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Ange’s system / formation

E

elltrev

Andy Sinton
As we close in on Ange’s first full season, what are people’s thoughts on his system / formation?

Like most people, I love how attacking it is. But as time goes on, I find it a bit weird how it’s so focused on getting the full-backs into no. 10 areas. Wouldn’t we rather have the likes of Maddison in those areas? At the moment it feels like Maddison comes deep and Udogie fills that space, more often than not. I was hoping the system would be a bit more dynamic, with the opposition never knowing whether full-backs will be overlapping, dropping deep, or getting into no.10 spaces - rather than almost always doing the latter.

Looking at City by comparison, they seem to want to get a front five like we do, but they do it with the likes of De Bruyne being in the hole rather than Udogie, and their full-backs staying as defenders or central midfielders.
 
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I hate the way we defend, I don't think the attacking return is worth the defensive risk, we don't get enough people back behind the ball quickly enough on turn overs, we allow switches to overload us repeatedly, we don't handle set pieces smartly and we overly rely on VDV's pace to get us out of trouble when our high line is beaten.
 
Could not be happier. Seriously. We're a very good chance at 4th this early on. Ahead of where Liverpool, Arsenal, City etc were in their manager's first season. Ahead of where we were after Poch's first season.

It's also absolutely on par -- probably better actually -- with Ange's first seasons at other clubs. This is how it goes...and then it really clicks.

Can't wait to watch us next season.
 
I know what you mean.
When Redknapp (and others) had a system that required the full backs (Rose and Walker) to be the furthest forward players (crossing from the byline and slamming into the hoardings) and ALSO expected them to get back and defend and then get down the line and back and forth and back and forth it seemed like a bad system to me.
Surely there was some better way to spread our players out more equitably, to cover the pitch.


Then Ange came along and said that the full backs didn't need to be the furthest forward, he actually said that the wide forwards should be...... wait for it..... wide and forwards!!!! Genius! I thought that was great, let the full backs contribute, but don't expect them to be both furthest forwards and furthest backwards.

And yet I fully share your view that I don't particularly want our full backs to be playmakers. Seems they are often expected to play like Deki and Madders, which is a bit of a tough task IMO.

I like that they are free to burst forwards and cause chaos in the box by dragging defenders around, else the defenders get too comfy and can just look after the forwards.... but I don't really expect them to be "clever", I want them to be "chaos" just running and driving and scruffy and then the ball falls for a "real" forward to knock home.

A bit like a month ago when Udogie ran forwards and had a bit of a weak shot but it bounced straight back into his own path and he tapped it in easy peasy, that was caused by a chaos run. Not by him stopping and assessing and trying to curl it with sidespin blah blah.



((Note I fully acknowledge Udogie and Porro are extremely good footballers and are capable of good passes))
 
I would like to see us change to 2 cm staying deeper at times just to give us a bit more cover and possibly space up top. But no complaints on how the first season has gone.

With the ball:

Werner .... Son .... Johnson
Maddison
Udogie ...................... Porro
Bissouma Bentancur
VDV Romero
Vicario
​
 
Lemonade Money said:
Bit early to be criticizing, I'm sure it's not what Ange totally wants at the moment. Let's wait and see next season.
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indeed, its a work in progress and as the old saying goes " Rome was not built in a day". I know a lot of fans who were full of doom and gloom during last summer and yet we now find ourselves with a chance of qualifying fpr the CL.



Gazza Dazzla said:
Delighted with the first season so far
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Agree. Still work to do but we are progressing for sure. IMO
 
Love Ange and his philosophy. Really he's done the hardest part in integrating his style of play whilst getting results for us to practically having a top 5 place sewn up all in his first season - that is some achievement. We've had bigger name managers not achieve his stats playing far worse football.

It's seasons 2 and 3 where you really begin to see a coaches real stamp on the team, can only hope the upward curve continues. But as shown under Conte, when many on here expected us to challenge at the very top in season 2 following our CL qualification in his first season, it's never that simple.

