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Cristian Romero

That's an interesting point regarding how he was managed last season vs this, certainly valid if true.

However for me this isn't just about yesterday's red card, whether it was right or wrong or not - he has got away with several potential red cards in addition to the ones he has justifiably received. But when I talk about mistakes I'm not just talking about when he sees the red mist, I'm talking about his actual defending. I just don't think he's that good, his aggression is often counter productive (it absolutely is a positive weapon at times) and positionally he's often found wanting.

Hes very good on the ball, but I just don't feel I know what Romero I'm getting on a weekly basis and can't hang my hat on him to put in a performance at all. I think he will be well suited to Spanish football, if we get a good fee for him I'd happily take it tbh - our recruitment of CBs seems pretty solid - Vuskovic, Danso, VDV. I know you hold him in higher regard than me, I really like his will to win but I just would rather someone a bit more reliable in various elements....

I’m with you. He’s a good defender, but he makes too many mistakes to be considered a top defender with the likes of Saliba, Toby, Vertonghen, King etc. Being a good footballer and good on the ball doesn’t make you a top defender, just ask John Stones. Romero has games where he drags us through with world class goals, but it’s the other end where his expertise lets us down with reckless decisions and brain farts.
 
In the interest of discussion not argument..:

Under Ange last season his 'card' record was excellent after he got warned by staff (Ange and Raimundo). This season he has been basically carrying us in all senses and all manners. I don't believe he has been managed well, I believe he has been allowed to dictate too much of everything (I love his goals but let's face it, if we had other ways to create and score we would only need him in one box regularly - corners obviously an exception; his maverick forward moves should be tempered via coaching and having better structure and shape in our creative play). Not publicly fining him for outbursts was a poor move too.

We have a rare talent here and we are going to lose him due to poor management. He has his issues yet we have done nothing to address them. Poch did with Dele, Ange did with Romero last season. I steadfastly maintain Saturday was all about history, and further the opposition's reactions. I am aware we disagree and thus fully understand you think I have that wrong. Interested in your perspective on the rest..
Carrying us this season??? With all respect, get a grip. He's far from carried us. He's been a liability in numerous games, and that's not counting the games that he hasn't been available. He's been at fault for a number of goals. Popping up with the odd goal is great, but if he did his primary job and defended properly, and managed to stay on the pitch, there wouldn't be a need for him to score goals. I'd much rather seem him being disciplined both in a defensive sense and in controlling his need to make overly aggressive tackles.
He can be world class on his day, but I'd rather a player that gives a 7 performance every week than someone like Romero who will give a 10 followed by a few 5s or a red card.
 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I just don't see it as excessive or reckless, but I'll admit I'm quite old school in my thinking regarding fouls. I'm not of this "there was contact" school of thought. For something to be a foul it actually has to an actual foul for me. The player needs to be impeded or in this case, you win the ball you're allowed to contact the opponent especially if you're first and you're actually clearing the ball, physics doesn't allow a leg to just stop dead after contacting the ball. But as I said we will likely never see it the same way.

And to be 100% this is neither a Romero or a Spurs thing. I don't even think Romero is as good a defender as many harp on about and if that had been Casemiro getting sent off I'd say the exact same thing as I have any time an opposition player wrongly imo has been sent off against us or a penalty wasn't given
Using your outlook, an elbow breaking someone's eye socket would be allowed, as long as the ball is won first
 
That's an interesting point regarding how he was managed last season vs this, certainly valid if true.

However for me this isn't just about yesterday's red card, whether it was right or wrong or not - he has got away with several potential red cards in addition to the ones he has justifiably received. But when I talk about mistakes I'm not just talking about when he sees the red mist, I'm talking about his actual defending. I just don't think he's that good, his aggression is often counter productive (it absolutely is a positive weapon at times) and positionally he's often found wanting.

Hes very good on the ball, but I just don't feel I know what Romero I'm getting on a weekly basis and can't hang my hat on him to put in a performance at all. I think he will be well suited to Spanish football, if we get a good fee for him I'd happily take it tbh - our recruitment of CBs seems pretty solid - Vuskovic, Danso, VDV. I know you hold him in higher regard than me, I really like his will to win but I just would rather someone a bit more reliable in various elements....

Great discussion BTW...I think he will leave anyway; he won't get a fair shake IMO. One thing which would be helpful is if he wasn't one of our two good passers/playmakers.

In 26 appearances last season he has 5 yellow
cards total across all comps.
He had 1 goal and 2 assists.

This season it is 8 yellows, 1 yellow to red, and one straight red across 28 games in all comps. He has 6 goals and 4 assists.

He has played more football for sure this season, and has been more important as a 'creative/goalscoring' player. Let's be honest, this is not really ideal. We want him primarily defending.
 
