Ange in or out?

[ricky2tricky4city]

I can't believe this is still dragging on (either way)

As proven this morning.... perhaps there is quite a bit of a thought process to work through?

 

[Mikey10]

I can see the arguments on both sides (even if I continue to lean a particular way), but can’t help but feel allowing the current speculation to rumble on is only undermining his standing as manager. It needs a swift resolution one way or the other - also because other clubs are now getting on with business (looks like Delap’s off to Chelsea).

 

[billyiddo]

I can see the arguments on both sides (even if I continue to lean a particular way), but can’t help but feel allowing the current speculation to rumble on is only undermining his standing as manager. It needs a swift resolution one way or the other - also because other clubs are now getting on with business (looks like Delap’s off to Chelsea).

I don't see the rush to announce anything - if he comes back for pre season then I'd expect to see him start the season as manager. If we're looking at replacing him that will sort itself out when we agree terms with whoever the replacement is.

 

[Lost Mango]

I can see the arguments on both sides (even if I continue to lean a particular way), but can’t help but feel allowing the current speculation to rumble on is only undermining his standing as manager. It needs a swift resolution one way or the other - also because other clubs are now getting on with business (looks like Delap’s off to Chelsea).

I'm sure we would have sounded out Delap and doubt it is the 'managerial uncertainty' that has made him lean towards Chelsea

 

[Raziel]

I don't see the rush to announce anything - if he comes back for pre season then I'd expect to see him start the season as manager. If we're looking at replacing him that will sort itself out when we agree terms with whoever the replacement is.

Exactly, new CEO coming in, likely new DoF (or whatever Paratici's role will be), board changes, 15 players released so far.

I'd expect by opening of main transfer window (yes, we have this weird pre-window) on June 16th we would have an announcement.

Critical, we only announce Ange out, if we have replacement ready.

 

[Mikey10]

I don't see the rush to announce anything - if he comes back for pre season then I'd expect to see him start the season as manager. If we're looking at replacing him that will sort itself out when we agree terms with whoever the replacement is.

The continuing rumble of uncertainty only serves to increase the pressure on him if he does stay imo. It looks like (and is probably the case) that other options are being looked at. Doesn’t exactly give the impression to anyone he’s therefore first choice to remain, if remain he does.

I'm sure we would have sounded out Delap and doubt it is the 'managerial uncertainty' that has made him lean towards Chelsea

I’m sure you’re right. But hard to think we can move forward with real certainty until things are confirmed one way or the other.

Exactly, new CEO coming in, likely new DoF (or whatever Paratici's role will be), board changes, 15 players released so far.

I'd expect by opening of main transfer window (yes, we have this weird pre-window) on June 16th we would have an announcement.

Critical, we only announce Ange out, if we have replacement ready.

Agree with that. Still think it needs to be got on with soonest if that’s the plan. The direction of travel (Europa win notwithstanding) has been pretty clear for months…

 

[thfcsteff]

As we were talking about the league, let's continue with those stats.

2017/18, Kane got 30 goals
2022/23, Kane got 30 goals

The in-between years were 17, 18, 23 and 17

More stats...here's his injury record. There's a detailed list out there, I'll just list days missed.

17/18 - 38 days
18/19 - 96 days
19/20 - 96 days
20/21 - 21 days
23/24 - 35 days

(not sure where 21/22 or 22/23 are? presumably injury free...odd to have successive years of 96 days of injuries too, but there we go)

The mid-set of numbers might account for why he did not hit 30 league goals in those seasons. He scored 24 goals all competitions in 18/19 despite those 96 days out for injuries, he scored 24 goals all comps despite those 96 days out.

I'm sorry but there would be no guarantee of 25-30 goals a season especially in a tough PL when you're in your thirties. The PL is not the Bundesliga.

How-many-season-wonder was he?...

For me, it was in the little moments with Kane. The pulling out of headers. The little look down at the floor knowing that a team mate needed him to show for the ball. The dropping deep to spray a pass and then just standing there fixed to the spot. I genuinely don't see that from any of our players nowadays. The question mark in my mind was whether Ange would have been able to snap Kane out of some these little bad habits that were becoming prevalent in his game. To be fair, the BM fans made similar observations when he first moved there. I remember a little series of games in 22/23 where Kane indirectly cost us 3 goals in 4 games as he didn't do what number 9s do in those situations. Strikers don't get goals chalked off for when they cost you goals though. Kane's cumulation in that department over a season was actually quite high.

