Club mentality - domestic cups

[Kandi1977]

The problem stems from sending out a starting 11 with so many changes to our usual starting 11. This immediately makes the players subconsciously feel they don't have to try as hard, it also has the effect of pumping the opposition up.

When other teams rotate, all I ever see is players who give their all, to show they deserve to play! Sheffield United rotated more than us, still played better than us. Why? Because they gave 100% and a bit more.
Our players thought they could easily beat a championship side, and started off at 75%. That never works! But once you start with that mindset, it's difficult to up it and get into the fight.
It's only about mentality. This and that player not being good enough is rubbish! Those players fielded are better than every single opposition player. It's only mentality and how you approach the game.

 

[Grays_1890]

Question. Would you have been happy with that starting 11 against Arsenal or Emirates Marketing Project in a league game?

No but we would not have played that selection even if we played Arsenal last night. Like I said we played the team for the opposition we faced not the competition we played in and it backfired

As others have said that team should have beaten the side put out even with the changes, too many for my liking but like @Kandi1977 said they were better in every department and should also be fighting for the right to start in the game you believe we prioritise, surely that should be the make up for any player?

At the end of the day the players we put out to win the game were terrible, thats on them, this whole idea that players had their bellies rubbed and rolled over because the club also has an ambition to play in the CL is abit of a reach for me and rhetoric chiming IMO

 

[Lilbaz]

No but we would not have played that selection even if we played Arsenal last night. Like I said we played the team for the opposition we faced not the competition we played in and it backfired

As others have said that team should have beaten the side put out even with the changes, too many for my liking but like @Kandi1977 said they were better in every department and should also be fighting for the right to start in the game you believe we prioritise, surely that should be the make up for any player?

At the end of the day the players we put out to win the game were terrible, thats on them, this whole idea that players had their bellies rubbed and rolled over because the club also has an ambition to play in the CL is abit of a reach for me and rhetoric chiming IMO

How many times does it happen though? The conference league last season was an example, boro another, even against forrest this season (they had a totally unsettled squad at the beginning).
We are doing it way too frequently.

 

[AdamB]

I don't htink last night's defeat was about attitude, it was about ability and form IMO.

One of our repeated problems is lack of creativity and none of Kulu, Kane or Bentancur started for differing reasons.

And then in terms of form - Son and Richie haven't played well for months, and Moura hasn't played for months. Perisic has also been very poor this season and Porro is new

I think thats the biggest reason for losing

 

[Lilbaz]

I don't htink last night's defeat was about attitude, it was about ability and form IMO.

One of our repeated problems is lack of creativity and none of Kulu, Kane or Bentancur started for differing reasons.

And then in terms of form - Son and Richie haven't played well for months, and Moura hasn't played for months. Perisic has also been very poor this season and Porro is new

I think thats the biggest reason for losing

It wasn't sheff utds 1st 11. It was their b side.

 

[Grays_1890]

How many times does it happen though? The conference league last season was an example, boro another, even against forrest this season (they had a totally unsettled squad at the beginning).
We are doing it way too frequently.

And we have played full strength sides in all these competitions and still lost

Like I said, what was the excuse for the stinker at Leicester? Priorities? Of is it the fact that football works like that and people won't scream priority because in the league you have a game next week to make it up?

People want to rationalise the fact we have not won a cup in years and I get it, but all those semi finals and finals we lost we played to win but lost, was that because of priorities? Course it wasn't but if we had won even one of them would people be playing the priority card? I honestly don't think they would to be honest.

Season before last we went out the FA Cup in a full strength barn stormer against Everton in ET and got to the final. Last year we got the the Semi final of the EFL played full strength and got a whooping from Chelsea and played full strength against Boro.

So the idea we always play a weaker side because of the comp is a lie, the fact we have gone deep to the final and semi final two years in a row kinda sh1ts on the not taking it serious argument as do all the other countless full strength appearances in semis and finals

Don't confuse me with someone that does not want to win and I am angry about both cup exits this year but I think its a reach to blame priorities just because we reach the CL every now and then

 

[Lilbaz]

And we have played full strength sides in all these competitions and still lost

Like I said, what was the excuse for the stinker at Leicester? Priorities? Of is it the fact that football works like that and people won't scream priority because in the league you have a game next week to make it up?

People want to rationalise the fact we have not won a cup in years and I get it, but all those semi finals and finals we lost we played to win but lost, was that because of priorities? Course it wasn't but if we had won even one of them would people be playing the priority card? I honestly don't think they would to be honest.

