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Cycling thread

dingdongo said:
That's what I'm getting at.. If they are all at it (and the consensus is that Nibali and Contador seem to be more at it than Froome) then why are they not performing better.
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good question, i'm sure someone who believes they are all doping would have an opinion, probably that Froome is doping more or is a more compatible receptor
 
dingdongo said:
That's what I'm getting at.. If they are all at it (and the consensus is that Nibali and Contador seem to be more at it than Froome) then why are they not performing better.
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The consensus isnt that they seem to be more at it than Froome. In Spain and Italy there isnt the same stigma attached to doping. Their media dont go out and argue they are clean. They dont care. Pantani is a hero. Contador and Valverde get cheered. Whereas Armstrong is vilified in america.

Contador just wont he Giro. No one has completed a Giro tour double since Pantani.
Nibali isn't with it for whatever reason (bad blood bag) and is getting abuse from his own team
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/07/r...ave-astana-one-year-ahead-of-end-of-contract/
They have the policy “They were just telling me, ‘you will start performing or you will not get your salary.’” ie dope or get out.
Quintata has been going well and the last week will suit him.
 
Meanwhile Geraint Thomas the Welsh classics rider and former track specialist has rode faster than Armstrong in 2002 and 2004 up the Plateau de Beille into a headwind in the rain. New era my arse.
 
Modric THFC said:
The consensus isnt that they seem to be more at it than Froome. In Spain and Italy there isnt the same stigma attached to doping. Their media dont go out and argue they are clean. They dont care. Pantani is a hero. Contador and Valverde get cheered. Whereas Armstrong is vilified in america.

Contador just wont he Giro. No one has completed a Giro tour double since Pantani.
Nibali isn't with it for whatever reason (bad blood bag) and is getting abuse from his own team
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/07/r...ave-astana-one-year-ahead-of-end-of-contract/
They have the policy “They were just telling me, ‘you will start performing or you will not get your salary.’” ie dope or get out.
Quintata has been going well and the last week will suit him.
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So pretty much the same attitude to what they have when it comes to cheating in football then?
 
Modric THFC said:
Contador and Nibali are doping. Don't be ridiculous.
Read the CIRC report.
Even diehard Contador fanboys admit he's doping. What has he to lose by being caught again. No one is Spain cares.
Nibali is a client of Michelle Ferrari. The Astana team is the most obviously doped in the peloton. Everyone knows Nibali is working with Ferrari just like they did Amrstrong did.
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/12/n...-ferrari-attended-team-training-camp-in-2013/
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Do you think Team Sky are doping?
 
There is an element where drugs is a short cut for those taking short cuts....therefore the drugs are just taking them to the same level as a supreme athlete less the dedication.

What I mean is the guys doping are doing so to cut corners in their regime, that's why they are not ahead or even equal, drugs only take you so far...if they trained as hard as the best and took drugs they would be far and above but they don't, that's why they dope....doping isn't just about winning, its about cutting corners and making up for lack of natural talent....

The doping argument takes the natural element out for those that are clean too...lets liken it to football. Michael Kightly, released from Spurs, West Ham, Southend...comes to my local club Grays Athletic "too slight, not strong, not quick"....plays two seasons for Grays, grows in a year, gets a move to Wolves, gets a move to Stoke, gets a move to Burnley...its also about natural timing, natural selection, people develop at different rates and the margins in that level of sport are small...its just a case that the water is muddy from doping scandal, to the point if I was clean and good I probably wouldn't wanna win stages or the tour for fear of mud slinging....
 