Carrying us this season??? With all respect, get a grip. He's far from carried us. He's been a liability in numerous games, and that's not counting the games that he hasn't been available. He's been at fault for a number of goals. Popping up with the odd goal is great, but if he did his primary job and defended properly, and managed to stay on the pitch, there wouldn't be a need for him to score goals. I'd much rather seem him being disciplined both in a defensive sense and in controlling his need to make overly aggressive tackles.
He can be world class on his day, but I'd rather a player that gives a 7 performance every week than someone like Romero who will give a 10 followed by a few 5s or a red card.

"Get a grip" eh? Ha.
In return I say get a perspective.
I will repeat some stats.

<<In 26 appearances last season he had 5?yellow
cards total across all comps.
He had 1 goal and 2 assists.

This season it is 8 yellows, 1 yellow to red, and one straight red across 28 games in all comps. He has 6 goals and 4 assists.>>

I'll add some more. He got one red card under Ange against Chelsea. After that? None for the rest of Ange's time, and after that three game ban in 2023/24 for Chelsea, not even a yellow for the rest of the season.

Last season his remit was pretty different, and his behavior again well managed.

So...THIS season, 2 reds and 8 yellows already???? I would suggest that someone is not handling him or coaching him properly.

If these facts don't suit your opinion/narrative, then that's your choice. But they're facts, and I personally would rather pay attention to what they might suggest rather than bin off the biggest and most experienced winner we have in the squad (again a fact not opinion)...

p.s. if our style of football was one which saw us create chances beyond set-pieces and crosses slung in, then perhaps we wouldn't need his 5 goals and 4 assists this season; write to the manager and tell him 😉👍
 
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Using your outlook, an elbow breaking someone's eye socket would be allowed, as long as the ball is won first
Well no, an elbow to someone's face is not a challenge for the ball. You're not allowed to touch the ball with your hands, arms etc. But a keeper is and yes a keeper can clear a ball catch the opposition in doing so and it's not considered a foul...
 
"Get a grip" eh? Ha.
In return I say get a perspective.
I will repeat some stats.

<<In 26 appearances last season he had 5?yellow
cards total across all comps.
He had 1 goal and 2 assists.

This season it is 8 yellows, 1 yellow to red, and one straight red across 28 games in all comps. He has 6 goals and 4 assists.>>

I'll add some more. He got one red card under Ange against Chelsea. After that? None for the rest of Ange's time, and after that three game ban in 2023/24 for Chelsea, not even a yellow for the rest of the season.

Last season his remit was pretty different, and his behavior again well managed.

So...THIS season, 2 reds and 8 yellows already???? I would suggest that someone is not handling him or coaching him properly.

If these facts don't suit your opinion/narrative, then that's your choice. But they're facts, and I personally would rather pay attention to what they might suggest rather than bin off the biggest and most experienced winner we have in the squad (again a fact not opinion)...

p.s. if our style of football was one which saw us create chances beyond set-pieces and crosses slung in, then perhaps we wouldn't need his 5 goals and 4 assists this season; write to the manager and tell him 😉👍

And the broken record plays on....
 
"Get a grip" eh? Ha.
In return I say get a perspective.
I will repeat some stats.

<<In 26 appearances last season he had 5?yellow
cards total across all comps.
He had 1 goal and 2 assists.

This season it is 8 yellows, 1 yellow to red, and one straight red across 28 games in all comps. He has 6 goals and 4 assists.>>

I'll add some more. He got one red card under Ange against Chelsea. After that? None for the rest of Ange's time, and after that three game ban in 2023/24 for Chelsea, not even a yellow for the rest of the season.

Last season his remit was pretty different, and his behavior again well managed.

So...THIS season, 2 reds and 8 yellows already???? I would suggest that someone is not handling him or coaching him properly.

If these facts don't suit your opinion/narrative, then that's your choice. But they're facts, and I personally would rather pay attention to what they might suggest rather than bin off the biggest and most experienced winner we have in the squad (again a fact not opinion)...

p.s. if our style of football was one which saw us create chances beyond set-pieces and crosses slung in, then perhaps we wouldn't need his 5 goals and 4 assists this season; write to the manager and tell him 😉👍
How does any of that feed into him carrying the team?
 
I'd say at least as valuable as you laughing at a simple question and avoiding answering it

I already answered it.
If 5 goals and 4 assists in a side managed by someone who cannot create beyond using his CB and right back to either play the passes (or in Romero's case, score and assist) doesn't seem like an answer to you, then that is yours to own.

It seems like you cannot admit there's another justifiable narrative/opinion beyond your own, so (perhaps?) you just stick and hammer what doesn't fit yours. I can't say for sure because I don't know but it seems that way.
I'll accept any difference of opinion from people who are open to discussion and exchange even if ultimately agreeing to disagree.
 
