milo
Jack L. Jones
If we could ask Poch the same question, what do you think his answer would be?
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Bender
- Thread starter Maltese Falcon
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If we could ask Poch the same question, what do you think his answer would be?
Maltese Falcon
Niko Kranjcar
That's not what you asked though, was it?
Having said that, how do you really know what Poch wants? The first teams he put out had a classical DM in Capoue and the only reason he did not persist could well be due to Capoue's crapness and, later, Stambouli's poor performances - not necessarily because he did not want a more defensive minded central midfielder.
I am only going by that three minute clip but to my mind there is no comparison between the lumbering Capoue and the clearly much more mobile and active Bender. I can easily see him playing in 3 man midfield with Bentaleb and Eriksen providing the platform for the latter two to be predominantly offensive.
So the fact that bentaleb makes 68 pass backs per game has nothing to do with that?
Are we really using these kind of stats and YouTube clips to decide on a player? Lol
DublinSpur
Scott Parker
Well we are, cos that's all we've got to go on. You'd hope the club aren't though.
24. Bentaleb makes more passes in every direction because he passes more. If the better option is a backwards pass then that's the option I'd rather he took.
I don't think I've heard criticism of Bentaleb's passing from anyone with a functioning brain before. Why bring that up here? Do you think passing is a weakness of his?
No, as always we're using them to back up an opinion as it's far more objective and informative than "because I said so"
But you've just proven that stats are subjective not objective. A prime example is the bentaleb 1 in 10 stat which anybody who has seen him live will know he makes MANY pass backs per game so the fact this boosts up his ratio means absolutely nothing
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
We dont play possession football. We attempt to play a high pressing counter attack.
Thats why Capoue, Paulinho, Stambouli are gone. Why Dembele is no longer a central midfielder. Why Pochettino has no interest in playing Eriksen or Carroll in central midfield. Its why Pochettino had no interest in the likes of Cabaye.
If we were a possession team we'd stick 3 in the middle and pass it all day looking for openings.
Instead we have Mason and Bentaleb. The only two capable of consistently winning the ball and passing it on quickly at tempo.
Their pass possession is irrelevant. Poch wants them to get and move it on. Its why he plays Mason while thousands complain about him giving the ball away.
Bender is exactly in this mode. Except he is much better defensively than either of out current two. He will suit how Pochettino wants to play and you can see exactly why he is interested in him.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Oh come on. Thats not all people have to go on I hope. The guy has been playing consistent on our TVs for Dortmund in the Champion's League season after season.
Cochise
Steve Carr
I think we are a possession team. Last season our average possession stat was 57% (whoscored.com), which is quite high compared to a lot of other teams. It's evident in the way that the majority of teams in the league come to WHL and sit back soaking up pressure. We are by no means masters of it and if anything a lot of games out there illustrated that possession didn't = points. Liverpool only had 40% at WHL last season yet won 3-0, whilst the 5-3 win against Chelsea had us ending the game with a 46% stat.
A lot of our play seems to revolve around patient passages of play where our deeper players pass the ball around waiting for one of the attacking three to get free between the lines.
Back on topic. I'm not 100% sold on either of Kramer or Bender. Kramer to me could play the same as Bentaleb, he can be a deep playmaker and defensive grafter. Bender strikes me as the general who will put the fear of GHod into some opposition players and make us look more secure. One is better for a team going forward whilst the other for a team going back.
A lot of our play seems to revolve around patient passages of play where our deeper players pass the ball around waiting for one of the attacking three to get free between the lines.
Back on topic. I'm not 100% sold on either of Kramer or Bender. Kramer to me could play the same as Bentaleb, he can be a deep playmaker and defensive grafter. Bender strikes me as the general who will put the fear of GHod into some opposition players and make us look more secure. One is better for a team going forward whilst the other for a team going back.
I
indianspur
Guest
when he hasnt been injured, which seems to have been on quite a few occasions tbh
Speaking of functioning brains I'll spell it out.
A) if you show me where I showed a disfunctioning brain by saying or even implying bentalebs passing is a weakness that would be great.
Didn't think so
So I'll spell it out...
You said bentalebs passing failure is less to which I pointed out that he makes a lot of simple back passes which will boost his stats. I said no more no less.
To reply to your second point. No, he doesn't pass back when there is no other option. He is VERY OFTEN guilty of not seeing a forward pass to a FREE teammate and instead chooses to spin backwards and pass back.
Again if you watched live TV and go by stats then you would also identify this
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
I'm pretty sure he played the whole way through the Champion's League final season.
I wonder if it wasn't for the injuries would he be now out of reach.
The only reason he is available is that Klopp has left.
