The Stats Thread

[Raziel]

GD version of table (I think it normalizes results a bit more than that brick from RAWK)

Table order -> current EPL position, team, GD, Pts

1 Emirates Marketing Project 16 29
5 Tottenham Hotspur 13 25
4 Arsenal 12 27
3 Manchester United 10 28
2 Leicester City 8 29
9 Everton 8 21
7 Crystal Palace 5 22
8 West Ham United 4 22
6 Liverpool 3 23
10 Southampton 3 20
11 Watford -1 19
12 Stoke City -3 19
13 West Bromwich Albion -5 18
15 Swansea City -5 14
14 Chelsea -6 15
16 Norwich City -8 13
17 Sunderland -10 12
18 Bournemouth -13 10
20 Aston Villa -15 5
19 Saudi Sportswashing Machine -16 10

 

[Spurs7891]

Apparently our current 13 match unbeaten run is our best unbeaten run since the 1984-85 season. But the problem is we have drawn too many matches during this run. In fact, we have drawn the most number of matches (7), than any other team in the league so far.

Frankly, unbeaten run is worthless if you don't win enough matches. Just imagine this, Palace who have lost 6 matches are only 3 points behind us despite us only losing 1 match. This clearly shows how much points we have lost by drawing 7 matches. Afterall, 2 wins and 4 loses are equal to 6 draws. We better start winning more matches this season !

 

[braineclipse]

Apparently our current 13 match unbeaten run is our best unbeaten run since the 1984-85 season. But the problem is we have drawn too many matches during this run. In fact, we have drawn the most number of matches (7), than any other team in the league so far.

Frankly, unbeaten run is worthless if you don't win enough matches. Just imagine this, Palace who have lost 6 matches are only 3 points behind us despite us only losing 1 match. This clearly shows how much points we have lost by drawing 7 matches. Afterall, 2 wins and 4 loses are equal to 6 draws. We better start winning more matches this season !

Not losing is a great place to build from however people try to spin it.

Anything in football is worthless if you don't win enough matches.

You can say that we've lost points by drawing those games. Another way of looking at it is that we've gained points by not losing games we would have lost in previous seasons.

Of course we have to get better. But why people feel the need to be negative about our undefeated run is beyond me.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The team need to feel like a draw is a loss, and bounce back with wins.

 

[braineclipse]

The team need to feel like a draw is a loss, and bounce back with wins.

Our young team needs to take confidence from things like our undefeated run. We tried to win today, we just lacked the quality. I'm not seeing any signs that the team is happy with a draw just because we've been undefeated for a long time. Around half way through the second half today possession stats were showing us with 75% possession in the second half. We couldn't find the openings, but not for a lack of trying.

A draw away to a mid table team is not a loss. Draw some of those games, win some, lose just about never sound pretty awesome to me based on where we stand at the moment.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

14 unbeaten.

Now, let's look at it again.

14 unbeaten, by the youngest team in the Premier League.

14 unbeaten playing attacking football in keeping with our proud tradition.

14 unbeaten in the most competitive league in the World (Leicester are top FFS, not Chelsea or City or Utd but Leicester).

14 unbeaten in a run that involved matches against Arsenal where we played them off the pitch on their own turf, Chelsea back to their bare minimum expectation, Liverpool parking the bus and Emirates Marketing Project and West Ham being whacked 4-1 and a 5-1 away win to boot.

14 unbeaten with a team mainly made up of academy players.

14 unbeaten after no net spend for quite a while.

Yes we draw too much, I was as frustrated as anyone after the final whistle, especially after seeing the Goons go 2nd but for once in your lives look at the overwhelming positives.

This team is going places, it's most probably the best I've seen, in terms of cost and age ratios. We have one of the best strikers around in Kane, Eriksen is like a mix of Van der Vaart and Del Piero, Delle Ali is just immense, Jan and Toby part of an incredible defence, Loris the best keeper I have ever seen at this club and above all else a very good team. All of them contribute, we're not relying on just one player anymore.

If this lot start finishing off teams then we're in for one he'll of a season.

This team needs a trophy, wins one and the sky's the limit. Top 4? Yes please but over trophies? I don't think so.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Our young team needs to take confidence from things like our undefeated run. We tried to win today, we just lacked the quality. I'm not seeing any signs that the team is happy with a draw just because we've been undefeated for a long time. Around half way through the second half today possession stats were showing us with 75% possession in the second half. We couldn't find the openings, but not for a lack of trying.

A draw away to a mid table team is not a loss. Draw some of those games, win some, lose just about never sound pretty awesome to me based on where we stand at the moment.

Just a mental approach. How many games do teams win after a loss? It focuses the mind and preparation. We need to feel pain at these losses and return with victories.

 

[braineclipse]

Just a mental approach. How many games do teams win after a loss? It focuses the mind and preparation. We need to feel paid at these losses and return with victories.

I see no reason to think there's anything wrong with our mental approach in terms of wanting to win games... Just seems like the most recent narrative people are fitting to a disappointing couple of results.

Did we look happy with a draw today? fudge no...

 

[DubaiSpur]

14 unbeaten.

