Ange’s system / formation

[Lilbaz]

That was the day I knew last year was a write off even though we actually won the game. Brighton absolutely dingdonged us and were robbed. Coming out of the ground that day, you could sense the crowd knew we got away with it thanks to Son, Kane and the ref and our season was likely done. 2 weeks later, Saudi Sportswashing Machine gave us what we knew was coming.



I don't think too many on here have been very critical of Ange. Unless he wins the league, and this goes for any manager, there will be discussion on what he might do better but the overall sentiment on here is pretty much unanimously positive. Some people, me included, have some concerns about Ange but I wouldn't swap him for anyone else and, even if I would, he has more than enough credit in the bank to make thinking of another manager sound utterly delusional.

The everton game was it for me. We didn't even seem to be trying.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

You’ve quoted me - was your post aimed at me? I don’t know why - personally I was just trying to start an interesting conversation about tactics, not make or ask for judgements on our success so far under Ange. Incidentally, I’m delighted with Ange and our progress under him. I’m just curious about his use of full-backs and how it differs slightly from the other top teams.

Yes it has been somewhat derailled.

 

[thfcsteff]

The current system suits certain players far more than others, but everyone is generally doing well within it. Defensively I have few issues as it is reward/risk football, where I have defensive complaints are in matters of zone vs man marking; the concession at West Ham was unforgivable IMO. Truthfully, uptop Richy as a 9 suits the system more, but Sonny is undeniable and frankly undroppable as a starter; even if having an average game, he is worth two markers a game. I think in these situations it is vital that Madders and Sarr/Bentancur take greater advantage of the moments they have, Madders in particular is still trying to find his timing and rhythm for me. I love love love Sarr, but Bentancur gives us a little extra quality and experienc on the ball, so another tough choice for Ange. My thoughts on the 6 are already out there (I think Bissouma needs either some serious competition or an upgrade). More than anything, I think our in-game inconsistencies are all about growing pains. Physically and mentally we have had a lot to absorb, not to mention the way the club is now run (which BTW is very positively)...the future feels bright, and tactically, I think as supporters we have to continue believing and accepting.

 

[Baleforce]

Even if/when Ange gets this working, I don't think I'll like it, its just too chaotic defensively, it will always give the opposition opportunity.

 

[Mulletperm]

I'd say it's apparent that 'Angeball' has been somewhat sussed, in terms of how to play against it.

The question is, will those tactics be more effective with different players who are more suited to it? What would those kind of players look like in terms of skill set?

I'd say it's clear Ange isn't going to change the way he wants his team, s to play, so it might be the case that players are required that will fit better.

 

[NYSpur]

Even if/when Ange gets this working, I don't think I'll like it, its just to chaotic defensively, it will always give the opposition opportunity.

The problem is that it not just any old opportunity but usually excellent ones. Compare the chances Saudi Sportswashing Machine had today with what we could fashion. Our problem is we have the high risk at the moment but no high reward. It is reminiscent of the Ossie way of playing in that once we stop scoring we are almost guaranteed a loss because we are so vulnerable. Multi goal defeats usually result in manager dismissal, whoever they are ….

 

[NYSpur]

I'd say it's apparent that 'Angeball' has been somewhat sussed, in terms of how to play against it.

The question is, will those tactics be more effective with different players who are more suited to it? What would those kind of players look like in terms of skill set?

I'd say it's clear Ange isn't going to change the way he wants his team, s to play, so it might be the case that players are required that will fit better.

I think there is a limit to what you can do with personnel. Yes, having better players will usually yield better results, but if you keep conceding it is much harder to win. It may be stating the obvious but Bill Nick was quoted in The Glory Game as saying that any manager worth anything wants to get it right defensively first because you never lose when you don’t concede. Ange has us set up effectively inviting a concession . The Fulham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine games inevitably raise questions about the sustainability of this approach, along with all the games we have had to dig out of a hole.

 

[glasgowspur]

I don't think we've been found out or that Ange's system has been sussed.
The players have stopped believing, they're not making the same runs, passes aren't being being attempted and we are taking the easy options all the time.
Early season Sarr, Bissouma, Udogie, Porro were brushing opponents aside physically and opening spaces. Now they fall down everytime they get in a tussle.
Since we have been back to close to full strength the bad results have not come from the opposition playing great, they've come from us being particularly bad and gifting them goals.
We've lost belief.

