American politics

[braineclipse]

I regularly abuse the republicans but perhaps because I think their scum i don't register their stupid remarks. When a democrat does it is concerning. Though he is obviously suffering with dementia.

If a young Democrat said that about gays and aids, it would be pretty much hate speech. I excuse Biden because of his very clear medical issues. But it is now down to the rest of the Democratic party to protect America and the rest of the world.

I don't think it would be hate speech. That would depend on the context, the tone, how it's received. It's possible to evaluate someone's underlying meaning to a certain extent, we don't have to rely only on the words being spoken.

If it was as clear as it was in this case I wouldn't think of it as hate speech. Though it would certainly be possible to say the same words in a hateful way.

I still struggle to understand how it's not possible to see that perspective.

 

[braineclipse]

He knows what he is doing, he knows exactly which audience he is pitching to, he knows what their reactions are and just as importantly is that he knows exactly the reaction he will get from the opposition.
Elections are now about him, he has cast himself in role of the "average Conservative American", the Democrats have allowed him, maybe even enabled him to do that.
As a modern day politician he is untouchable, as any kind of administratior, government or person he is a useless sccum bag.

Republicans have allowed and enabled him in that to a much greater extent than Democrats.

He's untouchable because Republicans won't touch him.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I don't think it would be hate speech. That would depend on the context, the tone, how it's received. It's possible to evaluate someone's underlying meaning to a certain extent, we don't have to rely only on the words being spoken.

If it was as clear as it was in this case I wouldn't think of it as hate speech. Though it would certainly be possible to say the same words in a hateful way.

I still struggle to understand how it's not possible to see that perspective.

Because of the last two decades of society and public conversations are that if anyone says anything slightly off they get sacked/cancelled. Example the Harry Potter author.

Happens all the time, even on here if someone says slightly the wrong thing. Something @markysimmo does sometimes. I like him and understand where he is coming from a lot of the time. But instead of applying context to his words from a societal or upbringing prospective the is often just a full on pile on, on him. It happens all the time with public figures and politicians.

More often lead by people with certain political views. If Trump had said what Biden had said about guys and aids the would be uproar by people that hate Trump.

I won't call Biden anti gay because I just don't think he knows what he is saying anymore. But as someone with gay friends, I found his comments offensive and inflammatory towards a community that has suffered a lot of prejudice.

 

[glasgowspur]

Republicans have allowed and enabled him in that to a much greater extent than Democrats.

He's untouchable because Republicans won't touch him.

Definitely, but by allowing him to make it about the personality the Democrats have played into his hands.

 

[Rorschach]

The SC's decision to hear arguments on immunity is bizarre on its face but they will ultimately rule against making the president the king irrespective. They'll be voting themselves out of a job if they rule with Trump. The case will not likely be heard before votes are cast now which is their intent. Pure corruption from the highest court in the land and not even subtle.
Garland has made a few big mistakes in his attempts to seem non-partisan and delaying appointing a special counsel for this case until he was more or less forced to by congress may prove to be the worst.

 

[braineclipse]

Because of the last two decades of society and public conversations are that if anyone says anything slightly off they get sacked/cancelled. Example the Harry Potter author.

Happens all the time, even on here if someone says slightly the wrong thing. Something @markysimmo does sometimes. I like him and understand where he is coming from a lot of the time. But instead of applying context to his words from a societal or upbringing prospective the is often just a full on pile on, on him. It happens all the time with public figures and politicians.

More often lead by people with certain political views. If Trump had said what Biden had said about guys and aids the would be uproar by people that hate Trump.

I won't call Biden anti gay because I just don't think he knows what he is saying anymore. But as someone with gay friends, I found his comments offensive and inflammatory towards a community that has suffered a lot of prejudice.

I get the impression you're not a fan of the "pile on, cancellation" type responses in general? Yet when Biden says something that can be heard in a really bad way, but easily can be seen as a big load of nothing you want to participate and defend that viewpoint?