Yes, you've said here several times that you have had bones to pick with him. I stand by my assertion that what you viewed as 'slacking' was in fact the only way he could continue with a top career (modifying his game) and avoid all the injuries.

I guess we'll never know whether Ange or Harry would have adapted their approach if they worked together. I'm pretty certain something would have had to give as we've all seen what Ange needs from his number 9s. Interestingly, that hasn't deviated so much as Ange has adapted some of the other parts of his system.

I'd love a 24/25 year old Kane in this setup to be fair. Not the one that left. Not the thirty-something Harry was about to become either.

Regardless of that, name me a manager who would be happy coming into a new club whose generational talent striker/goal fountain was sold on the eve of their first season in charge with no ready made replacement.
I don't think they exist.

 

[Raziel]

Agree with that. Still think it needs to be got on with soonest if that’s the plan. The direction of travel (Europa win notwithstanding) has been pretty clear for months…

My gut feel has been, he was always gone at end of season, EL win obviously likely prompted at least a conversation, but the lack of backing in Chairman's statement and all comms from club post win, indicates he's still gone.

When I say there is no rush, no rush to announce anything, but work has to be ongoing

- Must have replacement (if that's choice)
- Lots of players to make decisions on -> Romero, Richi, Bissouma, Davies, Son, Tel plus all the loan crew
- Lots of structure changes -> medical team, coaching staff, board

Bit odd, but feels like a 2nd phase of restructuring post Stadium build.

 

[Muttley]

More stats...here's his injury record. There's a detailed list out there, I'll just list days missed.

17/18 - 38 days
18/19 - 96 days
19/20 - 96 days
20/21 - 21 days
23/24 - 35 days

(not sure where 21/22 or 22/23 are? presumably injury free...odd to have successive years of 96 days of injuries too, but there we go)

The mid-set of numbers might account for why he did not hit 30 league goals in those seasons. He scored 24 goals all competitions in 18/19 despite those 96 days out for injuries, he scored 24 goals all comps despite those 96 days out.

"But for the injuries" just strengthens my point. You can't discard the 1's and 5's out of your darts average and only measure your average on the 20's and treble 20's only. Such a flawed argument statistically to call an argument without factoring in the injuries that actually happened. It's almost like Ange repeatedly saying we play 3 games a week. That one made me chuckle as well.

I actually admire Kane for not staying in the PL. He knew he was better looking after his body in the Bundesliga environment. He wasn't like Shearer who wanted to step down at 29/30 from the England setup and focus on club football. The German league is admittedly a little weaker, but they operate with only 18 teams and have a winter break. I think they only have one domestic cup competition as well. Good on him.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I don't see the rush to announce anything - if he comes back for pre season then I'd expect to see him start the season as manager. If we're looking at replacing him that will sort itself out when we agree terms with whoever the replacement is.

Exactly, I’ve no idea why anyone’s so desperate for an announcement.

The club is literally damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t with the current split supporters base on Ange. It’s going to upset one group or the other.

The Ange in’s are slagging the club, Levy, Cullen, Munn, off for not releasing a statement or chairman notes saying he’s staying (why would they need to he’s contracted for another couple of years, the club never comments on rumours).
Whilst the Ange out’s can’t wait for the sacking announcement.

Levy’s inbetween a rock and a hard place and will be slagged off either way.

 

[Raziel]

"But for the injuries" just strengthens my point. You can't discard the 1's and 5's out of your darts average and only measure your average on the 20's and treble 20's only. Such a flawed argument statistically to call an argument without factoring in the injuries that actually happened. It's almost like Ange repeatedly saying we play 3 games a week. That one made me chuckle as well.

I actually admire Kane for not staying in the PL. He knew he was better looking after his body in the Bundesliga environment. He wasn't like Shearer who wanted to step down at 29/30 from the England setup and focus on club football. The German league is admittedly a little weaker, but they operate with only 18 teams and have a winter break. I think they only have one domestic cup competition as well. Good on him.

Kane has scored 58 goals in 64 matches in German League for a Bayern team that isn't exactly strolling it, it's a rate that is elite compared to anyone. He would score 30 goals a season in any top side, issue is, we are not a top side at the moment, if we did still have him, we would need to build the side around getting him the ball, and others would have to do the work (you can't expect the Kane/Son era where combined they carried the side).

Back to thread topic, probably will be another week before anything announced.

 

[Muttley]

Exactly, I’ve no idea why anyone’s so desperate for an announcement.

The club is literally damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t with the current split supporters base on Ange. It’s going to upset one group or the other.

