"Champions of 3rd place, we know what we are"

[Gazza Dazzla]

Ugh, the subs thing again. So tiresome, so boring, so wrong.

As far as I could see your argument against it was “he’s the manager, so knows better, so can’t be wrong”?

That was during international break though and things were getting a bit strange on here so I stayed away after I saw that and a few other similarly strange posts. If it developed beyond “the manager always knows best” then apologies.

 

[billyiddo]

Fair enough, that's an interesting perspective. Taking that view might make us a bit more relaxed in the future before big games and if we fall short there is always another game, another season.......

Honestly mate the idea that supporters don't recognize the need to improve or that those arguing against you here are 'happy clappers' or whatever is ridiculous afaic and comes down to you and others focussing on the negative aspects of the season more so than the rest of us - what exactly do you expect to see from people in that regard? Should we all just be moping around rueing another trophyless season? Unless the end goal is that the current setup aren't the right people to take us on i don't really see the point in continually going on about it personally

Edit to say : the goal, as always, in the summer will be to improve the team/squad - that will be the focus of discussion for the most part over the summer, where we need to improve the team in order to improve on our performance this season - if we get that right our chances next season of winning a trophy increases.

 

[Daisuk]

The reason going 10 points clear of Chelsea after we won at their place was a good thing was ... it gave us a buffer, so that in the quite likely case that we'd drop a few points here and there (which of course is normal for any team in football) it would still mean we'd have a good chance of reaching our goal of CL football. We did that! We made it. The buffer saved us, it allowed us to drop a few points (I'm not saying we dropped points because we slacked off because we could), but we still made it! I wouldn't call that crawling over the line at all. Not a lot of people expected CL qualification for us before the start of the season, but here we are.

Let's say we had those last few games in the middle of the season instead of now, and had that great run we had from January to April now at the end of the season - would the season overall be looked upon as better by the fans that are now moaning? Very likely! Football fans and pundits are so focused on the now (the last 2-3 matches) it's ridiculous. Kane has had a few below par matches, and all of a sudden he's brick and a 4 season wonder all over again. A season is a long series of matches, you can't expect a team to have a glorious run throughout the entire thing, there will be relatively poor periods, and there will be good periods. Over the course of the season we've been good enough to currently sit 3rd in the table, higher than the much lauded Liverpool team everyone seems to love (and understandably so). I just don't think there's a way to even suggest that's a poor feat, especially considering our circumstances, less money than all our rivals, as well as playing the entire season away from home. It's just that we've been a bit below par in our last few matches, which isn't a big thing at all. It's to be expected over the course of a season. In comparison, ManU have had much longer periods than us over the course of this season where they've scraped wins and had so much rub of the green it's been ridiculous.

 

[harr1984]

The reason going 10 points clear of Chelsea after we won at their place was a good thing was ... it gave us a buffer, so that in the quite likely case that we'd drop a few points here and there (which of course is normal for any team in football) it would still mean we'd have a good chance of reaching our goal of CL football. We did that! We made it. The buffer saved us, it allowed us to drop a few points (I'm not saying we dropped points because we slacked off because we could), but we still made it! I wouldn't call that crawling over the line at all. Not a lot of people expected CL qualification for us before the start of the season, but here we are.

Let's say we had those last few games in the middle of the season instead of now, and had that great run we had from January to April now at the end of the season - would the season overall be looked upon as better by the fans that are now moaning? Very likely! Football fans and pundits are so focused on the now (the last 2-3 matches) it's ridiculous. Kane has had a few below par matches, and all of a sudden he's brick and a 4 season wonder all over again. A season is a long series of matches, you can't expect a team to have a glorious run throughout the entire thing, there will be relatively poor periods, and there will be good periods. Over the course of the season we've been good enough to currently sit 3rd in the table, higher than the much lauded Liverpool team everyone seems to love (and understandably so). I just don't think there's a way to even suggest that's a poor feat, especially considering our circumstances, less money than all our rivals, as well as playing the entire season away from home. It's just that we've been a bit below par in our last few matches, which isn't a big thing at all. It's to be expected over the course of a season. In comparison, ManU have had much longer periods than us over the course of this season where they've scraped wins and had so much rub of the green it's been ridiculous.

Agree with your post but have to ask - Who has said Kane is brick? All Ive seen in the media is people saying he's been below par since his injury which he quite clearly has....

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

I don't think everybody would agree with that, I think some will accept whatever is thrown up in front of them and use the lack of finances etc as some crown to wear. If you don't strive for better and just say oh well then how do you expect to get any better? Its that sort of mentality we need rid of if we want to actually compete at the very top otherwise we are just taking part really

Do you really think the club isn’t striving to get better?

Three consecutive CL qualifications for the first time. A new stadium. A genius young manager.

