmaker because of these stats?

I just don't buy your claim that those are "every deep playmaker related stats". Or the premise that you can judge if a player is a deep playmaker or not by comparing those stats between players in different teams. You really have to add some reasoning to this.

Both Schneiderlin and McCarthy do not always play as their deepest midfielder (Wanyama, Barry and Besic all play that role at least some of the time). Why would you not expect those players with more attacking freedom to score higher on key passes and chances created? Why would you not expect both pass length and forward passes to be influenced as much by the team style and the player's style as by if they play a deep playmaker role or not?

Can I bring other players playing in other leagues for teams with other styles and formations into the comparison? I assume so since Pirlo is apparently a valid comparison... How about Modric and Busquets?

So, Carrick, Busquets and Modric, izzat it? No problem, mate, let's take a gander at Squawka....

Untitled.png


Now, before we analyze this, do note that successful take-ons per game and the percentage of take-ons that are successful are absolutely not attributes a standard DLP possesses: those are the attributes I used to assert that Bentaleb was a B2B midfielder, not a DLP. So I can't see why you would compare Carrick's stats in that regard to Bentaleb's, and then harrumph about how it (to an extent) disproves my assertion: I made it very clear that I consider the first five or so attributes above critical for a deep-lying playmaker to possess, not the last two.

Anyway, on to the numbers. Firstly, we can absolutely see the variation in styles employed by the teams these players play for: that is evidenced by the seemingly disparate stats that show Busquets having the second-lowest chance creation percentage and lowest average pass length, for example (he passed it to Rakitic/Xavi/Iniesta ahead of him and let them do the work, and often from a position relatively close to them). Yet, despite this fact, we can see that Bentaleb has the second-lowest average pass length, despite playing in a team that relies on quick, direct balls to the forwards to start attacks: and the lowest number of total forward passes played, despite (as per your assertion) ostensibly being the 'playmaker' of the team. He also has the lowest number of successful passes played per game, despite playing shorter passes on average than all these midfielders bar Busquets. His chance creation rates are in the middle of the pack (although doubled by Modric and roughly quadrupled by Pirlo), and his key pass rate, likewise.

Carrick's passes are 20 metre boomers, and he plays more of them than Bentaleb does per game. As does Busquets, although he plays shorter passes. However, Bentaleb doesn't play long passes, he plays comparatively fewer forward passes, he has comparatively fewer successful passes to his name: what he does do is create chances at a decent rate and play 'key' passes (often leading to a goal or a chance) at an average rate, while dribbling past players more than anyone on this list except Luka, and doing it successfully at a rate that even Luka can't match.

What do those facts suggest to you? In a team reliant on quick balls to the forwards, ferocious pressing and vertical attacks up the pitch, Bentaleb instead chooses to play short passes, often backwards or sideways, while instead dribbling with the ball at a relatively higher rate and still creating chances from that playstyle. His partner, however (Mason): I'd reckon that Mason would easily stack up to these players you have selected in most of these categories. So, in the Mason-Bentaleb pairing: who is the playmaker, and who is the sitter who was restricted in a DM role? And who looks like he could do a lot more damage dribbling from the back as opposed to trying to pass it forward as DLPs do?

Come on, mate, surely this must be obvious to you by now.
 
DUbai, why would getting a new CM in mean Alli or Mason becomes CAM option? That would leave us with 3 CM's... I'm pretty confident that out choices will be Bentaleb and NEW CM, with Mason and either Alli or even another CM.
)

I thought the same
Then remembered we have Tom Carroll
 
DUbai, why would getting a new CM in mean Alli or Mason becomes CAM option? That would leave us with 3 CM's... I'm pretty confident that out choices will be Bentaleb and NEW CM, with Mason and either Alli or even another CM.

I know you've mentioned Demebele, and although I agree he's far better as a CM than mason (Chelsea he as immense), he was often played in the 3 behind towards the end, Mason wasn't. If Mason was seen for this position over Dembele why wouldn't he have trie sit last season? Makes no sense. It isn't happening.

