Champions League 2015/16

[Baleforce]

You'd still see these players if you watched the Spanish league. Used to be a time when teams like Valencia, Sevilla, Deportivo et al could actually compete with Real and Barca.

some of them, some in Germany too, you do get some truly epic nights in the CL though, storied behemoths slugging it out, rememebr that Madrid vs Dortmund game, Barca vs Bayern, Ajax vs Juve, the European Cup can deliver incredible entertainment

 

[Neymar]

I will actually make the utmost of effort to avoid it. Pro boxing is all about the rich getting richer and in the end the best fighters don't win.

if the best fighters arent winning, who's winning?

im not a boxing fan, but from what i can see, the attraction of boxing is very similar to that of football. in general terms, you are seeing the best. there appears to be little barrier to entry. tyson, paquiao, mayweather are all people that came from limited backgrounds to become the world reknown athletes that they are today - i think fans really get behind these kind of stories on a subconsicous level. i think this is one of the main draws of boxing (and football) compared to a sport like rowing.

I watched some of the Olympic boxing, but I generally only watch one or two boxing matches a year and they tend to be Cecilia Brækhus. She's Norwegian,obviously, and she's actually pretty damn good. In both instances: Less hype and better fights.

in what way is that a better fight than mayweather vs paquiao?

 

[Neymar]

one thing that bugs me,

why do footballers get the stick they do for earning what they do, but boxers dont seem to? boxers even have the arrogance to outright promote and say the fight is just about money. at least footballers have the decency to say they just want to compete at the top (and the money is just a side effect from having competed at the top)

 

[Jordinho]

but then we wouldnt be seeing the best vs the best anymore.

and in cases like psg, chelsea and city, its not money earnt through football that they are investing. its the investor's own personal money.

I don't want to see the 100 best players hoarded by 6-8 clubs and watch them play each other every season. I want to see the best of each league pitted against each other. Football has stopped getting better, now it's just getting boring as it's more about nullifying each other than trying to play the game. I want the domestic leagues to be won by clubs outside the small handful that gets the CL income.

 

[Jordinho]

if the best fighters arent winning, who's winning?

im not a boxing fan, but from what i can see, the attraction of boxing is very similar to that of football. in general terms, you are seeing the best. there appears to be little barrier to entry. tyson, paquiao, mayweather are all people that came from limited backgrounds to become the world reknown athletes that they are today - i think fans really get behind these kind of stories on a subconsicous level. i think this is one of the main draws of boxing (and football) compared to a sport like rowing.



in what way is that a better fight than mayweather vs paquiao?

The fighter with the dirtiest promoter wins, but it doesn't matter as they all get filthy rich anyway.

The Olympics was better as it really meant something to the fighters and it was a more open competition. Not like the pros were the reigning champions puts away fodder and occasionally slugs it out against a contender in a bore fest.

 

[Jordinho]

one thing that bugs me,

why do footballers get the stick they do for earning what they do, but boxers dont seem to? boxers even have the arrogance to outright promote and say the fight is just about money. at least footballers have the decency to say they just want to compete at the top (and the money is just a side effect from having competed at the top)

I don't see pro boxing as a sport. It's closer to wrestling, as so much is decided by how much money there is to be made.

 

[Baleforce]

I don't want to see the 100 best players hoarded by 6-8 clubs and watch them play each other every season. I want to see the best of each league pitted against each other. Football has stopped getting better, now it's just getting boring as it's more about nullifying each other than trying to play the game. I want the domestic leagues to be won by clubs outside the small handful that gets the CL income.

there is something tactically fascinating about that though, I've seen 0-0's far more interesting than 4-3's or 3-2's, defending is as much part of the game as attacking

 

[Jordinho]

Pot 1

Real, Atletico, City, Bayern, Juventus, Benfica, PSG, Shaktar

Pot 2

CSKA Moscow, Ajax, Galatasaray, Anderlecht, Olympiakos, Basel, APOEL, Nicosia, Aalborg

Pot 3

Salzburg, Sparta Praha, Steaua Bucuresti, Maccabi Tel-Aviv, BATE Borisov, Legia Warzawa, Dinamo Zagreb, Malmø

Pot 4

Celtic, Partizan Belgrade, Slovan Bratislava, Molde, Ludogorets, Debrecen, Maribor, Dinamo Tbilisi

You're only missing Barca really. Nobody cares about Chelsea. Could always skip the last pot in favour of cup winners (or league runners up).