We’re in the middle of being better right now. We should recognise that. And say what you like about finances, the fact is we *are* consistently ahead of some of the batch of clubs with finances vastly greater than ours. That should be lauded, not dismissed.

And recognising that we are better than we were doesn’t mean there isn’t more to come.

 

[The_Midlands_Yid]

Another 3 points on the weekend and it’s three in a row in the top 3, if that’s not a drastic improvement then I don’t know what is. Is there work to be done still? Of course, but we are on another level to the team we were 10 years ago. Onwards and upwards.

 

[Ade's folks are ok really]

The reason going 10 points clear of Chelsea after we won at their place was a good thing was ... it gave us a buffer, so that in the quite likely case that we'd drop a few points here and there (which of course is normal for any team in football) it would still mean we'd have a good chance of reaching our goal of CL football. We did that! We made it. The buffer saved us, it allowed us to drop a few points (I'm not saying we dropped points because we slacked off because we could), but we still made it! I wouldn't call that crawling over the line at all. Not a lot of people expected CL qualification for us before the start of the season, but here we are.

Let's say we had those last few games in the middle of the season instead of now, and had that great run we had from January to April now at the end of the season - would the season overall be looked upon as better by the fans that are now moaning? Very likely! Football fans and pundits are so focused on the now (the last 2-3 matches) it's ridiculous. Kane has had a few below par matches, and all of a sudden he's brick and a 4 season wonder all over again. A season is a long series of matches, you can't expect a team to have a glorious run throughout the entire thing, there will be relatively poor periods, and there will be good periods. Over the course of the season we've been good enough to currently sit 3rd in the table, higher than the much lauded Liverpool team everyone seems to love (and understandably so). I just don't think there's a way to even suggest that's a poor feat, especially considering our circumstances, less money than all our rivals, as well as playing the entire season away from home. It's just that we've been a bit below par in our last few matches, which isn't a big thing at all. It's to be expected over the course of a season. In comparison, ManU have had much longer periods than us over the course of this season where they've scraped wins and had so much rub of the green it's been ridiculous.

Totally agree with this post. And i think your far more likely to find others who also agree now that the dust has settled on the achievement and we can calmly have some perspective on the season, rather than the sheer panic that was the Glory-Glory forum on Wednesday morning.

However, I would add (and slightly to the contrary i know), that the reason the past 3-4 games have been so highly focused on is because we are at that "business end" of the season when titles / relegations / European qualification / playoffs / Cup finals etc are decided. And like it or loathe it, this is when the pressure is on and the media ramp up their attentions.
So having an equivalent blip mid-season doesn't matter so much, as you have chances to recover those points. Lose games now and you're likely to get fudged over! It's when players must show their mettle and, dare i say it, their bottle!

However, we made it. We're all relieved. But at a time when we needed to show our bottle and spirit as a club, we really haven't performed too well. Even the wins over Watford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine could've easily gone against us on another day. So i do totally understand why people think we "limped over the line".

It's an interesting debate. Taking a step back and looking at what we've achieved this season, against those with far more spending power than us, we've done so well. But we've been well below par lately at a time when we usually run-in quite strongly.

 

[Libero]

Honestly mate the idea that supporters don't recognize the need to improve or that those arguing against you here are 'happy clappers' or whatever is ridiculous afaic and comes down to you and others focussing on the negative aspects of the season more so than the rest of us - what exactly do you expect to see from people in that regard? Should we all just be moping around rueing another trophyless season? Unless the end goal is that the current setup aren't the right people to take us on i don't really see the point in continually going on about it personally

Edit to say : the goal, as always, in the summer will be to improve the team/squad - that will be the focus of discussion for the most part over the summer, where we need to improve the team in order to improve on our performance this season - if we get that right our chances next season of winning a trophy increases.

As I said before, some people feel genuinely because we were brick for 15 years that we should be happy with our lot, those people are happy clappers and won't have a single word uttered against the current running of the club because it is in a better state than 1991-2006. I am discussing a negative point within the season, doesn't mean I'm moping. I don't imagine that it is a large portion of the fan base but it definitely exists. My opinion on it I feel is balanced, I am pretty disappointed with the end to the season and no trophy but I think that 3rd or 4th is a great end result when we were playing away from home and we have had some fantastic performances at Wembley considering it was such a millstone around our necks at the start.

In terms of whether the people running the club are right to take us forward, this summer will probably tell us everything we need to know. They have done a lot of good, delivery of the training ground, stadium etc is superb but if the manager isn't backed adequately again then what really is the point of getting into the CL? what is it really funding? The chairman's pay rise? You can't charge the second highest prices in the world behind PSG at a club where we aren't delivering the tangible glory that ultimately this club is about and buy on the cheap.........we just turn into Arsenal 2.0 then really without the trophies.