Now, let's look at it again.

14 unbeaten, by the youngest team in the Premier League.

14 unbeaten playing attacking football in keeping with our proud tradition.

14 unbeaten in the most competitive league in the World (Leicester are top FFS, not Chel53a or City or Utd but Leicester).

14 unbeaten with a team mainly made up of academy players.

14 unbeaten after no net spend for quite a while.

Yes we draw too much, I was as frustrated as anyone after the final whistle, especially after seeing the Goons go 2nd but for once in your lives look at the overwhelming positives.

This team is going places, it's most probably the best I've seen, in terms of cost and age ratios. We have one of the best strikers around in Kane, Eriksen is like a mix of Van der Vaart and Del Piero, Delle Ali is just immense, Jan and Toby part of an incredible defence, Loris the best keeper I have ever seen at this club and above all else a very good team. All of them contribute, we're not relying on just one player anymore.

This team needs a trophy, wins one and the sky's the limit. Top 4? Yes please but over trophies? I don't think so.

Come on, mate, we were very poor today. If we have to preface that statement by saying 'oh, everything's going swimmingly everywhere else' we're 14 unbeaten, 14 unbeaten playing attacking football in keeping with our proud tradition, yada yada yada,' then I doubt much discussion would happen, because it creates a pre-arranged narrative that discourages contrary opinions.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I see no reason to think there's anything wrong with our mental approach in terms of wanting to win games... Just seems like the most recent narrative people are fitting to a disappointing couple of results.

Did we look happy with a draw today? fudge no...

Its not about how the team look, its about how they react. And how the manager can use psychology to get the results we need.

 

[braineclipse]

Come on, mate, we were very poor today. If we have to preface that statement by saying 'oh, everything's going swimmingly everywhere else' we're 14 unbeaten, 14 unbeaten playing attacking football in keeping with our proud tradition, yada yada yada,' then I doubt much discussion would happen, because it creates a pre-arranged narrative that discourages contrary opinions.

How many previous seasons have you seen us "poor" away to a Pulis side and coming away with what most people probably consider a well deserved point.

I expect inconsistency from our young side. If this is our new standard for "poor" we've come a long way in deed. That's not to say we need to settle where we are - we need to get better. But I don't think a positive outlook is misplaced at this point.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Typical message board response.

Yes it's not all sunshine and rainbows....y'know what I f'ing give up. Yes there's problems and I'm sure all the FM warriors can solve them, t'riffic.

 

[braineclipse]

Its not about how the team look, its about how they react. And how the manager can use psychology to get the results we need.

And I'm saying it seems like the team is reacting really well.

 

[DubaiSpur]

How many previous seasons have you seen us "poor" away to a Pulis side and coming away with what most people probably consider a well deserved point.

I expect inconsistency from our young side. If this is our new standard for "poor" we've come a long way in deed. That's not to say we need to settle where we are - we need to get better. But I don't think a positive outlook is misplaced at this point.

You can have a positive outlook for the season but also accept that we were very poor today - it doesn't always have to be restated prior to any criticism of our performance. I've seen us play 'poorly' against a Pulis side before, and get a point from playing his sides before - however, what bothers me a little bit is that I hoped we'd do more than just hang on by the tips of our fingernails against a dominating performance by his side, and do more than ultimately be grateful we stole a point. We've done that before. I hope we won't have to do it in the future: I'd rather be like Arsenal and undeservedly lose a game against West Brom after dominating than draw but get battered, outfought and outplayed for 45-60 minutes.

 

[SpurMeUp]

And I'm saying it seems like the team is reacting really well.

Yes I agree. Apart from the spell after we scored. about 20 minutes where we were naive and rash. We needed to stamp our authority onto the game, but kept giving them possession. Its was like the team had thought we're 1 up this really isn't that difficult. Our performance dropped for those 20 mins. We needed to take possession and impose our game as we did at other stages of the game. Instead we gave away fouls and constantly lost possession. The rest of the game we were excellent. Second half they had chances because we were pushing for the win.

 

[braineclipse]

You can have a positive outlook for the season but also accept that we were very poor today - it doesn't always have to be restated prior to any criticism of our performance. I've seen us play 'poorly' against a Pulis side before, and get a point from playing his sides before - however, what bothers me a little bit is that I hoped we'd do more than just hang on by the tips of our fingernails against a dominating performance by his side, and do more than ultimately be grateful we stole a point. We've done that before. I hope we won't have to do it in the future: I'd rather be like Arsenal and undeservedly lose a game against West Brom after dominating than draw but get battered, outfought and outplayed for 45-60 minutes.

We were poor by our standards, but both from the commentators and match stats we deserved a point. I don't think "very poor" is fair.

We had chances, they had chances, I don't think we were just hanging on by the tips of our fingernails. Again, half way through the second half we had 75% possession. I know you know I don't think possession is the end all be all, but it seems strange that we were having 75% possession whilst being dominated. There were periods where they were the better team and periods where we were the better team. I would say our chances overall were similar. They had Olsson one on one with Hugo after a set piece, we had Kane one on one as well as the offside that shouldn't have been called with Clinton.

