Bender

[Nigeyman]

Would you rather we go into these games with a more defensive mindset? I thought that our results against the top teams were better last season than when we tried that.

yeah I think so, though I accept we played a supposed dm specialist alot early last season 'Capoue' and that was a disaster, but he was just el crappo.

I agree with Parklane that we are to open and easy to play against. I am not against Bentaleb & Mason playing as a partnership but I would prefer it to be part of a central midfield three, with that defensive specialist behind them...

without exaggeration playing them as a partnership in 4-2-3-1 will not bring us consistent results.

 

[billyiddo]

I thought we were debating mate not arguing, so do you think we should start the season with Mason and Betaleb as our CM or should we try and bring in a upgrade.

Much of a muchness round here

And of course I bloody think we should improve CM! seriously man I'm starting to wonder if you even read what other people have been posting - I want a CM next to Bentaleb to work in tandem with him, someone good on the ball and in attack but who has a better defensive awareness than what we saw from either Mason and Bentaleb last season - I don't expect us to setup differently I expect the new signing to perform better in that role.

 

[parklane1]

I hope that Billy does not mind me stepping in on his dance. I think that of course we should look to strengthen in central midfield but making the right signing is more important than any signing. I suspect that given the choice between a Sandro/Parker style CM and continuing with Bentaleb/Mason, he would pick the latter.

Could not agree more, but you know as well as I do that no matter who we upgrade with there will be some who will say he is not good enough.

As for the Sandro/Parker comparison I agree that is nor what we need.

 

[parklane1]

Much of a muchness round here

And of course I bloody think we should improve CM! seriously man I'm starting to wonder if you even read what other people have been posting - I want a CM next to Bentaleb to work in tandem with him, someone good on the ball and in attack but who has a better defensive awareness than what we saw from either Mason and Bentaleb last season - I don't expect us to setup differently I expect the new signing to perform better in that role.

I have read and understood what others have said, what I disagree with is those ( and they are some) who think we should persist with Mason and Bentaleb.

 

[milo]

Could not agree more, but you know as well as I do that no matter who we upgrade with there will be some who will say he is not good enough.

As for the Sandro/Parker comparison I agree that is nor what we need.

Cool. I sounds like we are all in agreement then

That's a first. Anyone mind if a lock the thread and move it to classics?

 

[billyiddo]

I have read and understood what others have said, what I disagree with is those ( and they are some) who think we should persist with Mason and Bentaleb.

Asides from GB, who let's face it is a special case, is there anyone you could pinpoint as thinking we should persist with Mason & Bentaleb? - cos I think you're debating against an opinion not widely held. The way I see it, almost everyone wants a stronger CM than what we currently have, I think you may be confusing the debate on which type of CM is needed with whether we need an improvement at all

 

[DublinSpur]

I hope that Billy does not mind me stepping in on his dance. I think that of course we should look to strengthen in central midfield but making the right signing is more important than any signing.

Nah mate. I think you'll find loads of people arguing in favour of just making any old signing even if it's the wrong one... ;-)

I suspect that given the choice between a Sandro/Parker style CM and continuing with Bentaleb/Mason, he would pick the latter.

I can't speak for anyone else; but my entire point is that neither of those two is what we need right now. As I've said here already; I'm completely on-board with the "two midfielders who can do a bit of everything philosophy" if that's what the manager wants. Which is why I don't want to go into the season with Mason / Bentaleb in the centre because neither of them fulfil that brief.

 

[scaramanga]

Its a bit of a leap saying he would be a weak link, what we need is someone in M/F who can be more defensive and read the defensive side of the game better then the two who are in there now. And as I and others have said before stats do not always tell the whole story. ( but I am not getting into that again )

One in 5 of his passes is unsuccessful. That's quite high for a deeper-lying cm. Bentaleb, for comparison is one in 10.

Again, it's not terrible but it would make a noticeable difference to our possession if he didn't improve.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

Nah mate. I think you'll find loads of people arguing in favour of just making any old signing even if it's the wrong one... ;-)


I can't speak for anyone else; but my entire point is that neither of those two is what we need right now. As I've said here already; I'm completely on-board with the "two midfielders who can do a bit of everything philosophy" if that's what the manager wants. Which is why I don't want to go into the season with Mason / Bentaleb in the centre because neither of them fulfil that brief.

