glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
I can see formations, but I can't see plans to play in the formation, we do not look coached.
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***OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Burnlio, Sat Jan 24th, 3pm***
- Thread starter thfcsteff
- Start date
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Steve Carr
Honestly thought we were by far the better team and fully deserved to win that. Surprised by the negativity I’m seeing. Ridiculous errors for their goals but we had by far the better chances.
parj
Moussa Saib
The number one thing I see is get the ball wide and cross into the box if there is >0 Tottenham players in the box.
Muttley
Milija Aleksic
What I saw today was the following:
- Too many players drifting in an out of giving 100%. The biggest culprits were Spence, Xavi and to a certain extent, Odobert. Not the only ones though. I said earlier, I'd love to give Spence and Xavi a lot of what Porro has. Romero has it as well. If we had 11 with Romero psychology on that pitch then we are a better team. Our captain crawled off that pitch today.
- Solanke fading. We were a much better team when Solanke was fresher. As his lack of true match fitness came to the foreground in the 2nd half, we looked a lesser team. Then we got a little stronger again as Scarlett came on. I believe that a physical presence is critical to a Frank system at Spurs.
- What @Steff and others have said about patterns of play is mostly fair. I would go further and say that some of our decision making in the moment is not that great. It makes the pattern of play argument more exaggerated than it is and puts it on Frank more than the players. When I look closely, Frank isn't the reason players make bad passing choices or under-hit these passes.
- Our crossing is just woeful. Frank must be pulling his hair out that he's developed this system based on getting the balls into the box from wide areas and he watches in disbelief as we are so bad at it. It's not just technique either. It's picking the wrong type of cross e.g. when Spence hammered it at chest height rather than run in behind along the ground.
- Our finishing isn't great. I think we knew this already. Only Tel gets a let off here as he almost scored from less than a half chance. Other players had much easier chances and fluffed their lines. We finish slightly better today and we win comfortably. Some good saves from the keeper though.
- Our simple passing was terrible again. More under hit passes than I care to remember. Also, we keep playing the passes at the man or just behind. We don't seem to play the ball into a player that should be running forward so we keep losing momentum.
- Our defending in key moments wasn't great. Romero, Vic, VDV, Spence etc were culpable as well as a couple of the midfielders. It's that old thing were you might get away with one error, probably two. In our goals conceded you can see everything from a keeper stranded on his line to a full-back ball watching and then pathetically sticking his arm up to pretend he was playing offside.
- On a more positive note, I though Gallagher had a little step up in sharpness and performance. Bissouma was also pretty decent and didn't even get booked.
- Last one.....lack of yellow cards being shown is killing this league by PGMOL. It's not that the ref had a shocker like last week but if you put 4 or 5 of them on yellows based on the laws of the game then it could be different. One player kicked the ball away aggressively and it hit a female steward. Nothing given. Pathetic.
The ride is just about to get tougher. We will be in a relegation scrap if we're not careful.
- Too many players drifting in an out of giving 100%. The biggest culprits were Spence, Xavi and to a certain extent, Odobert. Not the only ones though. I said earlier, I'd love to give Spence and Xavi a lot of what Porro has. Romero has it as well. If we had 11 with Romero psychology on that pitch then we are a better team. Our captain crawled off that pitch today.
- Solanke fading. We were a much better team when Solanke was fresher. As his lack of true match fitness came to the foreground in the 2nd half, we looked a lesser team. Then we got a little stronger again as Scarlett came on. I believe that a physical presence is critical to a Frank system at Spurs.
- What @Steff and others have said about patterns of play is mostly fair. I would go further and say that some of our decision making in the moment is not that great. It makes the pattern of play argument more exaggerated than it is and puts it on Frank more than the players. When I look closely, Frank isn't the reason players make bad passing choices or under-hit these passes.
- Our crossing is just woeful. Frank must be pulling his hair out that he's developed this system based on getting the balls into the box from wide areas and he watches in disbelief as we are so bad at it. It's not just technique either. It's picking the wrong type of cross e.g. when Spence hammered it at chest height rather than run in behind along the ground.
- Our finishing isn't great. I think we knew this already. Only Tel gets a let off here as he almost scored from less than a half chance. Other players had much easier chances and fluffed their lines. We finish slightly better today and we win comfortably. Some good saves from the keeper though.
- Our simple passing was terrible again. More under hit passes than I care to remember. Also, we keep playing the passes at the man or just behind. We don't seem to play the ball into a player that should be running forward so we keep losing momentum.
- Our defending in key moments wasn't great. Romero, Vic, VDV, Spence etc were culpable as well as a couple of the midfielders. It's that old thing were you might get away with one error, probably two. In our goals conceded you can see everything from a keeper stranded on his line to a full-back ball watching and then pathetically sticking his arm up to pretend he was playing offside.
- On a more positive note, I though Gallagher had a little step up in sharpness and performance. Bissouma was also pretty decent and didn't even get booked.
