Ange in or out?

[Silly McSilly Face]

It's sad to hear, and obviously no one can tell you how you should feel. All I can hope is, come Wednesday night you will feel some form of compensation for what has been fair to say an underwhelming season as a whole....

"Underwhelming" is the seasons where we've finished 8th or 9th. We are 17th. I'm unsure why some of you are so sanguine about that fact. If we win our last 2 games the highest points total we can achieve is 42. We are one of only 4 teams, including 3 of the sh**est, most hapless pile of pony teams ever to grace the Premier league, that have lost 20 or more games. It's been a disgrace. It's been a disgrace all season. As to "throwing the league", that team that he put out v Palace was more than capable of putting in a showing that didn't involve just letting Palace take pot shots at our goal all match. Those players had no motivation to play themselves into contention for the final, they had no discernable shape or tactics, they looked like they'd never played together. And that has been pretty much the norm from this team over the majority of this season AND the majority of last season.

 

[Finney Is Back]

And what would be your perspective if he wins, he keeps his job and 10 games into next season we have lost 6 games?

Will you be slagging off Levy or are you going to support the decision?

Because I'll tell you what everyone else will be doing, including fans/media/pundits and hint, it's not going to be "it was a smart call to keep him"

If we are on less than 10 points 10 games into next season and Levy sacked him to bring in a really good manager then I'd be fine with that.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I keep seeing this argument about prioritizing the cup.

My question would be when do people think this was from? Where were in the league and what was our form at the time for it to be put forward that we stopped trying in the league for this cup run.

Cause I can't pinpoint a time our league form worsened because of the chance of winning Europe. We've been brick in the league for an age.

I think it was from the point that safety was all but guaranteed (after we'd beaten Brentford and Man Utd).

 

[billyiddo]

Everyone will remember the league form. We're not goldfish.

Maybe those of us who lived through it - but as a 40 year old, anything we've won from 91 back i have no idea what our league form was at the time (other than when we won the titles obvs) and i view those teams and cup wins as iconic parts of our history.

I'd view this team and yes the manager too in a similar fashion even knowing the league form - trophies will do that. Still doesn't change the argument over how we move forwards from this summer though

 

[Finney Is Back]

I know what you mean. It seems just like another excuse for our poor league performances.

I think maybe the last 4 or 5 league games have been played with the EL games in mind - and rightly so. Before that? I don't think so.

Before that we were decimated by injuries, playing lots of games and the few players left available were running on fumes.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Mate, we’ve lost 20 league games already. We have 38 points from 36 games. We have avoided a relegation dogfight only by virtue of three of the worst teams in PL history finishing below us.

We have been appalling to watch. We have no structure, no patterns of play, we have been rolled over by anyone half decent, including Ipswich at home. There is a sense of inertia on the pitch which seems to be permeating every aspect of the club.

If we win the EL it will be massively important for the club. We will have salvaged European football despite being cannon fodder for most for the entire season. But in no universe will this be our ‘best season in 25-30 years.’ It will remain our worst in living memory, a fudging nightmare to live through, with the pain alleviated to some extent by a trophy win.

(I am trying only to post positive things in the run-up to the final, but I just couldn’t let this one pass. Sorry! )

You clearly don't value winning trophies as much as I do. That's fine, you're as entitled to your opinion as anyone is.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

His legacy will be twofold, but in the end -years down the line- nobody will remember the awful league form IF he wins the thing. It will be a fact even you cannot deny him.

I won't deny it if he wins. But I won't forget the league form and I imagine plenty others will remember it.

I think we played better teams when we won the league cup under Ramos and we all remember the 2 points in 8 games the next season.

Think Europa league will be remembered in a few years as a nothing competition.

That spurs and man u have got to the final when they are awful says everything about the competition, its actually a lower level then the league cup.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Palace pretty much played their first team. We played only 3 players likely to start next Weds (though one of them now injured).

There is equally nothing to suggest that we're not on a two season spin cycle. Season 1, Ange didn't have too bad an injury problem and we finished 5th. This season we had incredibly bad injury problems but prioritised the Europa and are now in the final.

If we don't win the final then Ange will rightly be sacked. 17th and no trophy is not acceptable. If we managed to win next weds then his achievement is massive and our first European trophy for 41 years and only the second trophy of the ENIC era means he deserves to keep his job.

I honestly think you need your head examined if you think 1 game absolves all the evidence of "unacceptability" over the course of 40 odd games.

Giving this guy another season would be absolute negligence by the club. It's irrelevant what happens in the final.