 

[StephenH]

Taking a step back and looking at what we've achieved this season, against those with far more spending power than us, we've done so well.

^^^^This^^^^

 

[Libero]

Totally agree with this post. And i think your far more likely to find others who also agree now that the dust has settled on the achievement and we can calmly have some perspective on the season, rather than the sheer panic that was the Glory-Glory forum on Wednesday morning.

However, I would add (and slightly to the contrary i know), that the reason the past 3-4 games have been so highly focused on is because we are at that "business end" of the season when titles / relegations / European qualification / playoffs / Cup finals etc are decided. And like it or loathe it, this is when the pressure is on and the media ramp up their attentions.
So having an equivalent blip mid-season doesn't matter so much, as you have chances to recover those points. Lose games now and you're likely to get fudged over! It's when players must show their mettle and, dare i say it, their bottle!

However, we made it. We're all relieved. But at a time when we needed to show our bottle and spirit as a club, we really haven't performed too well. Even the wins over Watford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine could've easily gone against us on another day. So i do totally understand why people think we "limped over the line".

It's an interesting debate. Taking a step back and looking at what we've achieved this season, against those with far more spending power than us, we've done so well. But we've been well below par lately at a time when we usually run-in quite strongly.

To be fair, you have probably summed up what I have said without sounding quite as tinkled off about it

 

[billyiddo]

As I said before, some people feel genuinely because we were brick for 15 years that we should be happy with our lot, those people are happy clappers and won't have a single word uttered against the current running of the club because it is in a better state than 1991-2006. I am discussing a negative point within the season, doesn't mean I'm moping. I don't imagine that it is a large portion of the fan base but it definitely exists. My opinion on it I feel is balanced, I am pretty disappointed with the end to the season and no trophy but I think that 3rd or 4th is a great end result when we were playing away from home and we have had some fantastic performances at Wembley considering it was such a millstone around our necks at the start.

In terms of whether the people running the club are right to take us forward, this summer will probably tell us everything we need to know. They have done a lot of good, delivery of the training ground, stadium etc is superb but if the manager isn't backed adequately again then what really is the point of getting into the CL? what is it really funding? The chairman's pay rise? You can't charge the second highest prices in the world behind PSG at a club where we aren't delivering the tangible glory that ultimately this club is about and buy on the cheap.........we just turn into Arsenal 2.0 then really without the trophies.

Reading your posts i do tend to think that you're misconstruing where people are coming from and that is the root of the disagreement because i think what you say here :

I am pretty disappointed with the end to the season and no trophy but I think that 3rd or 4th is a great end result when we were playing away from home and we have had some fantastic performances at Wembley considering it was such a millstone around our necks at the start


Would be true of every Spurs on the planet - including those you're refering to as happy clappers - id certainly be interested to hear from any fan on this board that isnt dissapointed that we haven't won a trophy or with the slump we have had since the Chelsea game - I'll repeat my earlier question to you : what is it you expect to see here?

 

[Robspur12]

Totally agree with this post. And i think your far more likely to find others who also agree now that the dust has settled on the achievement and we can calmly have some perspective on the season, rather than the sheer panic that was the Glory-Glory forum on Wednesday morning.

However, I would add (and slightly to the contrary i know), that the reason the past 3-4 games have been so highly focused on is because we are at that "business end" of the season when titles / relegations / European qualification / playoffs / Cup finals etc are decided. And like it or loathe it, this is when the pressure is on and the media ramp up their attentions.
So having an equivalent blip mid-season doesn't matter so much, as you have chances to recover those points. Lose games now and you're likely to get fudged over! It's when players must show their mettle and, dare i say it, their bottle!

However, we made it. We're all relieved. But at a time when we needed to show our bottle and spirit as a club, we really haven't performed too well. Even the wins over Watford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine could've easily gone against us on another day. So i do totally understand why people think we "limped over the line".

It's an interesting debate. Taking a step back and looking at what we've achieved this season, against those with far more spending power than us, we've done so well. But we've been well below par lately at a time when we usually run-in quite strongly.

Or an alternative view could be that it showed a lot of bottle, resilience even to get over the line when the team is tired or having a dip in form. I don't get this relentless down playing of achievements. Why can we not just be pleased we got there? Probably get labelled a happy clapper now.

 

[Bullet]

effectively going to a "tipless diamond" 4-3-3 shape

Henceforth known as THE HEXAGON.
4-Hex

 

[jts1882]

Might a hex be unlucky?

 

[Bullet]

Nope. Awesome song.

Some of the most bizarre lyrics evs:

Capistrano swallow, answer to your inner voice and please return,
GHod installed that radar in your pointy little beak so you'd return.

