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Circus ManUnitus - Erik's At The Wheel

On average teams pick up less points in weeks with European matches, but it's a small sample size. Who you're playing and whether it's home or away plays just as big a part.

http://www.skysports.com/football/n...eague-impact-on-premier-league-teams-analysed

I saw mentioned elsewhere that Europa League qualifiers generally do better in the league the following season when they're in it, but that includes teams that have been cup winners or runners up (some of them relegated).
 
It's not SIGNIFCANTLY worse. If one team had won in stead of drawn, it would be pretty much on par with a points total of a top 4 finish. The sample is also too small to make a sensible conclusion.
 
Kandi1977 said:
It's not SIGNIFCANTLY worse. If one team had won in stead of drawn, it would be pretty much on par with a points total of a top 4 finish. The sample is also too small to make a sensible conclusion.
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One win instead of one draw would have meant 1.5 points per game on average for the 6 teams, over a season that would be 57 points. Last season Liverpool had 60 points in 8th, season before that Southampton had 60 points in 7th, year before that United had 64 in 7th, year before that Liverpool had 61 in 7th. So in none of the last 4 season would 57 points be enough for a team to finish higher than 7th. Quite a bit off top 4, never mind challenging for a title as we expect/want City, Arsenal and ourselves to do.

Of course the sample size is small. This was just a quick example from this weekend. Larger sample sizes have been studies though and the findings seem to show that there is a "European hangover effect".
 
braineclipse said:
One win instead of one draw would have meant 1.5 points per game on average for the 6 teams, over a season that would be 57 points. Last season Liverpool had 60 points in 8th, season before that Southampton had 60 points in 7th, year before that United had 64 in 7th, year before that Liverpool had 61 in 7th. So in none of the last 4 season would 57 points be enough for a team to finish higher than 7th. Quite a bit off top 4, never mind challenging for a title as we expect/want City, Arsenal and ourselves to do.

Of course the sample size is small. This was just a quick example from this weekend. Larger sample sizes have been studies though and the findings seem to show that there is a "European hangover effect".
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What is your point exactly? We should avoid finishing higher than 8th so we don't play in europe?
 
braineclipse said:
Great guess at what my point is.

My point is essentially summed up in the final 6 words of my previous post. There is a "European hangover effect".
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And since all the other teams in Europe also seem to suffer from this so called hangover, it shouldn't really matter right? And if you then state that chelsea and Liverpool are not in Europe, then your point must be that we shouldn't be in Europe, because it affects your performance in the leage. That again means that we can never challenge for the title, as that means we will play in the CL league the year after.
 
Kandi1977 said:
And since all the other teams in Europe also seem to suffer from this so called hangover, it shouldn't really matter right? And if you then state that chelsea and Liverpool are not in Europe, then your point must be that we shouldn't be in Europe, because it affects your performance in the leage. That again means that we can never challenge for the title, as that means we will play in the CL league the year after.
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You really think this is my point or a logical inference of my point? Or you just trying to be funny? You really see no other point that could possibly be more reasonable than this based on what I've written?
 
@Kandi1977 "That again means that we can never challenge for the title, as that means we will play in the CL league the year after."

This is an interesting. Is this a "dichotomy" not sure?
But one thing is for sure it has some merit in todays EPL.
 
The talk now is that Mkhitariyan was only signed as a favour to Raiola. As long as they insist on only signing the most overpriced players out there or whoever Raiola/Mendes wants them to, they're stuck in their current rut.
 
StephenH said:
Personally I think we look dodgy coping with either. ;)
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I agree, it was/is never going to be easy to cope on a regular basis playing three games a week, however all the gonad*s that some fans kept coming out with about the EL being hard because of the amount of time between games is no different then the CL.

It is what is is and whinging about one cup over another is gonad*s ( imo), not saying people on here thought we are/were too good to play in the EL but believe me i have met/heard a few give that opinion.
 
parklane1 said:
I agree, it was/is never going to be easy to cope on a regular basis playing three games a week, however all the cobblers that some fans kept coming out with about the EL being hard because of the amount of time between games is no different then the CL.

It is what is is and whinging about one cup over another is cobblers ( imo), not saying people on here thought we are/were too good to play in the EL but believe me i have met/heard a few give that opinion.
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Im a little ambivalent towards cups and Europe. Until we can properly finance our squad to cope with these situations accordingly we will always using sticking plasters ( youth players who should be out on permanent loan learning 'for another thread') to cover our shortfalls in these games.
 
parklane1 said:
You are joking, go back and read some of the comments here and elsewhere when we were playing in the EL.
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My point has always been that playing in Europe (CL or EL) poses an additional challenge/problem to any team. Related to that, not being in Europe is likely to benefit league performance. Being in the EL for us was "harder" than not being in Europe at all, but not harder than being in the CL.