I personally hope we keep Dembele for the 3 behind Kane, but also extra depth to drop into the two CM positions if Alli isn't up to it or we have serious injuries. (Or porch finally realises mason isn't good enough #witchhunt)

Like I said, I don't fully understand why Poch seems to be so hesitant about using Dembele, but I hope he can see that he's best further back at CM/DM: if we can get a new DM with him as a backup, then I think that pivot is sorted. The other DM 'pivot' will, imo, be between Bentaleb and probably Alli (since he played that role for MK Dons). And I hope (dearly hope) that Poch can see the benefits we could gain by playing Mason at CAM (presser, tireless worker, fierce, technically brilliant to boot), and thus uses him there with Eriksen: although, if you feel that Dembele is more likely to be used in the CAM position, then by all means, put him up there. I only put Mason up there because I think Dembele isn't going to leave, and also isn't going to be used at CAM (probably will slow down our play a bit there): thus, the only logical place I could see for him in the squad was as our 2nd DM option, with Bentaleb and Alli alongside him providing the B2B options.
 
So, Carrick, Busquets and Modric, izzat it? No problem, mate, let's take a gander at Squawka....

View attachment 2374


Now, before we analyze this, do note that successful take-ons per game and the percentage of take-ons that are successful are absolutely not attributes a standard DLP possesses: those are the attributes I used to assert that Bentaleb was a B2B midfielder, not a DLP. So I can't see why you would compare Carrick's stats in that regard to Bentaleb's, and then harrumph about how it (to an extent) disproves my assertion: I made it very clear that I consider the first five or so attributes above critical for a deep-lying playmaker to possess, not the last two.

Anyway, on to the numbers. Firstly, we can absolutely see the variation in styles employed by the teams these players play for: that is evidenced by the seemingly disparate stats that show Busquets having the second-lowest chance creation percentage and lowest average pass length, for example (he passed it to Rakitic/Xavi/Iniesta ahead of him and let them do the work, and often from a position relatively close to them). Yet, despite this fact, we can see that Bentaleb has the second-lowest average pass length, despite playing in a team that relies on quick, direct balls to the forwards to start attacks: and the lowest number of total forward passes played, despite (as per your assertion) ostensibly being the 'playmaker' of the team. He also has the lowest number of successful passes played per game, despite playing shorter passes on average than all these midfielders bar Busquets. His chance creation rates are in the middle of the pack (although doubled by Modric and roughly quadrupled by Pirlo), and his key pass rate, likewise.

Carrick's passes are 20 metre boomers, and he plays more of them than Bentaleb does per game. As does Busquets, although he plays shorter passes. However, Bentaleb doesn't play long passes, he plays comparatively fewer forward passes, he has comparatively fewer successful passes to his name: what he does do is create chances at a decent rate and play 'key' passes (often leading to a goal or a chance) at an average rate, while dribbling past players more than anyone on this list except Luka, and doing it successfully at a rate that even Luka can't match.

What do those facts suggest to you? In a team reliant on quick balls to the forwards, ferocious pressing and vertical attacks up the pitch, Bentaleb instead chooses to play short passes, often backwards or sideways, while instead dribbling with the ball at a relatively higher rate and still creating chances from that playstyle. His partner, however (Mason): I'd reckon that Mason would easily stack up to these players you have selected in most of these categories. So, in the Mason-Bentaleb pairing: who is the playmaker, and who is the sitter who was restricted in a DM role? And who looks like he could do a lot more damage dribbling from the back as opposed to trying to pass it forward as DLPs do?

Come on, mate, surely this must be obvious to you by now.

Not obvious at all. As you start out by saying, you can see the differences in style between the teams and players, different ways to play that role. Of course in a list with 4 of the top players in this role in the world 20 year old Bentaleb will look inferior in many ways.

We do rely on quick forward passes, but we also had the third most possession of any team in the league last season (http://www.whoscored.com/Regions/25...amStatistics/England-Premier-League-2014-2015) In that context I think Bentaleb's forward passes and length of passing makes sense, particularly when considered along with him not (yet) being at the level of those other players. Real also play a quick direct style a lot of the time, the difference in passing length between Bentaleb and Modric is rather small.

Yes he has the lowest number of successful passes, but come on. We're comparing him to Juve, Barca and Real players here. Him clocking up essentially the same number of successful passes as Carrick surely is the most relevant comparison for this stat, isn't it? Interestingly number of passes wasn't compared earlier when looking at Bentaleb compared to McCarthy for example?

He attempted dribbles around half as often as Modric, again this stat doesn't inform us at all about if he's a deep playmaker or not. Just a difference between styles of the players based on their strengths. Modric is really good at ghosting past players so he does that a lot, Carrick struggles to dribble past training cones so he avoids those situations. Bentaleb falls somewhere in between those two extremes.