Architecture students are like virgins with an itch they cannot scratch,
Never build a building till you're 50 what kind of life is that?

 

[GGyid]

For anyone interested in Pots, this is a good summary.

https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnati...enham-hotspur-champions-league-pots-standings

 

[parklane1]

Ugh, the subs thing again. So tiresome, so boring, so wrong.

Indeed.

There have been some good points made in all posts over the last day or two, i agree with some better then others but it is all about opinions. However the one that gets me is those who say /suggest that the manager is not backed by our chairman, this is the same gonad*s ( imo) that some fans have been trotting out for ages about Levy ( thankfully not as many fans as they used to be). We are not financially doped like some clubs ( thank GHod) and Levy has done a very good job to enable us to be were we are. And yet they are still some who say he does not do enough.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

As I said before, some people feel genuinely because we were brick for 15 years that we should be happy with our lot, those people are happy clappers and won't have a single word uttered against the current running of the club because it is in a better state than 1991-2006. I am discussing a negative point within the season, doesn't mean I'm moping. I don't imagine that it is a large portion of the fan base but it definitely exists. My opinion on it I feel is balanced, I am pretty disappointed with the end to the season and no trophy but I think that 3rd or 4th is a great end result when we were playing away from home and we have had some fantastic performances at Wembley considering it was such a millstone around our necks at the start.

In terms of whether the people running the club are right to take us forward, this summer will probably tell us everything we need to know. They have done a lot of good, delivery of the training ground, stadium etc is superb but if the manager isn't backed adequately again then what really is the point of getting into the CL? what is it really funding? The chairman's pay rise? You can't charge the second highest prices in the world behind PSG at a club where we aren't delivering the tangible glory that ultimately this club is about and buy on the cheap.........we just turn into Arsenal 2.0 then really without the trophies.

Arsenal got laughed at because they went from a position of power, as a perennial title challenger, to being satisfied purely with the top 4. And Wenger then even said he couldn't possibly challenge for the title with all of these monied clubs and 4th should be seen as a trophy. Even though they were probably always at worst the 4th best team. They get laughed at for that because of where they came from.

If we continue to get top 4, top 3, despite having at best the 6th best ability to pay wages and transfers, having bought players and improved them under great coaching, and got the whole club pulling in the same direction, it's absolutely still a great achievement. We went from mid-table nothingness, to best of the rest, to the occasional top 4 finish, to doing it 3 years in a row. We get credit because of where we have come from. Anf of course the ambition is to still improve and win trophies, but think about our context vs that of Arsenal's.

 

[billyiddo]

An even comparison to the Arsenal 4th place trophy stuff would be us settling for and celebrating finishing 6th

 

[Libero]

Arsenal got laughed at because they went from a position of power, as a perennial title challenger, to being satisfied purely with the top 4. And Wenger then even said he couldn't possibly challenge for the title with all of these monied clubs and 4th should be seen as a trophy. Even though they were probably always at worst the 4th best team. They get laughed at for that because of where they came from.

If we continue to get top 4, top 3, despite having at best the 6th best ability to pay wages and transfers, having bought players and improved them under great coaching, and got the whole club pulling in the same direction, it's absolutely still a great achievement. We went from mid-table nothingness, to best of the rest, to the occasional top 4 finish, to doing it 3 years in a row. We get credit because of where we have come from. Anf of course the ambition is to still improve and win trophies, but think about our context vs that of Arsenal's.

I definitely agree with you on the context, Our change from where we were means our goals and aims are slightly different but I don't personally want it to be that getting 4th is over and above a trophy, not that it should be one or the other, it should be both ideally. But my feeling on the context is that we haven't always been poor. We were decent and an established top 5 side that would win a few cups throughout a decade and finish in the top 5/6 75% of the time during that decade with the odd blip, then of course we have the 15 years or so of complete dross which we have turned round so we are really returning to type and that should be a side that manages to win trophies at times whilst finishing highly in the league most seasons and therefore my expectations ae not just to constantly qualify for the CL just because it brings money in, I want to have a go and for that the chairman can do more imo and we have the resources to do more. One £30m signing in the summer and some gap fillers won't cut it but some people will still say that that is adequate backing and the chairman has done so much, what more do you want etc.

I can only hope that we really have a go in the transfer market, I think we need it. The depth isn't there and the quality waiting to come in certainly isn't. The team do look tired and with a world cup also involved this summer our key players are only going to come back even more tired. If the chairman allows Pochettino to spend a significant sum after sales of say, £75m - £80m then I most certainly wouldn't have any complaints because I would consider that adequate backing. If it is pretty much a zero net spend then I would feel it is unlikely that we have recruited enough going forward. Time will tell I guess going forward throughout the summer.