How does any of that feed into him carrying the team?
4 goals 5 assists.

One of very few players who has the quality and ability to take responsibility on the ball in deeper areas and try to make something happen.

But for sure also the cards (both red and yellow) along with borderline fouls that could have been a red are a concern. As Steff points out seemed to be able to minimise that last season. Those cards picking up again along with the social media posts and to me trying to take too much responsibility, he doesn't seem to be in the best head space these days. A real concern as he's imo our best player. And imo one who at the very least does his bit to carry the team.
 
I already answered it.
If 5 goals and 4 assists in a side managed by someone who cannot create beyond using his CB and right back to either play the passes (or in Romero's case, score and assist) doesn't seem like an answer to you, then that is yours to own.

It seems like you cannot admit there's another justifiable narrative/opinion beyond your own, so (perhaps?) you just stick and hammer what doesn't fit yours. I can't say for sure because I don't know but it seems that way.
I'll accept any difference of opinion from people who are open to discussion and exchange even if ultimately agreeing to disagree.
5 goals isn't carrying the team. He's been responsible for just as many goals conceded. You're the one hammering in attacking stats while ignoring how poor he's been in games defensively. His red and yellow card stats for previous seasons have no bearing on this season, where he'll miss at least 20% of games due to bans. That is not carrying a team no matter how much you are blinkered to his failings.
 
And with that, I'm done with any further exchanges with you on this subject. I will leave a parting thought; such defined accusations of others come with a mirror. Take a look and maybe take care of your own vision before slagging off others.
Then maybe give a proper response to a genuine question instead of just a "🤣" and you'll get a different type of reply ;)
 
Then maybe give a proper response to a genuine question instead of just a "🤣" and you'll get a different type of reply ;)
You initially had a long answer. You either didn't understand the points being made or didn't want to.
Strawman your way out of it as much as you want, it is a fact.
Anyway, this exchange is getting toxic. Want to agree to disagree and move on mate?

😘
 
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In the interest of discussion not argument..:

We have a rare talent here and we are going to lose him due to poor management. He has his issues yet we have done nothing to address them. Poch did with Dele, Ange did with Romero last season. I steadfastly maintain Saturday was all about history, and further the opposition's reactions. I am aware we disagree and thus fully understand you think I have that wrong. Interested in your perspective on the rest...

He needs to be managed, always had, under the right guidance he is the elite WC, Copa, Europa winning defender that people who like him say he is, without it, he sometimes drifts and is prone to concentration lapses.

I've always said he looks better in the CL and later cup stages because it's easier for him to turn on and stay focused. The guy can defend, he can pass, he can carry the ball, he can score with feet or head, he's got the physicality, he understands movement (he can pop up in midfield or up front), in some ways I have that feeling I used to have years ago with Dele, the game is sometimes too easy for these guys.

I do find it funny that after years of Dier, Sanchez, whoever post Toby & Jan people are so easy to dismiss Romero as a genuine elite defender.
 
He needs to be managed, always had, under the right guidance he is the elite WC, Copa, Europa winning defender that people who like him say he is, without it, he sometimes drifts and is prone to concentration lapses.

I've always said he looks better in the CL and later cup stages because it's easier for him to turn on and stay focused. The guy can defend, he can pass, he can carry the ball, he can score with feet or head, he's got the physicality, he understands movement (he can pop up in midfield or up front), in some ways I have that feeling I used to have years ago with Dele, the game is sometimes too easy for these guys.

I do find it funny that after years of Dier, Sanchez, whoever post Toby & Jan people are so easy to dismiss Romero as a genuine elite defender.

Absolutely right.
 
He needs to be managed, always had, under the right guidance he is the elite WC, Copa, Europa winning defender that people who like him say he is, without it, he sometimes drifts and is prone to concentration lapses.

I've always said he looks better in the CL and later cup stages because it's easier for him to turn on and stay focused. The guy can defend, he can pass, he can carry the ball, he can score with feet or head, he's got the physicality, he understands movement (he can pop up in midfield or up front), in some ways I have that feeling I used to have years ago with Dele, the game is sometimes too easy for these guys.

I do find it funny that after years of Dier, Sanchez, whoever post Toby & Jan people are so easy to dismiss Romero as a genuine elite defender.
I don’t think there’s much to disagree in this. The interesting debate for me - as long as it stays good natured - is whether he is a net positive for us or not.

Unless a certain Argentinian comes in in the summer and is able to manage him better, I think it’s time to cut our losses, as for me, he’s costing us more than we’re getting for him for the points I’ve made - he’s playing angry (and unfocused, for my money).
 
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