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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

DubaiSpur said:
Ahhhhh. Now I remember. I think I mentioned Aulas from Lyon, Watzke from Dortmund and Agnelli from Juve - my point was that these men brought clubs out of struggling circumstances and onto greater heights than Levy's managed (I think). :p

Oh, I'm not expecting Poch to reach the heights Klopp did at Dortmund by any means. Klopp's achievements are special for a reason - if we expect every promising young manager to do what he did, then they cease to become exceptional, don't they?

Poch has done well, on his own terms - I don't think anyone can be unhappy about his time here on the whole, and I hope he'll get some slack if we go on to have a bad season under him in the future (given what he's achieved so far). And I think @simon harris perhaps hasn't been discussing this subject in good faith, sadly.

However, there are areas where Poch has flaws, and I'm not particularly fussed about pointing them out - that is not 'doubting this man's ability', since I also think he's shown that he also has the drive and ability to improve upon them (as proven with his tactical tinkering this season in response to our tried-and-tested 4-2-3-1 proving flat). But he's not perfect at present, and I think that maybe sometimes we (all of us) go a bit far in assuming that he is or assuming that any criticism of him inevitably comes from a less-than-honest position.
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I'm not starting that one again Dubai!! Let's just put that in the agree to disagree bucket!

I've got no problems with anyone saying that Poch is not perfect. He has made mistakes, but the guy is a) a human and b) a young manager. Both of those facts mean that he will make mistakes. However, our standing in the league, our performances this season, our defence and also our FA Cup exploits say that on the whole he is doing a pretty damn good job. To say otherwise is being disingenuous and actually unfair.

@simon harris - Well, all I can say is from the looks of things, there's not one person on this message board that agrees with you. You have steadfastly refused to be engaged in any meaningful conversation, instead preferring to come out with bland, daily mail type jibberish. As a spurs fan to a fellow spurs fan, look at this team and where it has come from. Go back 3 years and remember where we were. Then go back 10 years. Then 20. Then, critically look at which managers have really made a tangible difference to our team. There won't be many. Then critically look at who has got the best record in terms of position in the league. That should say it all. If it doesn't, look back on any of those managers, and highlight just one that has managed to transform any 3 players like Poch has done with Rose, Walker and Dembele where others had failed.

Then look at any other managers in the EPL over that time and do the same. You'll be able to count them on one hand.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I'm not starting that one again Dubai!! Let's just put that in the agree to disagree bucket!

I've got no problems with anyone saying that Poch is not perfect. He has made mistakes, but the guy is a) a human and b) a young manager. Both of those facts mean that he will make mistakes. However, our standing in the league, our performances this season, our defence and also our FA Cup exploits say that on the whole he is doing a pretty damn good job. To say otherwise is being disingenuous and actually unfair.
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Fair, and I don't disagree - barring some hideous incoming late season collapse or something. :p

Gazzasrightboot said:
Then critically look at who has got the best record in terms of position in the league. That should say it all. If it doesn't, look back on any of those managers, and highlight just one that has managed to transform any 3 players like Poch has done with Rose, Walker and Dembele where others had failed.

Then look at any other managers in the EPL over that time and do the same. You'll be able to count them on one hand.
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I know this was meant for @simon harris , but I couldn't resist having a crack - how about Harry with Benny, Bale and Modric? Benny was...well, Benny before Harry came in, and became one of the best left backs we've had in the PL era during his tenure. Bale was an injury-plagued left back with the whole 'winless' curse hanging over him, and became a brutally effective, magnificently skillful winger by the time Harry left. Modric was weak and indecisive under Juande (granted, he only got two-odd months under him so it wasn't much of a sample size to base any 'pre-Harry' observations on), but became first a solid, technically-skilled winger and then the central midfielder we know today under Harry.

Just for discussion purposes, mind - I think Modric and Bale in particular were always imbued with supreme talent that (conversely) Rose and Walker didn't neccessarily have, and that skews things towards Poch in terms of his fantastic job with those latter players in particular.
 
