Club mentality - domestic cups

[Mulletperm]

Until the club stop seeing domestic cups as nothing more than a distraction, results like tonight will continue.

It was clear from the line-up that Spurs simply aren't that bothered about winning a domestic cup. It's also clear from some of the comments in the OMT that some fans feel that way too.

The problem stems from sending out a starting 11 with so many changes to our usual starting 11. This immediately makes the players subconsciously feel they don't have to try as hard, it also has the effect of pumping the opposition up.

Add to this the fact that we simply don't have the depth to put out a strong team with so many changes, and it's a recipe for disaster.

Look at our right-hand side tonight. Sanchez who is a disaster waiting to happen, Porro who has just come on board and Moura who hasn't played for ages. What kind of message does that give to the rest of the team (and the opposition)?

I appreciate the pressure/priority on Conte to get Champions League football. But for GHod's sake I'd love to see us lift some silverware again.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Until the club stop seeing domestic cups as nothing more than a distraction, results like tonight will continue.

It was clear from the line-up that Spurs simply aren't that bothered about winning a domestic cup. It's also clear from some of the comments in the OMT that some fans feel that way too.

The problem stems from sending out a starting 11 with so many changes to our usual starting 11. This immediately makes the players subconsciously feel they don't have to try as hard, it also has the effect of pumping the opposition up.

Add to this the fact that we simply don't have the depth to put out a strong team with so many changes, and it's a recipe for disaster.

Look at our right-hand side tonight. Sanchez who is a disaster waiting to happen, Porro who has just come on board and Moura who hasn't played for ages. What kind of message does that give to the rest of the team (and the opposition)?

I appreciate the pressure/priority on Conte to get Champions League football. But for GHod's sake I'd love to see us lift some silverware again.

I think it is only one fan on here that who feels that the domestic cups are a distraction isn’t it?

 

[Mulletperm]

I think it is only one fan on here that who feels that the domestic cups are a distraction isn’t it?

I saw a couple...

 

[Grays_1890]

Any sane person wants to win cups

I don't buy the rhetoric that the clubs doesn't take them serious as I've said in many posts.

We have lost scores of cup games over the last 20 years at full strength, fcuk me we would even be giving tonight's team a free pass by saying it's not them it's the club considering the strength put out should have won.

Arrogance and a chronic case of mental weakness has dogged us for years and has done way before this board turned up, it shows just as much in the league which is our so called bread and butter as it does the cups hence why I can't be having that it's just down to this imaginary telegram from higher up telling them to roll over in cups alone.

I've said it once I say it a million times, in all my years of supporting Spurs there has always been a soft and weaker underbelly that shows up tok often, seen too many times

If the side we put out was purely down to club priorities you would have to believe that they would have played the same lineup had we played a Premier League side in this tie...I personally don't believe we would have done and we would have gone stronger. Interestingly you could also argue we went stronger in previous rounds or as strong against weaker teams, Kane even played against Pompey.

 

[Mulletperm]

Any sane person wants to win cups

I don't buy the rhetoric that the clubs doesn't take them serious as I've said in many posts.

We have lost scores of cup games over the last 20 years at full strength, fcuk me we would even be giving tonight's team a free pass by saying it's not them it's the club considering the strength put out should have won.

Arrogance and a chronic case of mental weakness has dogged us for years and has done way before this board turned up, it shows just as much in the league which is our so called bread and butter as it does the cups hence why I can't be having that it's just down to this imaginary telegram from higher up telling them to roll over in cups alone.

I've said it once I say it a million times, in all my years of supporting Spurs there has always been a soft and weaker underbelly that shows up tok often, seen too many times

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Gotta disagree. Starting Mourra, Porro and Sanchez on the right-hand side sends an immediate negative message. It's possibly that negative message that instills the arrogane/mental weakness you mention.

 

[billyiddo]

Im pretty understanding of the clubs/managements position on domestic cups generally - in modern football they are below League and European performance, I get that. But this season with the way the cup was playing out we had a real chance to challenge for it given our record over City and the teams who were left in and felt we should have gone in with a full strength team tonight and got it done and to hell with the Wolves game at the weekend (we know we’ll lose that anyway knowing us)

Arsenal are gonna win the fudging league and us winning the Cup in May would have rendered that irrelevant to us, now we just have to sit back and watch it unfold

 

[Grays_1890]

Gotta disagree. Starting Mourra, Porro and Sanchez on the right-hand side sends an immediate negative message. It's possibly that negative message that instills the arrogane/mental weakness you mention.

Then don't select them? Kane played against Pompey, Deki against Preston, Royal too...so if the priority is not the cups but CL they never would have. Conte still has control over what combinations he plays picking those three was a mistake, I've said that on other threads....but that's on Conte.

But Conte has picked a team to play the team based on what he thinks would win, not yo prioritise the competition, if we had played Man United away tonight you think the same team plays? Course not so it can't be that

We played to the opposition, not the competition and it backfired because of arrogance and weakness...