- Last one.....lack of yellow cards being shown is killing this league by PGMOL. It's not that the ref had a shocker like last week but if you put 4 or 5 of them on yellows based on the laws of the game then it could be different. One player kicked the ball away aggressively and it hit a female steward. Nothing given. Pathetic.
The ride is just about to get tougher. We will be in a relegation scrap if we're not careful.
It's not this game in isolation that's the problem. We've been poor for months, so when you get an unlucky draw against the second worst team in the league it's not going to be viewed as a positive, he has no credit in the bank for these type of results to be fine.
And probably why he should have been sacked after the West Ham game, because even when he gets a positive result or two he will only be one result away from the toxicity again. Had we beat Burnley, and then lost one of the upcoming games it would be back to square one with the fans. It really is dead man walking stuff....
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Steve Carr
Yeah I hear you.
Honestly my view was that I was done with the Frank project after the Villa match, because the season was over. The West Ham match made me think the players had given up on him and therefore a change was inevitable, but Dortmund showed they hadn’t given up. He put some plans in place for that game and they carried it out.
So now I’m like…I really don’t know. If the view of the club is that they genuinely see Frank as the long term guy, and the players believe in him, I’m happy to roll with it. Equally, if the opportunity comes to get Poch in I would do it,
I think Frank has been extremely unlucky, but this season should not have been this bad in spite of all the transition. The fact that so much of football in general this year is more direct makes me sympathise with Frank’s style to some extent. But I think the question for the decision makers has to be, is Frank able to get results consistently in the league, where he don’t have such a physical advantage like we do in Europe.
MrScottSpur
Ben Thatcher
But how many times do we excuse it before er yeh we go down. All talk talk talk. Spurs ain’t winning enough games what that 4 in 25 now?
SpurMeUp
Erik Thorstvedt
Btw how does Frank stop players movement.
If we score goals then do we have effective ‘patterns of play’? In the first minutes we were creating openings to score. Is that a pattern? If the finish isn’t there it’s not
I thought we dominated. So much so we forgot about defending. We didn’t have to do any first half - until their first effort on target. Was more Ange-ball than Frank-ball in some ways. We were so focused on how we’d get a goal against a side who sat back most of the game, we didn’t defend the most basic of attacks ourselves. It happens sometimes when teams are dominating, the defence isn’t set and no one seems to know what to do!
Butterly disappointing. The players are clearly giving their all still. And after playing midweek we did enough to win the game. Execution in defence and attack let us down. Ultimately it is on Frank. He’s not had much rub of the green despite all the effort. He only made one mistake for me today. Selection was good with the players available. But he should have introduced Tel and Muani around 60 mins. Not easy to play CL and to not feel fatigued after the hour mark. That was a mistake on Frank.
But goodness knows what he needs to do to get the attackers scoring. That we make opportunities 2.5 XG (and btw faff up a lot of other openings that don’t get to a shot) shows systems wise we’re doing ok. But the forwards are not quite there. I think it is down to us having developing forward players who lack coolness and precision in the final third.
If Alonso would take it - I’m sure the board would make the switch. Problem is, why would Alonso?
Robspur12
Steffen Iversen
Not really read the thread but just watched the highlights. I thought we played well today in an attacking sense; we were unlucky not to score more. Having Solanke back is making a difference already. But you get nothing when you defend like we did today. For both their goals Burnley overloaded our right side, where were the full backs?. For the second, Spence is ball watching while in front of him Burnley had created a 3 on 1 overload. Therein lies a problem for us atm, they created 2 clear chances and scored from both. We created numerous chances and only scored 2. A similar thing happened vs Sunderland at home. Fudge me we are frustrating to watch.
Robspur12
Steffen Iversen
Tel I agree. Muani basically adds nothing though.Btw how does Frank stop players movement.
If we score goals then do we have effective ‘patterns of play’? In the first minutes we were creating openings to score. Is that a pattern? If the finish isn’t there it’s not
I thought we dominated. So much so we forgot about defending. We didn’t have to do any first half - until their first effort on target. Was more Ange-ball than Frank-ball in some ways. We were so focused on how we’d get a goal against a side who sat back most of the game, we didn’t defend the most basic of attacks ourselves. It happens sometimes when teams are dominating, the defence isn’t set and no one seems to know what to do!
Butterly disappointing. The players are clearly giving their all still. And after playing midweek we did enough to win the game. Execution in defence and attack let us down. Ultimately it is on Frank. He’s not had much rub of the green despite all the effort. He only made one mistake for me today. Selection was good with the players available. But he should have introduced Tel and Muani around 60 mins. Not easy to play CL and to not feel fatigued after the hour mark. That was a mistake on Frank.
But goodness knows what he needs to do to get the attackers scoring. That we make opportunities 2.5 XG (and btw faff up a lot of other openings that don’t get to a shot) shows systems wise we’re doing ok. But the forwards are not quite there. I think it is down to us having developing forward players who lack coolness and precision in the final third.
If Alonso would take it - I’m sure the board would make the switch. Problem is, why would Alonso?
thfcsteff
Ralph Coates
Btw how does Frank stop players movement.