Poch could turn Heskey into Drogba don't discredit the man for what he has done with individual players.

fudge off to anyone who saw this meteoric rise in Rose, Walker, Dembele etc.

Wanyama looks like he is only out shadowed by kante.

Not only that he is using the academy that we piled a fortune into and gives any young player food to think of when considering a move to either Chelsea utd arsenal etc.

I want poch to be here for a long long time if he continues his continuity and growth.

He will make mistakes let's not be harsh and accept that he is not the finished article but fudge we have a top top manager already with the potential to go on to being a true legend.

This feat is even more impressive with the current money muscles of other clubs and some top managers in the league.
 
Gazza said:
Poch could turn Heskey into Drogba don't discredit the man for what he has done with individual players.

fudge off to anyone who saw this meteoric rise in Rose, Walker, Dembele etc.

Wanyama looks like he is only out shadowed by kante.

Not only that he is using the academy that we piled a fortune into and gives any young player food to think of when considering a move to either Chelsea utd arsenal etc.

I want poch to be here for a long long time if he continues his continuity and growth.

He will make mistakes let's not be harsh and accept that he is not the finished article but fudge we have a top top manager already with the potential to go on to being a true legend.

This feat is even more impressive with the current money muscles of other clubs and some top managers in the league.
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Plus I loved his celebration after we scored the third goal against Everton.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Fair, and I don't disagree - barring some hideous incoming late season collapse or something. :p

I know this was meant for @simon harris , but I couldn't resist having a crack - how about Harry with Benny, Bale and Modric? Benny was...well, Benny before Harry came in, and became one of the best left backs we've had in the PL era during his tenure. Bale was an injury-plagued left back with the whole 'winless' curse hanging over him, and became a brutally effective, magnificently skillful winger by the time Harry left. Modric was weak and indecisive under Juande (granted, he only got two-odd months under him so it wasn't much of a sample size to base any 'pre-Harry' observations on), but became first a solid, technically-skilled winger and then the central midfielder we know today under Harry.

Just for discussion purposes, mind - I think Modric and Bale in particular were always imbued with supreme talent that (conversely) Rose and Walker didn't neccessarily have, and that skews things towards Poch in terms of his fantastic job with those latter players in particular.
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Are you Simon in disguise???

Seriously though, whilst I agree with Bale and Benny, I think Modric had always been quality. Secondly, and this makes it difficult for comparison, but Harry got us top 4 and in nowhere near as close a title challenge as Poch. I've got a lot of respect for Harry, and will always remember him as a real positive for this club, but in my mind Poch has surpassed Harry's achievements. It's close though I will concede.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
Are you Simon in disguise???

Seriously though, whilst I agree with Bale and Benny, I think Modric had always been quality. Secondly, and this makes it difficult for comparison, but Harry got us top 4 and in nowhere near as close a title challenge as Poch. I've got a lot of respect for Harry, and will always remember him as a real positive for this club, but in my mind Poch has surpassed Harry's achievements. It's close though I will concede.
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And Harry had to rescue us from a horrible start. I did some deep searching (it took half a day) and apparently we'd only had 2 points from 8 games when he came in.
 
Gazzasrightboot said:
I'm not starting that one again Dubai!! Let's just put that in the agree to disagree bucket!

I've got no problems with anyone saying that Poch is not perfect. He has made mistakes, but the guy is a) a human and b) a young manager. Both of those facts mean that he will make mistakes. However, our standing in the league, our performances this season, our defence and also our FA Cup exploits say that on the whole he is doing a pretty damn good job. To say otherwise is being disingenuous and actually unfair.

@simon harris - Well, all I can say is from the looks of things, there's not one person on this message board that agrees with you. You have steadfastly refused to be engaged in any meaningful conversation, instead preferring to come out with bland, daily mail type jibberish. As a spurs fan to a fellow spurs fan, look at this team and where it has come from. Go back 3 years and remember where we were. Then go back 10 years. Then 20. Then, critically look at which managers have really made a tangible difference to our team. There won't be many. Then critically look at who has got the best record in terms of position in the league. That should say it all. If it doesn't, look back on any of those managers, and highlight just one that has managed to transform any 3 players like Poch has done with Rose, Walker and Dembele where others had failed.