Again, the key pass and chance creation comparison with Pirlo is just ridiculous remembering that Pirlo takes just about all the set pieces for his team. Speaking of things that should be obvious...

I have to say I've never heard it claimed before that a deep lying playmaker can be identified by these stats, and I remain very much unconvinced by your reasoning. The variation between the players compared seems much too large for this to be valid imo. How on earth can you claim that successful take ons is relevant in this discussion when top players like Modric and Carrick fall at opposite ends of the spectrum? That much seems obvious at least.
 
So, Carrick, Busquets and Modric, izzat it? No problem, mate, let's take a gander at Squawka....

View attachment 2374


Now, before we analyze this, do note that successful take-ons per game and the percentage of take-ons that are successful are absolutely not attributes a standard DLP possesses: those are the attributes I used to assert that Bentaleb was a B2B midfielder, not a DLP. So I can't see why you would compare Carrick's stats in that regard to Bentaleb's, and then harrumph about how it (to an extent) disproves my assertion: I made it very clear that I consider the first five or so attributes above critical for a deep-lying playmaker to possess, not the last two.

Anyway, on to the numbers. Firstly, we can absolutely see the variation in styles employed by the teams these players play for: that is evidenced by the seemingly disparate stats that show Busquets having the second-lowest chance creation percentage and lowest average pass length, for example (he passed it to Rakitic/Xavi/Iniesta ahead of him and let them do the work, and often from a position relatively close to them). Yet, despite this fact, we can see that Bentaleb has the second-lowest average pass length, despite playing in a team that relies on quick, direct balls to the forwards to start attacks: and the lowest number of total forward passes played, despite (as per your assertion) ostensibly being the 'playmaker' of the team. He also has the lowest number of successful passes played per game, despite playing shorter passes on average than all these midfielders bar Busquets. His chance creation rates are in the middle of the pack (although doubled by Modric and roughly quadrupled by Pirlo), and his key pass rate, likewise.

Carrick's passes are 20 metre boomers, and he plays more of them than Bentaleb does per game. As does Busquets, although he plays shorter passes. However, Bentaleb doesn't play long passes, he plays comparatively fewer forward passes, he has comparatively fewer successful passes to his name: what he does do is create chances at a decent rate and play 'key' passes (often leading to a goal or a chance) at an average rate, while dribbling past players more than anyone on this list except Luka, and doing it successfully at a rate that even Luka can't match.

What do those facts suggest to you? In a team reliant on quick balls to the forwards, ferocious pressing and vertical attacks up the pitch, Bentaleb instead chooses to play short passes, often backwards or sideways, while instead dribbling with the ball at a relatively higher rate and still creating chances from that playstyle. His partner, however (Mason): I'd reckon that Mason would easily stack up to these players you have selected in most of these categories. So, in the Mason-Bentaleb pairing: who is the playmaker, and who is the sitter who was restricted in a DM role? And who looks like he could do a lot more damage dribbling from the back as opposed to trying to pass it forward as DLPs do?
I
Come on, mate, surely this must be obvious to you by now.

That's why I don't get the skating of Mason as defensive midfield per when clearly out of the tow his role was the metronome/creative role similar to Modric. His role was to pass the ball forwards and move with it hence why he sometimes was the man pulling the trigger (United at home late in the game being a great example after a lung bursting run)

Neither Petit or Viera where out and out stoppers but with the experience they had they found a balance that made their side a great great side. Mason and bentelab could potentially find that balance if we get away from the fact they have had one seasons together in total

Regarding Dembele for me his best position is in front of Bentelab and alongside Mason almost so we play 1 deeper with how in front. It's how we played against arsenal (arguably with their best passing players taking out of the game by us) and vs West Brom where no one had battered them under Pulis but we did

We also played that way against Chelsea when dembele came on as Erisken dropped into that central roll and played it deeper drawing Matic with him

It may not work against poor sides but it did work against the better ones
 
On the basis of that game he needs to stay and be in the rotation. That was a good side. US teams are always fit, and they are in their season already. Mixed with some good talented players. So not a scrub team.

For his age his choice making is great. He knows when to send a pass, or when to just lay it off. He also have an amazing surge in him and we all know he is good in and around the box. Very impressed for someone his age, showing that maturity and quality.

I would play him with the first teamers for the next game.
 
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