I accept criticism of our performance today. We weren't good enough. But this is then taken to another level when it's criticism of our unbeaten streak, this is what I'm taking issue with. And that's what SMC's post you quoted was taking issue with.

That being said... Probably a bad idea for me to come on here arguing for looking at context and the bigger picture right after a game when our performance was disappointing and our result was at best "a bit meh". That's my bad...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sorry @DubaiSpur but how were they battering us? I agree they fought us but if they were battering us surely then Hugo would have made more than one decent save (it was top drawer)???

I thought they gave a good account as you episode expect a week organised side at home. I thought we looked disjointed but Dembele was the best player on the pitch IMO

Kane and eriksen were gash and that didn't help

We should have won in reality with the Njie chance robbed by a poor Lino call... But that balances out the city ones against us

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We were poor by our standards, but both from the commentators and match stats we deserved a point. I don't think "very poor" is fair.

We had chances, they had chances, I don't think we were just hanging on by the tips of our fingernails. Again, half way through the second half we had 75% possession. I know you know I don't think possession is the end all be all, but it seems strange that we were having 75% possession whilst being dominated. There were periods where they were the better team and periods where we were the better team. I would say our chances overall were similar. They had Olsson one on one with Hugo after a set piece, we had Kane one on one as well as the offside that shouldn't have been called with Clinton.

I accept criticism of our performance today. We weren't good enough. But this is then taken to another level when it's criticism of our unbeaten streak, this is what I'm taking issue with. And that's what SMC's post you quoted was taking issue with.

That being said... Probably a bad idea for me to come on here arguing for looking at context and the bigger picture right after a game when our performance was disappointing and our result was at best "a bit meh". That's my bad...

Surely it's a good time to bring context to the argument like your doing

It wasn't a great performance but we certainly were worthy of the draw as you say

 

[Raziel]

You can have a positive outlook for the season but also accept that we were very poor today - it doesn't always have to be restated prior to any criticism of our performance. I've seen us play 'poorly' against a Pulis side before, and get a point from playing his sides before - however, what bothers me a little bit is that I hoped we'd do more than just hang on by the tips of our fingernails against a dominating performance by his side, and do more than ultimately be grateful we stole a point. We've done that before. I hope we won't have to do it in the future: I'd rather be like Arsenal and undeservedly lose a game against West Brom after dominating than draw but get battered, outfought and outplayed for 45-60 minutes.

A bit over the top mate ... nothing even close to that ..

Were we poor, yes, we let their rough house tactics disrupt our game, we let the game be too open at moments and we struggled to deal with how compact they defend. But lets not pretend they "dominated us", there was a point in the second half where we must of had 30+ touches just outside their 18 yard line, and they couldn't touch it ..

Put off our game, poor creatively and general not good day at office ... but not outplayed comprehensively by any means ...

 

[DubaiSpur]

Sorry @DubaiSpur but how were they battering us? I agree they fought us but if they were battering us surely then Hugo would have made more than one decent save (it was top drawer)???

I thought they gave a good account as you episode expect a week organised side at home. I thought we looked disjointed but Dembele was the best player on the pitch IMO

Kane and eriksen were gash and that didn't help

We should have won in reality with the Njie chance robbed by a poor Lino call... But that balances out the city ones against us

Actually, I think he made three good saves: the one point-blank one from Olsson, the two attempts to grab the vicious strike by Rondon a bit later and another one against (I think) Morrison at the start of the second half. They were organized, we were disjointed, but more than that, we were outfought: we lost almost every second ball in the second half, and the number of times West Brom stole the ball off us and then launched it forward on threatening attacks is an indication of the momentum they enjoyed throughout most of the second half.

We were poor by our standards, but both from the commentators and match stats we deserved a point. I don't think "very poor" is fair.

We had chances, they had chances, I don't think we were just hanging on by the tips of our fingernails. Again, half way through the second half we had 75% possession. I know you know I don't think possession is the end all be all, but it seems strange that we were having 75% possession whilst being dominated. There were periods where they were the better team and periods where we were the better team. I would say our chances overall were similar. They had Olsson one on one with Hugo after a set piece, we had Kane one on one as well as the offside that shouldn't have been called with Clinton.

I accept criticism of our performance today. We weren't good enough. But this is then taken to another level when it's criticism of our unbeaten streak, this is what I'm taking issue with. And that's what SMC's post you quoted was taking issue with.

That being said... Probably a bad idea for me to come on here arguing for looking at context and the bigger picture right after a game when our performance was disappointing and our result was at best "a bit meh". That's my bad...

It isn't criticism of our unbeaten streak, as I said: personally, the positive is that our unbeaten run goes on, whatever the circumstances, and that can't be overlooked. However, it shouldn't always be stated as a prerequisite to criticising individual performances, that's all. And no, it's fine to come in arguing for context and the bigger picture, as long as you can also see that the micro-level display was inadequate today, and not insist on the prefacing of every comment with 'but the bigger picture is good'.

And come on, we were hanging on. The possession we had was forced back into our own box by their pressing, and any passes sent up the field came back at us with what seemed like an unceasing regularity.