Then look at any other managers in the EPL over that time and do the same. You'll be able to count them on one hand.
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Absolute rubbish. Yes we have moved on considerably since the days of Ramos, albeit he won us the last trophy. Harry had us playing great football and took us to the CL quarter finals, something Poch has found totally out of his reach. Since Arry we have been a top six side, and to give Poch his credit he has kept us there. Last year we won nothing, bottled it out of three competitions and finished behind Arsenal after our best chance ever of avoiding St Tottinghams day. In short, last season was a complete disaster, and this season has a long way to go. Who knows, we may win the FA cup and come second, in which case I will bow down to everyone's greater knowledge. I don't expect to much from a club which spends almost nothing on signings, but the fact is our first 11 are very good. Anything less than 2nd or the FA cup, and I want him out, SIMPLES
 
simon harris said:
Absolute rubbish. Yes we have moved on considerably since the days of Ramos, albeit he won us the last trophy. Harry had us playing great football and took us to the CL quarter finals, something Poch has found totally out of his reach. Since Arry we have been a top six side, and to give Poch his credit he has kept us there. Last year we won nothing, bottled it out of three competitions and finished behind Arsenal after our best chance ever of avoiding St Tottinghams day. In short, last season was a complete disaster, and this season has a long way to go. Who knows, we may win the FA cup and come second, in which case I will bow down to everyone's greater knowledge. I don't expect to much from a club which spends almost nothing on signings, but the fact is our first 11 are very good. Anything less than 2nd or the FA cup, and I want him out, SIMPLES
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I don't know a single Spurs fan who calls it that
 
simon harris said:
Absolute rubbish. Yes we have moved on considerably since the days of Ramos, albeit he won us the last trophy. Harry had us playing great football and took us to the CL quarter finals, something Poch has found totally out of his reach. Since Arry we have been a top six side, and to give Poch his credit he has kept us there. Last year we won nothing, bottled it out of three competitions and finished behind Arsenal after our best chance ever of avoiding St Tottinghams day. In short, last season was a complete disaster, and this season has a long way to go. Who knows, we may win the FA cup and come second, in which case I will bow down to everyone's greater knowledge. I don't expect to much from a club which spends almost nothing on signings, but the fact is our first 11 are very good. Anything less than 2nd or the FA cup, and I want him out, SIMPLES
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WUM status: confirmed
 
Seriously though if you want to go down the route of signing up to another clubs fans forum with the intention of winding up the locals (not sure why you'd want to do that but hey ho) at least be subtle
 
simon harris said:
Absolute rubbish. Yes we have moved on considerably since the days of Ramos, albeit he won us the last trophy. Harry had us playing great football and took us to the CL quarter finals, something Poch has found totally out of his reach. Since Arry we have been a top six side, and to give Poch his credit he has kept us there. Last year we won nothing, bottled it out of three competitions and finished behind Arsenal after our best chance ever of avoiding St Tottinghams day. In short, last season was a complete disaster, and this season has a long way to go. Who knows, we may win the FA cup and come second, in which case I will bow down to everyone's greater knowledge. I don't expect to much from a club which spends almost nothing on signings, but the fact is our first 11 are very good. Anything less than 2nd or the FA cup, and I want him out, SIMPLES
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My friend, first point. you clearly confuse net spend with costs of players (despite your self-professed intelligence). Have you forgotten the 30 mill on Sissoko and the 17 and Janssen? AND if you don't expect 'to (sic) much from a club which spends almost nothing on signings' do you expect a head coach to win things within the confines of such a policy?

I feel sorry for you that last season was a 'complete disaster'. What a shame that despite the collapse at the end of the season - which was awful and painful - you clearly did not enjoy the style of football that we played with the youngest team in the division.

And seriously, who would you bring in should Poch be such an abject failure again?
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Think he's on a protest somewhere.
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