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***OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Burnlio, Sat Jan 24th, 3pm***

Misplaced passes again, another formation in the PL, one player double-double out of position over a potential starter in that position, no pattern of play in attack beyond forcing pressure, looking wide and swinging in crosses. This is not new. It is the same old thing. Week in week out. I see consistent criticism of Xavi, but he is NOT a player for THIS sort of football. Too often he gets the ball, looks up, and EVERYTHING is either wide or trying to catch up. Yes, he could also do better, but we do NOT set up to offer any of our players the chance to be their best selves. None of them.

Solanke today. Great hold up play sometimes, pushed off the ball others, woeful miscontrol in the box, missed a chance he probably should've buried, yet WTF is he meant to do? He's feeding on dog-brick service from crosses and scraps; there is NO plan to weave him into attacking patterns.

Poor first goal to concede, however there is no excuse for how we started that second-half. And, indeed, how it unfolded. In a chaos match with Burnley? No control anywhere? No composure? That comes from the sidelines.

Our confidence is fragile, that leads to mistakes, that leads to not winning games, that leads to desperation and chaos ball, and thus the cycle continues.


I was repeatedly told we were in a relegation battle last season.
We are currently 13th on 28 points. 8 points above the drop zone.
Bournemouth (currently playing) and Palace could overtake us. Leeds could draw level.
Here are our next four fixtures:

Emirates Marketing Project - home
Man Utd - away
Newcash - home
Goons - home

We need to take this seriously.

p.s. again, let's not get into a debate about squad quality; it is not going to win the league ever, and if it got top 5 it would be supremely lucky in any season. But it is better than this, much better.
 
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billyiddo said:
Probably the plsyer on the pitch with the most errors
Click to expand...
Looking at the stats, most errors per game is Xavi. He is they guy that is expected to carry the ball and try risky passes. My issue with players losing possession is 8 of our top 10 players to lose possession are defensive players. Only attackers are Richy and Xavi. Defenders should be able to make simple passes between.

To put the issue with Xavi into context:
Saka 247 times possession lost - 20 starts - 1456 mins

Odegaard 126 - 12 starts -930 mins

Xavi 190 - 12 starts - 1104 mins

Cherki 225 -11 starts - 957mins

Tielemans 175 - 16 starts - 1224 mins

Rogers 345 - 22 starts - 1957 mins

Wirtz 237 - 17 starts - 1495 minutes

Xavi has crap options ahead of him yet he is comparable to other attackers in the league who are apparently better drilled than us, and have better players.

I don't think it shows anything useful other than I expect our playmakers to lose the ball more. Now people need to look at the options ahead of him. It's not great
 
parj said:
Looking at the stats, most errors per game is Xavi. He is they guy that is expected to carry the ball and try risky passes. My issue with players losing possession is 8 of our top 10 players to lose possession are defensive players. Only attackers are Richy and Xavi. Defenders should be able to make simple passes between.

To put the issue with Xavi into context:
Saka 247 times possession lost - 20 starts - 1456 mins

Odegaard 126 - 12 starts -930 mins

Xavi 190 - 12 starts - 1104 mins

Cherki 225 -11 starts - 957mins

Tielemans 175 - 16 starts - 1224 mins

Rogers 345 - 22 starts - 1957 mins

Wirtz 237 - 17 starts - 1495 minutes

Xavi has crap options ahead of him yet he is comparable to other attackers in the league who are apparently better drilled than us, and have better players.

I don't think it shows anything useful other than I expect our playmakers to lose the ball more. Now people need to look at the options ahead of him. It's not great
Click to expand...

Exactly! Great post.

We have no patterns beyond going wide and/or 'Harlem Globetrotter magic it up' stuff.
 
parj said:
Looking at the stats, most errors per game is Xavi. He is they guy that is expected to carry the ball and try risky passes. My issue with players losing possession is 8 of our top 10 players to lose possession are defensive players. Only attackers are Richy and Xavi. Defenders should be able to make simple passes between.

To put the issue with Xavi into context:
Saka 247 times possession lost - 20 starts - 1456 mins

Odegaard 126 - 12 starts -930 mins

Xavi 190 - 12 starts - 1104 mins

Cherki 225 -11 starts - 957mins

Tielemans 175 - 16 starts - 1224 mins

Rogers 345 - 22 starts - 1957 mins

Wirtz 237 - 17 starts - 1495 minutes

Xavi has crap options ahead of him yet he is comparable to other attackers in the league who are apparently better drilled than us, and have better players.

I don't think it shows anything useful other than I expect our playmakers to lose the ball more. Now people need to look at the options ahead of him. It's not great
Click to expand...

I don't watch those players enough to comment on their games or their numbers.

An often used defense of Xavi is that he doesn't have the players making the required movement in front of him, so it follows that he doesn't have the opportunity to play the type of risky pass you are refering to, these types of passes tend to not be complained about anyway, unless they are under/over hit - I'd wager, based on the eye test that the majority of his losses of possession would be basic passes that are just bad on the players part and taking too long when recieving a pass.
 
thfcsteff said:
...