For what its worth I think someone will steal him from us before we get the chance to sign him.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
You are right about the possession. We do better away from home because thats suits the way Pochettino has us set up.
There were always questions about how the style he used at Southampton would work against team sitting back at WHL. And we continue to struggle against organised defensives at home. We are not set up to break them down. Usually Mason comes off 20 minutes to go Eriksen dropped back into midfield Kane drops deeper to get the ball and we attempt to have more control.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Kramer came across very well in Comolli's prozone presentation there a while back. They were looking at a some stats that only apps like prozone could measure like how well they passed under pressure and how many players were drawn to the player when in possession (opening up passing channels). Kramer came out very well on all the DM stats and Comolli and his mate were very impressed with him.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
I agree that Bender is better defensively, but he is worse offensively. Comparing on Schneiderlin, Matic, Bentaleb, Bender and Mason on Squaka, Mason has higher forward passes, more total passes, more successful passes, higher pass completion, more key passes, more assists and more chances created on average per game. I haven't seen much of Bender and I know that stats do not tell the whole story. Where Mason is the worst out of this lot is in successful take ons and interceptions. Incidentally, both him and Bentaleb have similar stats on defensive errors and errors leading to goals, which in my mind is what we need to work on. Reducing these errors, lapses in concentration or whatever is causing them is what needs to be done. I think both are able to improve in this regard.
Getting someone like Bender would increase options, but I am not sure that it will definitively lead to better results. My pressing concern is someone to offer Kane competition as I just think this is the one position where clearly there is not any real competition for that place.
Maltese Falcon
Niko Kranjcar
I guess this makes the past 6 pages rather superfluous....
Dortmund not planning on losing Tottenham target Bender, says Tuchel
2 Aug 2015 09:43:24
The 26-year-old Germany international is being heavily linked with a move to White Hart Lane but his boss at BVB has no desire to lose one of his leaders in the dressing room
Borussia Dortmund head coach Thomas Tuchel says Sven Bender is a key part of his plans for the new season - even though the midfielder is reportedly being targeted by Tottenham.
Bender still has another two years to run on his contract with BVB but speculation is rife that Spurs are ready to make a move for the Germany international.
However, Tuchel insists that the club have little interest in selling a player who is considered a vital member of the playing squad at Signal Iduna Park.
"Sven Bender is a leader," the new BVB boss told reporters. "He is a constant in the squad.
"It's a pleasure to work with him, because he is a total team player. So we are very happy with him and we are planning with him."
Tuchel was speaking after watching Dortmund record a 2-0 win over Real Betis, with Adrian Ramos and Oliver Kirch getting the goals in a comfortable friendly win in Wuppertal.
However, while the former Mainz boss acknowledged that many of the players on show are not yet fully fit, he was not pleased by the performance.
"It wasn't good enough from our side," Tuchel added. "The result is okay and we won. The players were able to gain more game time, especially those who didn't get enough practice.
"But the way we played was very slow. So there isn't much positive to say, we just know how not to do it."
Dortmund next host Wolfsberger in the second leg of their Europa League third qualifying round clash on Thursday, having triumphed 1-0 in Austria last week.
Dortmund not planning on losing Tottenham target Bender, says Tuchel
2 Aug 2015 09:43:24
The 26-year-old Germany international is being heavily linked with a move to White Hart Lane but his boss at BVB has no desire to lose one of his leaders in the dressing room
Borussia Dortmund head coach Thomas Tuchel says Sven Bender is a key part of his plans for the new season - even though the midfielder is reportedly being targeted by Tottenham.
Bender still has another two years to run on his contract with BVB but speculation is rife that Spurs are ready to make a move for the Germany international.
However, Tuchel insists that the club have little interest in selling a player who is considered a vital member of the playing squad at Signal Iduna Park.
"Sven Bender is a leader," the new BVB boss told reporters. "He is a constant in the squad.
"It's a pleasure to work with him, because he is a total team player. So we are very happy with him and we are planning with him."
Tuchel was speaking after watching Dortmund record a 2-0 win over Real Betis, with Adrian Ramos and Oliver Kirch getting the goals in a comfortable friendly win in Wuppertal.
However, while the former Mainz boss acknowledged that many of the players on show are not yet fully fit, he was not pleased by the performance.
"It wasn't good enough from our side," Tuchel added. "The result is okay and we won. The players were able to gain more game time, especially those who didn't get enough practice.
"But the way we played was very slow. So there isn't much positive to say, we just know how not to do it."
Dortmund next host Wolfsberger in the second leg of their Europa League third qualifying round clash on Thursday, having triumphed 1-0 in Austria last week.
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