The tweet that started all this was essentially what you're describing. People with certain political views piling on Biden for imo nothing more than a clumsy sentence. That you have no issues supporting, calling people on the left biased for not doing the same.

What would be an example of Trump getting an uproar against him for something he said that could easily be seen as nothing?

Had Biden said 10% of the worst stuff Trump has said the left would have eaten him alive (figuratively, not literally, people on the left usually don't eat people alive).

And it's not because the right don't do cancellations. There are people on the right who boycotted Budweiser for cooperating with a trans person. Who have tried to (and I believe succeeded) at "cancelling" critical race theory texts and teaching, LGBT+ books, draq queens reading stories for children etc etc ad nauseum. Yet Trump they will support despite everything he has said, or because of it.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

My point is your engaging in whataboutism.

What Biden said was wrong, just plain wrong. I will say if he does not have dementia it is offensive. But I think he does. Calling it clumsy is not right.

I have never defended trump and never will. But for true impartiality I like to criticise words or actions. Not defend someone because they 'represent' my side which is what you appear to be doing.

Honestly think it is because of views like your in this thread that the is such a divide in politics. Because people become so entrenched in their 'camp'

I shall finish this discussion in saying unlike Biden I don't think money spent on the gay community and combating Aids is a bad thing. *


* Trumps on views on the gay community are disgusting and well recored even in this thread.

 

[DubSpur]

My point is your engaging in whataboutism.

What Biden said was wrong, just plain wrong. I will say if he does not have dementia it is offensive. But I think he does. Calling it clumsy is not right.

I have never defended trump and never will. But for true impartiality I like to criticise words or actions. Not defend someone because they 'represent' my side which is what you appear to be doing.

Honestly think it is because of views like your in this thread that the is such a divide in politics. Because people become so entrenched in their 'camp'

I shall finish this discussion in saying unlike Biden I don't think money spent on the gay community and combating Aids is a bad thing. *


* Trumps on views on the gay community are disgusting and well recored even in this thread.

Bidens actions seem to suggest that he doesn't think it's a bad thing to spend money on combating aids or fighting for gay rights: Biden on Aids
But you keep on going with being offended by what he said when the target of the comment is not offended by it and took it the way it was meant. People looking to be offended by anything and everything is a big issue with the world now. Thought you were above that.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Bidens actions seem to suggest that he doesn't think it's a bad thing to spend money on combating aids or fighting for gay rights: Biden on Aids
But you keep on going with being offended by what he said when the target of the comment is not offended by it and took it the way it was meant. People looking to be offended by anything and everything is a big issue with the world now. Thought you were above that.

I'm allowed to think that saying money spent on aids research was a waste. Is offensive.

Because it is offensive and all diseases including the one I have should have money spent on them trying to cure them.

My issue is with people trying to defend it. Biased behaviour and unfairness does not sit well with me, people would rightly be upset had Trump said that.

Now if you asked me my take on it then I would say it was a disgusting comment from a president(who is not now mentally capable). But if you wanted to do a league table and its clear you and others want to, then it is one point for Biden and I don't know about 400 for Trump in the stupid offensive remarks stakes.

But I understand perfectly now, we don't comment on stupid stuff people do if we like them.

Also for the record I called out Son when he injured that Bournemouth player a couple of years ago. Good player but he went to injure the guy that day. I don't always achieve it but I try to be impartial. Yours and others lack of impartiality has made it look like I'm not anti Trump when I clearly am.

In football we say play the ball not the man. Some of you are dodgy refs ignoring Biden committing a foul.

 

[Lost Mango]

I'm allowed to think that saying money spent on aids research was a waste. Is offensive.

Because it is offensive and all diseases including the one I have should have money spent on them trying to cure them.

My issue is with people trying to defend it. Biased behaviour and unfairness does not sit well with me, people would rightly be upset had Trump said that.

Now if you asked me my take on it then I would say it was a disgusting comment from a president(who is not now mentally capable). But if you wanted to do a league table and its clear you and others want to, then it is one point for Biden and I don't know about 400 for Trump in the stupid offensive remarks stakes.