The only exception for me is that the money involved in the CL makes it somewhat easier for teams to cope with the added fixtures as they can spend more on transfers and wages. The EL doesn't provide as much income and could perhaps take a greater toll on a smaller squad. This is clearly not a relevant factor for Manu this season considering their spending this summer.
 
I don't think there is any difference playing Wed/Sat and Thurs/Sun, but statistical clubs playing in the CL played more often on Sunday than Saturday as their games had been chosen for TV. Playing in the EL teams tend to travel greater distances with more clubs in that competition being in eastern europe. The real problem is when you play an away game on Thursday and don't return to the UK until the early hours of Friday morning, teams probably get the rest of the day off and if they are playing away at the other end of the country on Sunday they will travel on Saturday, it leaves little time for practice or treatment.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I don't think there is any difference playing Wed/Sat and Thurs/Sun, but statistical clubs playing in the CL played more often on Sunday than Saturday as their games had been chosen for TV. Playing in the EL teams tend to travel greater distances with more clubs in that competition being in eastern europe. The real problem is when you play an away game on Thursday and don't return to the UK until the early hours of Friday morning, teams probably get the rest of the day off and if they are playing away at the other end of the country on Sunday they will travel on Saturday, it leaves little time for practice or treatment.
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That is not really the case though, the legend i hear from so many fans about ALL the greater distances we travel in the EL is a myth really. There are longer journeys but a mate of mine who travels all over Europe to these games got sick to death of all the moaning minnies who kept saying " We travel far larger/greater distances in the EL then the CL he did this a couple of years ago.

As i say its a couple of years out of date but it puts to be the myth that we " Travel far greater/further in the EL then the CL)

Since we got back into Europe in 2006/07 we-have done the Following Europa League mileage: -



2006/07 to 4307 miles (861 average per game)

2007/08 to 5,308 miles (1,061 average per game)

2008/09 to 3547 miles (886 average per game)

2011/12 to 3941 miles (985 average per game)

2012/13 to 4651 miles (avaerage 775 per game)

2013/14 to 9,056 miles (1,509 average per game)



As you can see this season has-been an anomoly with us traveling 3748 miles more than we've ever done in one season before!



Over Our entire time in the Europa League over the above seasons (30 games) we-have on average Travelled 1,027 miles per game. If you take out this season All which has-been high abnormaly Then it works out at an average of 906 miles per game (24 games).



In contrast the average distance from London for the teams in this years CL group stage is 757 miles.



So leaving aside this seasons abnormaly long trips the average game away Europa is just 149 miles further than the average CL away game. To Put That in perspective it's about 20-30 minutes flying time along. Hardly I think that's going to make much difference!
 
parklane1 said:
That is not really the case though, the legend i hear from so many fans about ALL the greater distances we travel in the EL is a myth really. There are longer journeys but a mate of mine who travels all over Europe to these games got sick to death of all the moaning minnies who kept saying " We travel far larger/greater distances in the EL then the CL he did this a couple of years ago.

As i say its a couple of years out of date but it puts to be the myth that we " Travel far greater/further in the EL then the CL)

Since we got back into Europe in 2006/07 we-have done the Following Europa League mileage: -



2006/07 to 4307 miles (861 average per game)

2007/08 to 5,308 miles (1,061 average per game)

2008/09 to 3547 miles (886 average per game)

2011/12 to 3941 miles (985 average per game)

2012/13 to 4651 miles (avaerage 775 per game)

2013/14 to 9,056 miles (1,509 average per game)



As you can see this season has-been an anomoly with us traveling 3748 miles more than we've ever done in one season before!

I wouldn't



Over Our entire time in the Europa League over the above seasons (30 games) we-have on average Travelled 1,027 miles per game. If you take out this season All which has-been high abnormaly Then it works out at an average of 906 miles per game (24 games).



In contrast the average distance from London for the teams in this years CL group stage is 757 miles.

I wouldn't dispute the figures as they prove what I said about further distances, but as I said it's the next game schedule which can cause problems.


So leaving aside this seasons abnormaly long trips the average game away Europa is just 149 miles further than the average CL away game. To Put That in perspective it's about 20-30 minutes flying time along. Hardly I think that's going to make much difference!
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