 

[jrh]

I don't think we've been found out or that Ange's system has been sussed.
The players have stopped believing, they're not making the same runs, passes aren't being being attempted and we are taking the easy options all the time.
Early season Sarr, Bissouma, Udogie, Porro were brushing opponents aside physically and opening spaces. Now they fall down everytime they get in a tussle.
Since we have been back to close to full strength the bad results have not come from the opposition playing great, they've come from us being particularly bad and gifting them goals.
We've lost belief.

This. All this.. It's on the players to grow a pair for me. Sure some tactical tweaks will happen, but the players need to sort it out first and foremost.

 

[tommysvr]

He come the doubters. This is the bit Ange loves. He specifically mentions this a lot:

“I’ve been fortunate in the past because I’ve had success but whenever I reflect on any job I’ve had, it’s not the success that I look back on, it’s the build that I look back on because I know it’s not always going to be smooth.

“There’s going to be plenty of doubters, which is when your belief and resolve gets doubted. Not just for me personally, but the whole club, the whole group and I love working through that, getting out the other side.

“That’s the biggest attraction for me in this position. Aside from being in a massive football club and the premier competition in the world… the opportunity to do something that people will see in many respects as insurmountable. I love that.”

 

[jrh]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1779155322197651741

 

[Mulletperm]

Not doubting Ange, am doubting the players ability to perform in his formation/tactics, which is why I asked if different players would perform better.

 

[tommysvr]

Not doubting Ange, am doubting the players ability to perform in his formation/tactics, which is why I asked if different players would perform better.

Yeah but your first sentence was "I'd say it's apparent that 'Angeball' has been somewhat sussed, in terms of how to play against it."

It hasn't been sussed. He's been here 5 minutes. We've seen a fraction of the team he's building.

 

[Mulletperm]

I would say what I said is correct. A savvy manager knows how to set up against us, particularly as Ange won't change how the team plays.
Howe showed that today, and others have.

 

[jrh]

I think what's been sussed is our current squads character.. Saudi Sportswashing Machine admitted they went man to man today, knowing they could stifle us and ask us questions that our players don't want to answer. That's what we need to fix. The players need to go back to being free and confident in the plan.

 

[tommysvr]

I would say what I said is correct. A savvy manager knows how to set up against us, particularly as Ange won't change how the team plays.
Howe showed that today, and others have.

We're 5th. 8 months into a completely different style, a total rebuild. What the fudge did you expect? I'd say that's the problem, not Ange being 'sussed'

 

[tommysvr]

I think what's been sussed is our current squads character.. Saudi Sportswashing Machine admitted they went man to man today, knowing they could stifle us and ask us questions that our players don't want to answer. That's what we need to fix. The players need to go back to being free and confident in the plan.

I don't think it's even that. The only thing this squad needs is time, and maybe 2 or 3 quality additions over the next 3/4 windows.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We're 5th. 8 months into a completely different style, a total rebuild. What the fudge did you expect? I'd say that's the problem, not Ange being 'sussed'

Yep
Fans expect instant fixes that just aren’t there
The worst thing that happened was the good start we had as it changed direction and expectations of fans

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Tactically we need to road how Tod walk with defences that just sit there
We have people calling it a low block but only west ham really did that
What teams are doing is just keeping their defence in position and nothing else
We then panic and have players drifting out to try to find space leaving gaping holes where they would be making the system even less executive and their defenders with free time and space

 

[jrh]

I don't think it's even that. The only thing this squad needs is time, and maybe 2 or 3 quality additions over the next 3/4 windows.

Fair, I'm just comparing the free flowing start of the season to the stuttering last few weeks and months. I know there's going to be bumps but just trying to understand exactly why the players seem less secure in the plan. Like someone said in the OMT, even our dawdling on taking free kicks after being fouled. At the start of the season there was no hesitation, it was clear. The plan was clear. Now they all just seem a little unsure.

I'm sure it'll come good with time, but I'm just trying to say I think the onus at the moment lies more with the players than Ange.