Jurgen the German said:
Do you think Team Sky are doping?
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Yes. And you wouldn't even question it if they weren't a British team pumping out PR to a British media eager to lap it up.
Froome is a proven cheat. A guy that admitted to forging documents to race for Kenya in the u23 world championships after they wouldn't select him. A guy that was kicked off the Giro for holding on to a motorbike. A guy that cheated in front of the world in the 2013 tour taking food from the car after in the final stages when he wasnt allowed to, he only was sanctioned a 20 second penalty.
I dont trust Froome.
I dont trust Brailsford as a watchman when riders have been caught doping under him unknown to him.
I dont know if he's a facilitator, if he turns a blind eye or is just very naive and trusting about doping.
I dont trust their links to the UCI. Any other team would have been denied a World Tour licence over SkyBet. UCI have looked the other way because they are Sky.
I dont trust the obviously dodgy people that have been involved in Team Sky Leinders, Sean Yates, Bobby Julich, Steven de Jongh. Servais Knaven and Dario Cioni (both did EPO) are still there.
I dont trust the dodgy riders they have had:
- Appollonio (done for epo)
- Barry (admitted to doping with Lance)
- Henao (blood values all over the place in his bio passport, no conviction because its only on the useless bio passport, but he is sitting on the Sky naughty step)
- Tiernan-Locke (convicted of an actual bio passport violation which takes some doing)
- Possoni (part of the Ferrari investigation)
- Rodgers (positive Clenbuterol test same as Contador was convicted off but got off)

I dont trust the obvious lies in Sky's PR. Latest being the silly hack business.
 
if they are doping Brailsford knows about it, he knows the riders history and physiology, he knows exactly what they are capable of, if they have an unexplainable something extra he's either part of it or ignoring it, either way, if Froome is dirty, Brailsford is dirty
 
If everyone is dirty which is basically what we're saying here then why do you watch it at all? Is Wiggins also dirty?
 
if I found out I was wrong about Sky that would knock me back a bit, it would be a far worse deception than US Postal/Discovery

i've always watched it, from when I was a naive kid cheering on Big Mig, no thought that it was anything other than blokes on bikes, after each evenings highlights i'd head out on my own racer and pretend I was grinding up the Tourmalet or flying round a TT, I didn't turn away when I found out about the doping, I figured something was going on when Indurain was passed by so many new names so quickly, I still watched though, the spectacle is amazing, a beautiful country, beautiful bikes, and even though they were cheating there was something to enjoy about the challenge they would give each other and the close up's of suffering faces, yes Ullrich was dirty, but he was still hurting, still forcing himself to drive those pedals round, still sport, albeit with a massive caveat, no longer the hero's I had used to believe in

I watch now with the hope that change is coming, that the likes of Garmin and Sky are what they claim to be, that Froome, Cav and Thomas are pan y agua
 
The difficulty is that once you get a culture of suspicion, where every team suspects the other is doping, then it is easy to justify doping on the basis that you have no chance of succeeding without doping.

I think the power output, repeated efforts and recovery rates are all used as anecdotal doping indicators. That is why people point to Nibali's recovery between stages in last year's Tour or Froome's improvement in performance once getting into Sky. Although I'd like to make it quite clear that I'm not suggesting/implying either have doped. Just that you can understand, especially given the sport's history, why people question certain performances.

Two riders I don't think have doped are Cadel Evans - he was cycling's nearly man for such a long time, and always just off of the pace - if he had been doping I think his Grand Tour performances would have been better - and Wiggins - his grinding it out/struggling performances in the mountain stages never really struck me as the performance of someone who was doping. (Mind you Jan Ullrich used to grind it out in the mountains a bit -but then was probably just in comparison to Pantani and Armstrong).

And Pantani may be a hero to some but his denouement wasn't very heroic.
 
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By the way mods, it is probably best if people are not too specific with their doping suspicions on the forum.
 
Not caught as much as this tour as I would have liked as I have been so busy. I love demmare(spelling) french sprinter think he is going to be real good.

I agree with others that Sagan is so unique I really think he is going to win 10 stages one year when it all comes together for him,

As for Froome I do not like him personally but if he is doping I do not believe he is doing it through sky but on his own back. I like Nibbles the most but was sad when he went to Astana as I really do not like them.

Chuffed for Cv to get his win, pathetic at such a lack of sprint stages in the tour. Cav as he gets older is going to have sprint in a different way like McEwan used to. I loved watching the little aussie and if cav learns from him he can still win the odd stage. He is climbing better.

I said this tour would be Kristoff's so yet again I am wrong about something. But if you asked my wife I am wrong more then I am right.
 
P.D. said:
If everyone is dirty which is basically what we're saying here then why do you watch it at all? Is Wiggins also dirty?
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Same as diving in football really as far as I'm concerned.
I would like it gone but have to put up with it.
Similarly the british media think only foreigners dive just as only foreigners dope.
 
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