20 losses in the PL coming off the back of an utter sh**show of a second half to his first season and "hey have another go mate" because you've beaten *checks notes*:

FC Qaraboll*cks
AZ
Hoffenheim
Frankfurt
Bolo whatever
And literally the sh**est Man Utd team of my entire existence on this planet .....who FYI are above us in the league by just one place so are fundamentally equally as catastrophically sh*t as we are this season.....

 

[Finney Is Back]

Who said i wanted to finish 9th? 9th is a poor season based on our budget, squad investment, wage bill, club profile and average league finish over the last 10-15 years.

17th is criminally bad. And that's the thing with Ange, if he'd finished 9th and won the EL, he'd probably keep his job. His league form has likely made any cup win irrelevant to how credentials of being the man to take the club forward in the eyes of the people that matter at the club and increasing sections of the fan base.

I'd rather have a win every game mentality, as that is the only way for those crying your eyes out moments to become more than a once in 20 years oddity.

People saying that finishing 17th and winning the Europa = success is probably why this club hasn't been successful. Because when you lose over 20 games and win a trophy, the trophy win is a chance fluke and you're not set up for sustained success. And once you've dried your eyes and the new season starts, that night in bilbao will quickly fade and the dark clouds of just how pony we have been allowed to become will close in rapidly

I too would love Spurs to be winning every game and have that mentality but we are not that club and haven't been that club for a long while. Equally I would love winning trophies to be a more than once in 20 years oddity but, again, winning trophies for us is an oddity, especially under these owners. We've won just a paltry league cup in the last 25 years. No european trophy for 41 years. Many of our fans have no memory of us winning a european trophy. Winning it this year would absolutely be a success. I find it incredulous that anyone could suggest it woudn't be a success.

All of this - 'we want to win lots of trophies' talk.... that has to start with winning one and we've been incapable of doing that. You talk about not being set up for sustained success. I agree. Tottenham Hotspur have not really ever been set up for sustained success and certainly not under these owners. I suspect a Europa League trophy is as good as it will ever get under ENIC so, if we win (and I know it is a big IF) then I think it would absolutely be a big success and Ange should get a lot of credit for doing something many other managers have been unable to do.

 

[billyiddo]

I too would love Spurs to be winning every game and have that mentality but we are not that club and haven't been that club for a long while. Equally I would love winning trophies to be a more than once in 20 years oddity but, again, winning trophies for us is an oddity, especially under these owners. We've won just a paltry league cup in the last 25 years. No european trophy for 41 years. Many of our fans have no memory of us winning a european trophy. Winning it this year would absolutely be a success. I find it incredulous that anyone could suggest it woudn't be a success.

All of this - 'we want to win lots of trophies' talk.... that has to start with winning one and we've been incapable of doing that. You talk about not being set up for sustained success. I agree. Tottenham Hotspur have not really ever been set up for sustained success and certainly not under these owners. I suspect a Europa League trophy is as good as it will ever get under ENIC so, if we win (and I know it is a big IF) then I think it would absolutely be a big success and Ange should get a lot of credit for doing something many other managers have been unable to do.

None of that means that we should move forwards in to next season with the manager - no matter how true what you say is. Going in to next season shouldn't be about what has been achieved previously, it's should be about what is best for how the club can progress on the pitch.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

I too would love Spurs to be winning every game and have that mentality but we are not that club and haven't been that club for a long while. Equally I would love winning trophies to be a more than once in 20 years oddity but, again, winning trophies for us is an oddity, especially under these owners. We've won just a paltry league cup in the last 25 years. No european trophy for 41 years. Many of our fans have no memory of us winning a european trophy. Winning it this year would absolutely be a success. I find it incredulous that anyone could suggest it woudn't be a success.

All of this - 'we want to win lots of trophies' talk.... that has to start with winning one and we've been incapable of doing that. You talk about not being set up for sustained success. I agree. Tottenham Hotspur have not really ever been set up for sustained success and certainly not under these owners. I suspect a Europa League trophy is as good as it will ever get under ENIC so, if we win (and I know it is a big IF) then I think it would absolutely be a big success and Ange should get a lot of credit for doing something many other managers have been unable to do.

No club actually wins every game. It's about going out to win every game and finding defeat unacceptable. I think Ange finds defeat acceptable as long as the players play his way. Because it's "a process". He's even said that. You guys are talking about "the league form is fine because he's clearly thrown the league". Utter boll*cks. Did he throw the league last season after the first quarter of it then? Even if he did (he's just out of his depth at this level), it's not acceptable.

As to "we haven't been that club for a while", what are you taking about? We've actually won more games in most seasons over the last 15 years than we have lost this season....I honestly think you lot have taken something...."17th, it's where we've been as a club for a while mate...."