Do I think we will achieve the promised land and win trophies under him? Who knows, not if we don't sure up the defence side of things. But either way we should and will enjoy the ride - let's be honest, we've had it far worse.....
 
It’s all been about match day and the games for me.

The strategy is right, I’m not going to drill down into the tactics but most days they are right.

It’s a job well done and I’m off to build a sandcastle. Fourth and fifth much of a muchness.
 
harr1984 said:
Love Ange and his philosophy. Really he's done the hardest part in integrating his style of play whilst getting results for us to practically having a top 5 place sewn up all in his first season - that is some achievement. We've had bigger name managers not achieve his stats playing far worse football.

It's seasons 2 and 3 where you really begin to see a coaches real stamp on the team, can only hope the upward curve continues. But as shown under Conte, when many on here expected us to challenge at the very top in season 2 following our CL qualification in his first season, it's never that simple.

Do I think we will achieve the promised land and win trophies under him? Who knows, not if we don't sure up the defence side of things. But either way we should and will enjoy the ride - let's be honest, we've had it far worse.....
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shore us up
 
I think he’s done a remarkable job in uniting the club and in changing how we play. The guy is very big picture and is always insightful when he speaks. I always said, top 6 this year would be success, top 4 dreamland stuff. That he has us in the mix for 4th is remarkable.

That’s the positive. On the flip side, I’ve said from pretty much the start that he won’t win us anything. That’s hardly Mystic Meg stuff given our recent history but I don’t believe you can defend the way Ange does and win at this level especially with the 5th or 6th best squad. The use of the full backs is the main problem for me. I also have a wee concern about his man management. I may be wrong, I don’t see him up close, but there are a couple of little signs.

I’ll be happy to be proven wrong about my doubts, I really will. And, based on what he’s done so far, Ange has a lot of credit in the bank to shut the doubters up.
 
Baleforce said:
I hate the way we defend, I don't think the attacking return is worth the defensive risk, we don't get enough people back behind the ball quickly enough on turn overs, we allow switches to overload us repeatedly, we don't handle set pieces smartly and we overly rely on VDV's pace to get us out of trouble when our high line is beaten.
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I think we defend the first phase of turn overs quite well, it's the second wave we're absolutely crap at! There's always at least a couple of players coming in the 2nd phase that we never pick up, and we've conceded loads of goals that way. Often we see we have 5 players back defending against 2 or 3, but leave the players coming in right behind totally unmarked.
That's an area we need to improve massively! Players ball watching, instead of looking for what might become dangerous.
 
I agree with you @elltrev - I'd love to hear him explain the tactical rationale behind making the full-backs into trequartistas when you could just stick another AM into the side and have him and Maddison play that role in the middle, while keeping the full backs tucked in behind them. With the rumors of us signing Eze, if it happens, I wonder if that is indeed how he'll set up - Son up top, Werner-Eze-Maddison-Johnson behind him, Udogie and Porto tucked in alongside Benta/Biss/another DM, like City.

Overall, I'd say he's performing decently. A strong start was then brought to a halt by the harsh reality of the Premier League, and now we're performing decently on the whole. I think as the next couple of seasons wear on we should improve provided he gets some of the other pieces he needs - think he's lacking pacy cover for VdV, a properly dominant DM and two wingers who focus on getting chalk on their boots and taking on/beating their men out wide.

On the whole, I never expected miracles this season - with Kane gone, the last bit of hope for this club wanting to win things left with it, and given work pressures, I tuned out to an extent. Especially given we seemed to have hired some cheap rando from Scotland. 8th-10th would not have surprised me.

But he's pleasantly surprised me with his genuine honesty, openness and commitment to play his way, as well as the way he's brought the staff and players together by just being himself, a likeable and straightforward bloke. I think he'll keep us punching in and around 4th/5th and give us good football, bravery in and out of possession, and honesty in press conferences. With our ownership, that's about all we can ask for, I think.
 
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