I think what everyone agrees on is that people will only be happy if we get an upgrade on the current midfielders. However, quite what is an upgrade is up to debate, as many on here believe Mason to be the "weak link" and so a player around the £10m mark would be an improvement i.e. someone that is not as well rounded and perhaps more of a defensive specialist. There is another group that think that Mason is quite good and therefore any upgrade would be a much bigger signing of £15m or £20m+ i.e. more of an all rounder like Matic i.e. they do not believe that we need to sacrifice the attacking intent for a more defensive mindset.

I personally am in the latter. Mason and Bentaleb got us to fifth. It was, for both of them, their first full season in the Premier League. For Mason, it was his first meaningful taste of Premier action. I would expect to see both these players to be better this season. I am also expecting our defence to be better and our all round defensive shape. As with any young side, I am worried about a lack of experience and some lapses in concentration.

I would have taken Schneiderlin but he was too expensive. Bender I have reservations over simply because I don't know much about him except that he has not played many games the past couple of seasons. Can we have a player that manages 20 games a season in a league that is less physically exerting?

 

[Jordinho]

Right now Dortmund are playing Real Betis.

BVB: Weidenfeller - Stenzel, Ginter, Bender (c), Kirch - Castro, Leitner - Blaszczykowski, Kagawa, Kampl - Ramos

 

[Pirate55]

I don't think that is all Poch is looking for though. Being comfortable on the ball and being able to pick a quick pass seem to be high up his wishlist.

If Poch just wants more of the same, then we will have all the same frailties as last season. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

If Poch just wants more of the same, then we will have all the same frailties as last season. Makes no sense to me.

Perhaps but that is only true if you think the players themselves or collectively will not improve.

 

[billyiddo]

If Poch just wants more of the same, then we will have all the same frailties as last season. Makes no sense to me.

Well that depends on whether you think the players performed their roles as intended by the manager or performed to the required level or if you think the tactics are flawed and that is the reason we leaked chances through the middle - my guess is that the CMs, whilst doing well in some areas did not perform to the required level defensively and a better player in there with the same approach will see the required improvement defensively

 

[Papercut]

Struggling to take this thread seriously *embarrassed*

 

[PochettinoPochettinoPochettino]

Don't think this one will happen.

 

[Cochise]

Ok so here is his highlight reel.

The guy reads the game well, snaps into tackles and has two extendable legs. He's a big unit too but doesn't look too slow. He keeps his passing simple but if you watch from the 2:50 mark it's evident that he can pick out a decent pass when he wants.

For balance I'll throw in the Kramer video.

Kramer looks the less imposing of the two and Bender looks more likely to win any tackle he goes in for. With that said the above clip shows him to be an excellent footballer who looks to release the ball early and forward.

Having watched the videos, I then used the comparison tool used at the start to compare the two. The passing stats as expected reflected favourably on Kramer, with better key passes, pass completion % and successful passes stats. Bender on the other hand won more tackles, made more interceptions and won more aerial duels. Bender also lost more tackles which I guess would point to him competing in a more direct manner.

I would guess that were we to sign Kramer, the double pivot would be more balanced with both Bentaleb and Kramer sharing duties. Bender on the other hand would probably be more limited in the attacking sequences and allow Bentaleb more freedom, but would offer a lot more protection to the back line.

 

[Mumorn]

starts today for Dortmund.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

The guy reads the game well, snaps into tackles and has two extendable legs. He's a big unit too but doesn't look too slow. He keeps his passing simple but if you watch from the 2:50 mark it's evident that he can pick out a decent pass when he wants.

Reminds me of Matic...

Can see why he would get injuriesl does not flinch a tackle.

 

[milo]

Would anyone disagree that Kramer looks the better fit for us out of the two?

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Would anyone disagree that Kramer looks the better fit for us out of the two?

Sorry mate

Again YES; not that I would object if we snagged Kramer, mind you

But in my book, success is built on a solid rearguard and the stats and clips on both players suggests to me that Bender is more likely to provide that...