 

[Finney Is Back]

I honestly think you need your head examined if you think 1 game absolves all the evidence of "unacceptability" over the course of 40 odd games.

Giving this guy another season would be absolute negligence by the club. It's irrelevant what happens in the final.

20 losses in the PL coming off the back of an utter sh**show of a second half to his first season and "hey have another go mate" because you've beaten *checks notes*:

FC Qaraboll*cks
AZ
Hoffenheim
Frankfurt
Bolo whatever
And literally the sh**est Man Utd team of my entire existence on this planet .....who FYI are above us in the league by just one place so are fundamentally equally as catastrophically sh*t as we are this season.....

I think you need your head examined if you don't think that winning a european trophy is a great achievement.

Giving this guy another season (if we win the Europa) would be giving a manager a third season who delivered Europa league football in his first season and champions league football with a Europa League trophy in his second.

I can't help but think that there are people on here who are actually hoping that we lose next Wednesday.

 

[Finney Is Back]

None of that means that we should move forwards in to next season with the manager - no matter how true what you say is. Going in to next season shouldn't be about what has been achieved previously, it's should be about what is best for how the club can progress on the pitch.

Why shouldn't we go into next season with a manager who has done something so few other managers have at Spurs and actually won a trophy?

 

[Lilbaz]

Maybe those of us who lived through it - but as a 40 year old, anything we've won from 91 back i have no idea what our league form was at the time (other than when we won the titles obvs) and i view those teams and cup wins as iconic parts of our history.

I'd view this team and yes the manager too in a similar fashion even knowing the league form - trophies will do that. Still doesn't change the argument over how we move forwards from this summer though

Remembering something that happened before you were born is difficult. I'll give you that.

 

[carl]

I too would love Spurs to be winning every game and have that mentality but we are not that club and haven't been that club for a long while. Equally I would love winning trophies to be a more than once in 20 years oddity but, again, winning trophies for us is an oddity, especially under these owners. We've won just a paltry league cup in the last 25 years. No european trophy for 41 years. Many of our fans have no memory of us winning a european trophy. Winning it this year would absolutely be a success. I find it incredulous that anyone could suggest it woudn't be a success.

All of this - 'we want to win lots of trophies' talk.... that has to start with winning one and we've been incapable of doing that. You talk about not being set up for sustained success. I agree. Tottenham Hotspur have not really ever been set up for sustained success and certainly not under these owners. I suspect a Europa League trophy is as good as it will ever get under ENIC so, if we win (and I know it is a big IF) then I think it would absolutely be a big success and Ange should get a lot of credit for doing something many other managers have been unable to do.

Pick any out of

Ramos
Redknapp
Jol
AVB
Poch
Mourinho
Conte

And tell me you think none of them would've been capable of winning this tournament as it is now.

Winning the Europa Cup now is easier than winning the league cup / fa cup

 

[Finney Is Back]

No club actually wins every game. It's about going out to win every game and finding defeat unacceptable. I think Ange finds defeat acceptable as long as the players play his way. Because it's "a process". He's even said that. You guys are talking about "the league form is fine because he's clearly thrown the league". Utter boll*cks. Did he throw the league last season after the first quarter of it then? Even if he did (he's just out of his depth at this level), it's not acceptable.

As to "we haven't been that club for a while", what are you taking about? We've actually won more games in most seasons over the last 15 years than we have lost this season....I honestly think you lot have taken something...."17th, it's where we've been as a club for a while mate...."

No we didn't throw the league last season. We finished 5th. A very good finish for what Ange inherited.

This season we had tons of injuries and then when the injured players came back, we prioritised winning the Europa over a midtable finish. If that pays off and we win the competition then that will be great for the club. We will have done something very rare indeed under these owners and won a trophy.

 

[thfcsteff]

Everyone will remember the league form. We're not goldfish.

We will.
The world won't.

 

[thfcsteff]

I won't deny it if he wins. But I won't forget the league form and I imagine plenty others will remember it.

I think we played better teams when we won the league cup under Ramos and we all remember the 2 points in 8 games the next season.

Think Europa league will be remembered in a few years as a nothing competition.

That spurs and man u have got to the final when they are awful says everything about the competition, its actually a lower level then the league cup.

The Europa/Uefa Cup has always been a very special tournament for this club.
I'd also wager that the goons wouldn't mind having one under their belts.

 

[billyiddo]

Why shouldn't we go into next season with a manager who has done something so few other managers have at Spurs and actually won a trophy?

Because the form over the last 18 months says he's not going to progress us further.

 

[Lilbaz]

We will.
The world won't.

If i started caring about what the world thinks, i'd have to live my life differently.