If we score goals then do we have effective ‘patterns of play’? In the first minutes we were creating openings to score. Is that a pattern? If the finish isn’t there it’s not
I thought we dominated. So much so we forgot about defending. We didn’t have to do any first half - until their first effort on target. Was more Ange-ball than Frank-ball in some ways. We were so focused on how we’d get a goal against a side who sat back most of the game, we didn’t defend the most basic of attacks ourselves. It happens sometimes when teams are dominating, the defence isn’t set and no one seems to know what to do!
Butterly disappointing. The players are clearly giving their all still. And after playing midweek we did enough to win the game. Execution in defence and attack let us down. Ultimately it is on Frank. He’s not had much rub of the green despite all the effort. He only made one mistake for me today. Selection was good with the players available. But he should have introduced Tel and Muani around 60 mins. Not easy to play CL and to not feel fatigued after the hour mark. That was a mistake on Frank.
But goodness knows what he needs to do to get the attackers scoring. That we make opportunities 2.5 XG (and btw faff up a lot of other openings that don’t get to a shot) shows systems wise we’re doing ok. But the forwards are not quite there. I think it is down to us having developing forward players who lack coolness and precision in the final third.
If Alonso would take it - I’m sure the board would make the switch. Problem is, why would Alonso?
In short, we created chances in the first 10 mins via our usual methods. When I'm talking about patterns of play, I'm talking about specific attacking movements involving triggers and movements. It looks to me like all those triggers/movements are designed to get the ball wide and to create crossing chances/force set-piece opportunities. When we do look to occasionally play through the middle, it looks to me like it is instinct not structure.
He was unlucky today with regards to their keeper playing well and woodwork. We should've won just on that. But I remain unshakable in my view that this style of football is untennable if you want to win things and entertain in the process.
thfcsteff
Ralph Coates
Out of interest did you see the whole game mate?
thfcsteff
Ralph Coates
A really interesting and balanced overview which hopefully sparks some good conversation. I'll dive in later.
SpurMeUp
Erik Thorstvedt
I think that’s too simplistic. He looked bad against wham. But he does offer things. Running with the ball, can finish, tracks back. Just needs to feel in the groove. He has that big guy nonchalant lolloping look that drives fans crazy. But he’s not lazy. And has talent if not confidence.
SteveAWOL
Tommy Harmer
Thought it’d be interesting to see what our points tallies have been at this stage of the season since the EPL was reduced to 20 teams and this is only the 2nd time in those 3 decades that we’ve had fewer than 30pts in consecutive seasons.
Hopefully our next manager will lift us up the table like Redknapp did after Ramos’ trophy proved to be another flash in the pan and our Transfer Committee have already identified the next Modric & Bale to get this team challenging for those CL spots again
Hopefully our next manager will lift us up the table like Redknapp did after Ramos’ trophy proved to be another flash in the pan and our Transfer Committee have already identified the next Modric & Bale to get this team challenging for those CL spots again
Robspur12
Steffen Iversen
No I didn’t watched highlights and listened live on the radio.
NaijaSpurs
Cecil Poynton
We cannot really play through the middle because we lack a progressive passer in the middle of the park. Gallagher is not a bad player but he is not the answer, and we still have the same problems which are obvious but alas, the powers that be appear oblivious.
SteveAWOL
Tommy Harmer
Yup, I just watched the entire match on Sky Sports’ Game of the Day and we should’ve won comfortably but for a couple of sloppy defensive errors and Dubravka having a good game plus our front line being as clinical with their finishing as Darren Bent!
Even if we could find a Defoe level striker (let alone another Kane or Son) that would elevate our lacklustre attack immensely.
HarryBreadbap
Paul Moran
I have been here before, it was 1977.
I was laughed at ridiculed, even to suggest that relegation was a possibility, it wasn't.
I think we need fifteen more points (12-15) to secure our PL status.
Look at our performances, and look at our remaining games, and then tell me we are safe.
We are not.
Vinai has no history with us, no feelings for Spurs and certainly has made a fortune from Woolwich, does any of us feel he is worried on the slightest?
Laugh at me just like those fans who sat around me at WHL over those last few months of 1977, but i feel it is now that serious.
I was laughed at ridiculed, even to suggest that relegation was a possibility, it wasn't.
I think we need fifteen more points (12-15) to secure our PL status.
Look at our performances, and look at our remaining games, and then tell me we are safe.
We are not.
Vinai has no history with us, no feelings for Spurs and certainly has made a fortune from Woolwich, does any of us feel he is worried on the slightest?
Laugh at me just like those fans who sat around me at WHL over those last few months of 1977, but i feel it is now that serious.
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
Hmm we had this same problem with Solanke last season. He very rarely had any shots on goal and was constantly feeding on scraps if you remember. It got to the point that people made the excuse that he was used as a pressing point rather than a focal attacking point.
Maybe we need to accept that either this squad isn't good at creating chances for him or he's not a potent threat?