But I understand perfectly now, we don't comment on stupid stuff people do if we like them.

Also for the record I called out Son when he injured that Bournemouth player a couple of years ago. Good player but he went to injure the guy that day. I don't always achieve it but I try to be impartial. Yours and others lack of impartiality has made it look like I'm not anti Trump when I clearly am.

In football we say play the ball not the man. Some of you are dodgy refs ignoring Biden committing a foul.

PolitiFact.com - Biden didn’t blame Elton John for AIDS

On Sept. 23, President Joe Biden surprised singer Elton John with a National Humanities Medal. Biden recognized the long

www.politifact.com

"Biden’s remarks in context make it clear that he wasn’t blaming John for AIDS, a disease caused by HIV, an infection that attacks the body’s immune system. The video shows John applauding Biden’s "it’s all his fault" comment, and applause and cheers from the audience are also audible."


Also wasn't this in September 2022? Someone dug it up and tried to twist it presumably.

 

[braineclipse]

He didn't say it was a waste.

Biden said was it's his "fault". At a fundraising thingy. Obviously celebratory. Obviously in praise.

It's like someone saying it's Ange's "fault" someone's spent more money watching Spurs this season in a slightly fun, obviously congratulatory way.

Do you really need language to be boringly literal at all times? Or is it just a thing that shows up when it fits with your preconceived notions of what leftists are like?

 

[thfcsteff]

He is, though not nearly as smart as he himself seems to think. He also does at times surround himself with people who are also smart/good at navigating the political landscape and scam-scum behaviour.

But part of that is also the absolute scumbaggery of many in the republican party who are seemingly willing to go to just about any length to keep getting those justices and get/keep power.

This is perhaps his most remarkable feat, finding a revolving support team who will tolerate his madness and protect him. It goes to show that if you look in the right trenches, there's a steady supplu of souless, power-hungry and greedy fudges.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm allowed to think that saying money spent on aids research was a waste. Is offensive.

Because it is offensive and all diseases including the one I have should have money spent on them trying to cure them.

My issue is with people trying to defend it. Biased behaviour and unfairness does not sit well with me, people would rightly be upset had Trump said that.

Now if you asked me my take on it then I would say it was a disgusting comment from a president(who is not now mentally capable). But if you wanted to do a league table and its clear you and others want to, then it is one point for Biden and I don't know about 400 for Trump in the stupid offensive remarks stakes.

But I understand perfectly now, we don't comment on stupid stuff people do if we like them.

Also for the record I called out Son when he injured that Bournemouth player a couple of years ago. Good player but he went to injure the guy that day. I don't always achieve it but I try to be impartial. Yours and others lack of impartiality has made it look like I'm not anti Trump when I clearly am.

In football we say play the ball not the man. Some of you are dodgy refs ignoring Biden committing a foul.

Do you know about dialectic thinking? Genuine question, not goading.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yet he is so unpredictable if he felt like it he would attack them. Not because of a coherent defence strategy but because he stubbed his toe getting out of bed and was in a mood.

He would never attack Russia IMO. Firstly, he would have to get through generals, etc, who would likely stand against that, and secondly, if he had a bad morning and got an itchy finger, Putin would simply tie the gag ball in a bit harder and pull the restraints a bit more taut too...

 

[DubSpur]

I'm allowed to think that saying money spent on aids research was a waste. Is offensive.

Because it is offensive and all diseases including the one I have should have money spent on them trying to cure them.

My issue is with people trying to defend it. Biased behaviour and unfairness does not sit well with me, people would rightly be upset had Trump said that.

Now if you asked me my take on it then I would say it was a disgusting comment from a president(who is not now mentally capable). But if you wanted to do a league table and its clear you and others want to, then it is one point for Biden and I don't know about 400 for Trump in the stupid offensive remarks stakes.

But I understand perfectly now, we don't comment on stupid stuff people do if we like them.

Also for the record I called out Son when he injured that Bournemouth player a couple of years ago. Good player but he went to injure the guy that day. I don't always achieve it but I try to be impartial. Yours and others lack of impartiality has made it look like I'm not anti Trump when I clearly am.