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[Baleforce]

Gotta disagree. Starting Mourra, Porro and Sanchez on the right-hand side sends an immediate negative message. It's possibly that negative message that instills the arrogane/mental weakness you mention.

our CL hero (who was also our best player on the night), our superstar signing, from under the nose of all the top clubs in Europe on deadline day, who the fans have been clamouring for, and our former record signing and most expensive defender ever

depends on how you look at it

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Gotta disagree. Starting Mourra, Porro and Sanchez on the right-hand side sends an immediate negative message. It's possibly that negative message that instills the arrogane/mental weakness you mention.

£110m them 3....just saying.

 

[Mulletperm]

our CL hero (who was also our best player on the night), our superstar signing, from under the nose of all the top clubs in Europe on deadline day, who the fans have been clamouring for, and our former record signing and most expensive defender ever

depends on how you look at it

Moura - not played all season
Porro - incredibly poor in his first showing, new to the team
Sanchez - known to be incredibly up and down

 

[Jurgen the German]

our CL hero (who was also our best player on the night), our superstar signing, from under the nose of all the top clubs in Europe on deadline day, who the fans have been clamouring for, and our former record signing and most expensive defender ever

depends on how you look at it

There’s no way you can spin Sanchez. Other than his first season he’s been a disaster. Only Spurs could sign the one Ajax player who isn’t good on the ball. Ffs he couldn’t even stand up tonight without failing over.

 

[90291Spur]

The club has a different set of goals to some fans. We don't have to like it, but if you are one of the people who want to win trophies rather than get the 'promised land' of the CL, save up, buy the club, and prioritize silverware. Otherwise you have to learn to live with the different ambitions.

 

[Grays_1890]

The club has a different set of goals to some fans. We don't have to like it, but if you are one of the people who want to win trophies rather than get the 'promised land' of the CL, save up, buy the club, and prioritize silverware. Otherwise you have to learn to live with the different ambitions.

Or to some the club fails equally at most targets because that's the nature of Spurs and football unfortunately.

We lost to Sheffield United today with a team that should have won, we got slapped by Leicester in the league with a team that should have won, that's just how it is, our poor performances don't discriminate on which competition they want show up in, that's why I can't buy into the ambition being th reason we failed tonight. That and the fact, like I said previously, we have lost many a cup game with strong sides out at the business end for it to be our priorities that are the stumbling block.

The only difference is the league offers a much bigger room for error than a knock out as its played over a longer period and more games so more margin for error.






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[Mulletperm]

our CL hero (who was also our best player on the night), our superstar signing, from under the nose of all the top clubs in Europe on deadline day, who the fans have been clamouring for, and our former record signing and most expensive defender ever

depends on how you look at it

Question. Would you have been happy with that starting 11 against Arsenal or Emirates Marketing Project in a league game?

 

[Lilbaz]

Mentioned it in the other thread. I'll repeat it here.

According to levy we are the biggest payer of bonuses in the prem to players (at the time i'm sure it was true).

How much of that is weighted to cl qualification? Compared to winning a domestic cup? Cl is huge money, could mean £100m to a club or more. Domestic cup, £5m?

The players themselves might not care as much for a trophy compared to a cl place. Especially if their sponsors don't.

 

[metalgear]

Mentioned it in the other thread. I'll repeat it here.

According to levy we are the biggest payer of bonuses in the prem to players (at the time i'm sure it was true).

How much of that is weighted to cl qualification? Compared to winning a domestic cup? Cl is huge money, could mean £100m to a club or more. Domestic cup, £5m?

The players themselves might not care as much for a trophy compared to a cl place. Especially if their sponsors don't.

Surely players are motivated to win trophies too as its a way of improving future income?

 

[Bishop]

Surely players are motivated to win trophies too as its a way of improving future income?

Motivation sure, but we put out a pretty poor team. It lacked goals, it lacked creativity, it lacked balance motivation will only get you so far..

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[Lemonade Money]

Im pretty understanding of the clubs/managements position on domestic cups generally - in modern football they are below League and European performance, I get that. But this season with the way the cup was playing out we had a real chance to challenge for it given our record over City and the teams who were left in and felt we should have gone in with a full strength team tonight and got it done and to hell with the Wolves game at the weekend (we know we’ll lose that anyway knowing us)

Arsenal are gonna win the fudging league and us winning the Cup in May would have rendered that irrelevant to us, now we just have to sit back and watch it unfold

Perhaps the club's stance should stay as prioritising PL and CL for the obvious reasons, but with the proviso that if a lesser cup competition (including Europa) pans out like the FA Cup this year and a route to the final looks favourable, that we'll go full strength for the fans, rather than for the money. I think the fans would really appreciate that show of intent, and I don't think they would be critical if at the same time we just missed out on CL qualification. Surely the increase in stadium imcome can allow us this luxury?

 

[Baleforce]

Question. Would you have been happy with that starting 11 against Arsenal or Emirates Marketing Project in a league game?

depends on the context

 

[Lilbaz]

Surely players are motivated to win trophies too as its a way of improving future income?

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure everyone at spurs wants to win a trophy. Just think getting cl is the priority. Which might mean giving 95% in a cup game rather than 100%.

I dunno.