Barca, Arsenal, Dortmund, Napoli, Porto, Guingamp, Dynamo Kiev, FK Rostov

Would this make for a much worse competition? In the group stage, not at all. Knock rounds would be pretty much the same from the QFs.

Might even force clubs to spend less on wages and invest their money properly as they won't be in the competition every season (Bayern, Barca, Real, Porto and Juventus excluded).

 

[Baleforce]

I think that would force them to spend more on wages, a hell of a lot more, as now it's not about top 4 it's about top 1

you'd concentrate the talent into even fewer clubs

 

[Jordinho]

I think that would force them to spend more on wages, a hell of a lot more, as now it's not about top 4 it's about top 1

you'd concentrate the talent into even fewer clubs

It's impossible to guarantee top two finishes every season, even in Spain. I think it would make at least some players consider lesser clubs as CL football is no longer guaranteed.

 

[Baleforce]

It's impossible to guarantee top two finishes every season, even in Spain. I think it would make at least some players consider lesser clubs as CL football is no longer guaranteed.

it is impossible, that's never gonna enter the mindsets of the owners though

also players will insist on shorter contracts with stronger release clauses

 

[Neymar]

Would this make for a much worse competition?

the problem is your pot 1 teams wouldnt want to play in that competition if a rival competition is set up with the missing teams. and you would end up with what is effectively the europa league

 

[Jordinho]

the problem is your pot 1 teams wouldnt want to play in that competition if a rival competition is set up with the missing teams. and you would end up with what is effectively the europa league

The rival competition would be the Europa League It just means the 6th and 7th best teams from some leagues won't get in any more.

 

[Baleforce]

I think it makes things even more uneven for teams in leagues with one dominant force, take that extra CL money away from the German teams and bayerns financial advantage is multiplied

 

[Neymar]

I think it makes things even more uneven for teams in leagues with one dominant force, take that extra CL money away from the German teams and bayerns financial advantage is multiplied

thats a very good point.

in england, at least theres one team (arsenal) who can kind of dream of winning the league one day. take the cl money off them, and only manutd+oil clubs can win the league. not only that, teams like us can dream of ucl qualification; ie. we have something to play for. without the 2-4th cl spots, what the hell would we do? we'd just be another Saudi Sportswashing Machine. mindlessly playing football with no aims or ambitions

 

[Jordinho]

thats a very good point.

in england, at least theres one team (arsenal) who can kind of dream of winning the league one day. take the cl money off them, and only manutd+oil clubs can win the league. not only that, teams like us can dream of ucl qualification; ie. we have something to play for. without the 2-4th cl spots, what the hell would we do? we'd just be another Saudi Sportswashing Machine. mindlessly playing football with no aims or ambitions

What did we do in the 50 years before it became a closed shop to fuel the already rich?

Everyone outside the top half of the PL should just shut down. No country would need more than 10 clubs at most.

 

[Baleforce]

it would destroy arsenal, the other 3 would take it on rotation depending on who got luckiest with how their billion £'s of new purchases performed

building a squad in the PL would become impossible, which would be fine as it would be pointless anyway

 

[Baleforce]

What did we do in the 50 years before it became a closed shop to fuel the already rich?

Everyone outside the top half of the PL should just shut down. No country would need more than 10 clubs at most.

it was very different then

I get what you are trying to do but your solution doesn't change the incentive, it just makes the hoops smaller

any change would require the uefa cup to be normalised against the CL, minimising financial reward for continental competition and putting the onus back on domestic football under a salary cap is the only thing that can work in my view

 

[jts1882]

i think whatever system used, theres going to be people that think another system is better. the reason i prefer the old method is because i think its more reflective of the actual abilities of the teams. ie. the likes of zenit and benfica will be in pot 1 in the new system, and they clearly arent one of the top 8 teams in europe. at least there was an argument that all of the teams in the old pot 1 were europe's best 8 teams.

i think now theres going to be a lot more scenarios whereby pot1 teams are going to be in tougher groups than some pot2 teams.

Agreed there will be some pot 1 teams in tougher groups than some pot 2 teams. But this largely only concerns coming first or second in the group. The changes are largely just shuffling the top two pots, as the extra champions getting into pot 1 will be moving up from pot 2, not from 3 or 4.

The key to groups of death is quality teams in pots 3 and 4. I'd like to see only one team from each league in a pot. So the four English teams get distributed one per pot. That way there would be some good Spanish, English, Germany and Italian clubs in the lower pots. It would spice up the group phase and fourth place qualifiers would get a tougher ride.

 

[NorwegianSpursFan]

edit: wrong thread