In football we say play the ball not the man. Some of you are dodgy refs ignoring Biden committing a foul.

Show me where he said spending money was a waste? If you bothered to check the link I posted in my last response the evidence is the opposite. If he felt it was a waste he wouldn't be extending the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS relief.

How is it clear that I want a league table comparing Trump and Biden. I never mentioned Trump and just pointed out that Bidens actions are contrary to your statement that he thinks the money spent on Aids is a waste.

As for liking Biden, don't care about him either way. Think it's a sad state of affairs that him and Trump are the two likely candidates in the next election.

It's obvious that you are entrenched in your view on this and won't accept that you are not interpreting the real meaning behind what Biden said.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

He didn't say it was a waste.

Biden said was it's his "fault". At a fundraising thingy. Obviously celebratory. Obviously in praise.

It's like someone saying it's Ange's "fault" someone's spent more money watching Spurs this season in a slightly fun, obviously congratulatory way.

Do you really need language to be boringly literal at all times? Or is it just a thing that shows up when it fits with your preconceived notions of what leftists are like?

Yes, it has to be all of the time or none of the time. You can't pick and choose to suit your agenda.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Show me where he said spending money was a waste? If you bothered to check the link I posted in my last response the evidence is the opposite. If he felt it was a waste he wouldn't be extending the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS relief.

How is it clear that I want a league table comparing Trump and Biden. I never mentioned Trump and just pointed out that Bidens actions are contrary to your statement that he thinks the money spent on Aids is a waste.

As for liking Biden, don't care about him either way. Think it's a sad state of affairs that him and Trump are the two likely candidates in the next election.

It's obvious that you are entrenched in your view on this and won't accept that you are not interpreting the real meaning behind what Biden said.

I'm just taking his words at face value same as I do all public figures. Also suggesting that the are real meanings behind statements mean that anyone can say that to back any statement.

Perhaps a Trump supporter could come out and say that Trump meant something else when Trump said he would let Putin do whatever he wanted.

I'm no more entrenched in my view then you or the others. I just have a different view, but rather then accepting that people have different views you go down the path of saying I'm entrenched in my view, thus trying to belittle that view.

Its been done to death and am happy to leave it. You don't think it was offensive, I do. I know someone going against the majority on here baffles you guys.


My point being that when you have two different people held to different standards it can be dangerous for an electorate to think that things are fair.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

He would never attack Russia IMO. Firstly, he would have to get through generals, etc, who would likely stand against that, and secondly, if he had a bad morning and got an itchy finger, Putin would simply tie the gag ball in a bit harder and pull the restraints a bit more taut too...

Lol what an image.

I hope your right stuff and as I have said many times, including in the first post in this thread. Trump is crazy, please don't vote for him.

 

[spurspinter1]

It's like a multiple choice where you can A - Admit you've misunderstood something and hold your hands up, safe in the knowledge that the general points you made are fair and reasonable despite getting a bit muddled on this one.

Or B - Double down to then pretend you're getting ganged up on by those with an agenda.

I should just leave it alone but it's fascinating to see it unfold in real time. Never change DFL, it's unbelievably frustrating and is a cracking microcosm for humans / communication in general lol.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

It's like a multiple choice where you can A - Admit you've misunderstood something and hold your hands up, safe in the knowledge that the general points you made are fair and reasonable despite getting a bit muddled on this one.

Or B - Double down to then pretend you're getting ganged up on by those with an agenda.

I should just leave it alone but it's fascinating to see it unfold in real time. Never change DFL, it's unbelievably frustrating and is a cracking microcosm for humans / communication in general lol.

Honestly feels like your trolling.

But it happens a lit in this and the political thread that people only criticise someone on the opposite side of 'their' politics. Where as if you were all as fair minded and deeply cynical as me the world would be a fair and healthier place.

Does not surprise me to see you come in to the debate as you have a long history of trolling, rather then just debating a position on a topic.