But we didn't win any of them. There is a mentality issue. Whatever the cause. No trophies in 15 years. That is 60 trophies we've missed out on. For a club our size (yes we built the stadium, but we had players good enough).

 

[Grays_1890]

But we didn't win any of them. There is a mentality issue. Whatever the cause. No trophies in 15 years. That is 60 trophies we've missed out on. For a club our size (yeas we built the stadium, but we had players good enough).

I agree but losing league cup, fa cup and CL finals is not a weakness do to priorities, logic and the fact we are in those stages of the cup tell you that. Its the weakness that everyone has spoken about for years, the same weakness that Neville and Keane mocked us for for just "turning up" and "3 point lane", that softness still exists for me, it shows in the league as much as any cup game regardless of what picture anyone tries to paint

 

[Lilbaz]

I agree but losing league cup, fa cup and CL finals is not a weakness do to priorities, logic and the fact we are in those stages of the cup tell you that. Its the weakness that everyone has spoken about for years, the same weakness that Neville and Keane mocked us for for just "turning up" and "3 point lane", that softness still exists for me, it shows in the league as much as any cup game regardless of what picture anyone tries to paint

Yet we do get cl. 5 out of the last 7 years. Above the likes of arsenal, man utd...

 

[glasgowspur]

It may well be the clubs priority to reach CL, but the players priority should be to win every game they play in.
Seldom looks like it.

 

[Grays_1890]

Yet we do get cl. 5 out of the last 7 years. Above the likes of arsenal, man utd...

And we have been in 6 finals winning 1

SFs lost outside that 8 times

Thats nothing to do with priorities thats a weakness to get over the winning line

 

[Mulletperm]

My original statement was regarding the clear 'soft belly' that Spurs have, and my opinion that there is an apparent lack of desire to go into these games giving it 100%, because they are not as attractive in terms of financial reward and prestige as there is qualifying for the Champion's League. I still maintain that this soft belly/mental attitude is a result of not really going for it in this games, starting with a weaker 11 (than we would in a Premier League game).

I've seen some people say it's just down to the players not trying/lack of ability/form. But it happens year after year against teams we really should be beating. Look at the state of this. Out of the past 13 years there are 9 or 10 games where we really should have gone through. So is that a case of players being 'out of form' or having a lack of ability? Every year? Nah, I don't go with that opinion.

2023 - Sheffield Utd
2022 - Middlesborough
2021 - Everton
2020 - Norwich
2019 - Crystal Palace
2018 - Man Utd
2017 - Chelsea
2016 - Crystal Palace
2015 - Leicester
2014 - Arsenal
2013 - Leeds
2012 - Chelsea
2011 - Fulham
2010 - Portsmouth

 

[MKSpur]

I think if you take the Leicester performance and contrast these two with the two derby wins against teams we also show a lack of bottle against its showing we just don't have any real flexibility with what works for us. Which is keep it tight and hope to wear teams down and produce a bit of magic from Kane or Kulu.

I think Emerson and Davies give us solid if not creative wingback, Romero lifts the whole back 3 from a jittery clown show, Skipp gives discipline and moves the ball quite quickly in midfield, Kane and Kulu even with the latter off form are the only 2 who can slow the game down, hold off a man and see a pass. Richarlison on the left gives us steel if not the finesse Son used too, but now he seems to want twice as many touches as necessary and offers nothing off the ball. For all the talk of attitude and the fact it was a new team I really didn't see much on terms of a plan other than Perisic to whip in a cross or Moura to run fast until he was either stopped or scored. We basically play a game that is a coin toss on who makes the first mistake, which is a real problem when we rotate our strongest back 5.

 

[Bishop]

I think if you take the Leicester performance and contrast these two with the two derby wins against teams we also show a lack of bottle against its showing we just don't have any real flexibility with what works for us. Which is keep it tight and hope to wear teams down and produce a bit of magic from Kane or Kulu.

I think Emerson and Davies give us solid if not creative wingback, Romero lifts the whole back 3 from a jittery clown show, Skipp gives discipline and moves the ball quite quickly in midfield, Kane and Kulu even with the latter off form are the only 2 who can slow the game down, hold off a man and see a pass. Richarlison on the left gives us steel if not the finesse Son used too, but now he seems to want twice as many touches as necessary and offers nothing off the ball. For all the talk of attitude and the fact it was a new team I really didn't see much on terms of a plan other than Perisic to whip in a cross or Moura to run fast until he was either stopped or scored. We basically play a game that is a coin toss on who makes the first mistake, which is a real problem when we rotate our strongest back 5.