The Ange in’s are slagging the club, Levy, Cullen, Munn, off for not releasing a statement or chairman notes saying he’s staying (why would they need to he’s contracted for another couple of years, the club never comments on rumours).
Whilst the Ange out’s can’t wait for the sacking announcement.

Levy’s inbetween a rock and a hard place and will be slagged off either way.

I'm going on record right now as saying that I will back the club either way. I've put myself in their shoes and it's a tough call I wouldn't want to make myself. I will respect them for treating the EL win as business as usual and aspiring higher. After all, we were season long favourites. I will also respect them if they allow Ange more time to get his current setup working knowing they have had the tough conversations with him in the background.

Either way, I am already getting excited about next season.

 

[Muttley]

What I'd also say is that Frank is evens and Ange is 6:4 with the bookies. That tells you they haven't got a Scooby what is going on.

 

[Raziel]

What I'd also say is that Frank is evens and Ange is 6:4 with the bookies. That tells you they haven't got a Scooby what is going on.

Some utterly random names in the list

 

[DubaiSpur]

Some utterly random names in the list

View attachment 19830

>Carlos Corberan
>Michel
>Michel Sanchez

I am 90% sure these are just randomly generated Spanish names, with one bloke added twice (once with his last name) for emphasis.

 

[parklane1]

I'm going on record right now as saying that I will back the club either way. I've put myself in their shoes and it's a tough call I wouldn't want to make myself. I will respect them for treating the EL win as business as usual and aspiring higher. After all, we were season long favourites. I will also respect them if they allow Ange more time to get his current setup working knowing they have had the tough conversations with him in the background.

Either way, I am already getting excited about next season.

Same here, i am not getting into debates, arguments about Ange being or not being here. I will look forward to the new season [ as i have done for many years] with anticipation and expectation whoever is our manager.

 

[Robspur12]

I'm going on record right now as saying that I will back the club either way. I've put myself in their shoes and it's a tough call I wouldn't want to make myself. I will respect them for treating the EL win as business as usual and aspiring higher. After all, we were season long favourites. I will also respect them if they allow Ange more time to get his current setup working knowing they have had the tough conversations with him in the background.

Either way, I am already getting excited about next season.

Great post

 

[metalgear]

I can't believe this is still dragging on (either way)

we only see/hear so much

legal stuff, getting others involved and their legal stuff etc. lots to be lined up for a coach/manager before and after putting pen to paper. and also even if everything is done and in motion, timing of the press release has got to ideally suit all sides.

 

[veryoldspur]

If he has genuinely learnt from this season and is willing and able to add subtle adjustments to his general philosophy along with being far more proactive in his tactical responses I can see the sense in him getting another season.

If however he thinks this season has proven the extent of what his system entails and that he just needs a little more luck with injuries and for the players to embrace it even further then he should absolutely be fired.

I'd be surprised if he implements the obvious adjustments simply because they've been obvious for a long time and he never moved in that direction. Instead he stuck his head in the ground and just kept trying the same thing.

He's too stubborn to do what's necessary

 

[thfcsteff]

"But for the injuries" just strengthens my point. You can't discard the 1's and 5's out of your darts average and only measure your average on the 20's and treble 20's only. Such a flawed argument statistically to call an argument without factoring in the injuries that actually happened. It's almost like Ange repeatedly saying we play 3 games a week. That one made me chuckle as well.

Sorry, you'll have to explain what you mean. You claimed that saying we lost 30 goals a season on average when Kane left was not accurate and provided information via the seasons he did not. I pointed out that in those seasons, he was injured, which obviously diminished the amount of opportunities he had to score those goals in those seasons. You continue to claim that Kane essentially 'slacked off/played solo/didn't give it his all' in his latter seasons with us, I responded by saying he was modifying his style of play to ensure he never had as many long injury spells again/protect his body. MY point is simple. I think you're wrong to write him off as someone who slacked off with us in his latter years, I saw him as modifying his game to avoid constant re-injury. Hopefully at least my point is clear now?

I actually admire Kane for not staying in the PL. He knew he was better looking after his body in the Bundesliga environment. He wasn't like Shearer who wanted to step down at 29/30 from the England setup and focus on club football. The German league is admittedly a little weaker, but they operate with only 18 teams and have a winter break. I think they only have one domestic cup competition as well. Good on him.

Disagree again!!!! Had we let it happen, he'd still be at Emirates Marketing Project right now. Bayern were the club Levy would sell him to.