I agree. Even with our first 11 we are very lacking in creativity with a bunch of meat and two potatoes passers. We have Kane though he's a great finisher and great spreader of the ball. Otherwise we have nothing especially if Kulu isn't selected or is off form.

But really we don't prioritise creativity, we actively select a system that highlights our lack of quality passers, the lack of vision and the general poor level of touch throughout the squad.

Its never a surprise to me that we suffer massively when we rest the starters especially Kane. We aren't good enough with the starters! [emoji28]

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[Grays_1890]

My original statement was regarding the clear 'soft belly' that Spurs have, and my opinion that there is an apparent lack of desire to go into these games giving it 100%, because they are not as attractive in terms of financial reward and prestige as there is qualifying for the Champion's League. I still maintain that this soft belly/mental attitude is a result of not really going for it in this games, starting with a weaker 11 (than we would in a Premier League game).

I've seen some people say it's just down to the players not trying/lack of ability/form. But it happens year after year against teams we really should be beating. Look at the state of this. Out of the past 13 years there are 9 or 10 games where we really should have gone through. So is that a case of players being 'out of form' or having a lack of ability? Every year? Nah, I don't go with that opinion.

2023 - Sheffield Utd
2022 - Middlesborough
2021 - Everton
2020 - Norwich
2019 - Crystal Palace
2018 - Man Utd
2017 - Chelsea
2016 - Crystal Palace
2015 - Leicester
2014 - Arsenal
2013 - Leeds
2012 - Chelsea
2011 - Fulham
2010 - Portsmouth

And I would hazard a guess, bar the top two that we would have lost to most of them in the league within a season either way? We have lost 8 games in the league this season, thats one in 3 games so far, that pretty much stacks up to our form in the cups, surely that all points towards us not being good enough at certain times that do not discriminate between the cup or the league?

Sporting Lisbon away, Emirates Marketing Project aways capitulation, Leicesters car crash, Man United away, prime time to play them roll over.....hardly confined to lesser cup competitions. Everyone comments on here and rightfully so, when we have the chance to show we are a big club ala the Man United game away (as the same last season ironically) we tend to bottle it.

You watch enough of Spurs over the years and I tell you from personal experience, these upsetting loses when you are seemingly on the cusp of something are not unique and certainly not unique to the cup

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I don't expect us to win every game, but I do expect us to pick a team to win every game. I have never believed in this fad of rotation, it might work for clubs with 17 or more very good players but generally it doesn't for the rest. If we consider the cups important we MUST pick our best teams, fine if the club believe league position is more important, just let us know and save a lot of heartache and people wasting their time and money.

 

[Mulletperm]

Lets have a look at how we fared against teams who knocked us out, in the league that year.

2021 - Everton - W1 L1
2020 - Norwich - W1 D1
2019 - Crystal Palace - W2
2018 - Man Utd - W1 L1
2017 - Chelsea - W1 L1
2016 - Crystal Palace - W2
2015 - Leicester - W2
2014 - Arsenal - L2
2013 - Leeds - N/A
2012 - Chelsea - D2
2011 - Fulham - W2
2010 - Portsmouth - W2

 

[Lilbaz]

I don't expect us to win every game, but I do expect us to pick a team to win every game. I have never believed in this fad of rotation, it might work for clubs with 17 or more very good players but generally it doesn't for the rest. If we consider the cups important we MUST pick our best teams, fine if the club believe league position is more important, just let us know and save a lot of heartache and people wasting their time and money.

Rotation is fine. One or two players here and there to give players a rest and others game time. Total overhauls? Doesn't work for us.

Did for sheff utd though.

 

[glasgowspur]

Rotation is fine. One or two players here and there to give players a rest and others game time. Total overhauls? Doesn't work for us.

Did for sheff utd though.

Romero or royal rotated out, not both.
Kane or kulu, not both. Probably kane as he needs the rest time more, also tell Richarlison that no matter how far we go he will be first choice in that position, in the cups he is our cf. Go out there and stake a claim.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Sorry rotation is just another management buzz word, rest players who need it, drop players out off form. Game is simple pick your best team for the games you must win. I agree anymore than 2 changes is not ideal and should be avoid u less injuries force that on the team. I really doesn't matter what I think "rotation" has been placed in the psyche and people just accept it. "The King is in his all together"