I was repeatedly told we were in a relegation battle last season.
We are currently 13th on 28 points. 8 points above the drop zone.
Bournemouth (currently playing) and Palace could overtake us. Leeds could draw level.
Here are our next four fixtures:

Emirates Marketing Project - home
Man Utd - away
Newcash - home
Goons - home

We need to take this seriously.

p.s. again, let's not get into a debate about squad quality; it is not going to win the league ever, and if it got top 5 it would be supremely lucky in any season. But it is better than this, much better.
Click to expand...

At this point last season we were in 16th place with 24 points from 23 games, so at least we're 4 points better off than a year ago 😅

Maybe by this point next January we'll actually have van de Ven + Romero and Kulusevski + Maddison available at the same time 🙏

20260124_180328(1).jpg
 
billyiddo said:
I don't watch those players enough to comment on their games or their numbers.

An often used defense of Xavi is that he doesn't have the players making the required movement in front of him, so it follows that he doesn't have the opportunity to play the type of risky pass you are refering to, these types of passes tend to not be complained about anyway, unless they are under/over hit - I'd wager, based on the eye test that the majority of his losses of possession would be basic passes that are just bad on the players part and taking too long when recieving a pass.
Click to expand...

...because when he looks up, the movement and options around him are largely static. I am sure he can be better, but we do not play in a way which sets him up to be the best player he can be (or any player of his type).
 
I'm not even looking at who, what position, the opposition is at the moment. I just want to see us trying to be aggressive and try compete with and attacking mindset.

Not that boring, pragmatic, defensive, zhit that I've had to watch so far this season.

So the last two matches have been better, will be interesting to see what approach we take in the next 5 games?

That's why I always decided to give Ang a break, compared to others, as at least his teams looked to attack the opposition. I never ever wanted us to go back to the Mourinio and Conte approach, unfortunately with Frank we did.
So I'll credit him for changing that over the last two games...I just hope after today's result he doesn't go back trying to be pragmatic again. Otherwise it's going to be really painful watching us watching the opposition camped outside our box for 90 minutes.

We just need to be brave and think, these are 'free-hit' matches which no one expects us to win, let's just go for it....we zhit anyway...
 
billyiddo said:
I don't watch those players enough to comment on their games or their numbers.

An often used defense of Xavi is that he doesn't have the players making the required movement in front of him, so it follows that he doesn't have the opportunity to play the type of risky pass you are refering to, these types of passes tend to not be complained about anyway, unless they are under/over hit - I'd wager, based on the eye test that the majority of his losses of possession would be basic passes that are just bad on the players part and taking too long when recieving a pass.
Click to expand...
But he isn't alone in that. We have 8 defensive players in our top 10 most errors made. Is that a problem?
 
thfcsteff said:
...because when he looks up, the movement and options around him are largely static. I am sure he can be better, but we do not play in a way which sets him up to be the best player he can be (or any player of his type).
Click to expand...

If he's waiting till he's received the ball before looking for his options then it's a bigger problem than I feared.
 
billyiddo said:
Er yes?
Click to expand...
So why focus just on him? It's a team issue. Our passing options are poor, at times execution of the basics isn't good enough. But when the team knows what they are doing the are less errors.
If you said his shooting is shocking, I would agree with you. That's him. But I think his errors is a team issue. They all do it, yet against Dortmund they were fine. They had a clear plan then in the first half and it showed
 
parj said:
So why focus just on him? It's a team issue. Our passing options are poor, at times execution of the basics isn't good enough. But when the team knows what they are doing the are less errors.
If you said his shooting is shocking, I would agree with you. That's him. But I think his errors is a team issue. They all do it, yet against Dortmund they were fine. They had a clear plan then in the first half and it showed
Click to expand...

I don't think i am focusing on him?

I've criticised him, people are defending him and so a discussion has broken out.
 
billyiddo said:
If he's waiting till he's received the ball before looking for his options then it's a bigger problem than I feared.
Click to expand...
I agree there are several issues at play here. I go back to the summer and the fact that Frank actually did not seem to want this type of player until late in the window when options were narrowing. I genuinely believe he'd rather have a fit Bentancur or Pahlinha and Gallagher. I don't see Xavi ever prospering under Frank/Frank's 'way'.
 
totalspurs said:
I'm not even looking at who, what position, the opposition is at the moment. I just want to see us trying to be aggressive and try compete with and attacking mindset.

Not that boring, pragmatic, defensive, zhit that I've had to watch so far this season.

So the last two matches have been better, will be interesting to see what approach we take in the next 5 games?

That's why I always decided to give Ang a break, compared to others, as at least his teams looked to attack the opposition. I never ever wanted us to go back to the Mourinio and Conte approach, unfortunately with Frank we did.
So I'll credit him for changing that over the last two games...I just hope after today's result he doesn't go back trying to be pragmatic again. Otherwise it's going to be really painful watching us watching the opposition camped outside our box for 90 minutes.

We just need to be brave and think, these are 'free-hit' matches which no one expects us to win, let's just go for it....we zhit anyway...
Click to expand...
Exactly this. Forget formations - I thought we had an opportunity to build on what Spence did against Dortmund- the intent against Dortmund and today was there to be seen. My concern is what happens when he gets players back. Will he go back to boring pragmatic again?
 
thfcsteff said:
Misplaced passes again, another formation in the PL, one player double-double out of position over a potential starter in that position, no pattern of play in attack beyond forcing pressure, looking wide and swinging in crosses. This is not new. It is the same old thing. Week in week out. I see consistent criticism of Xavi, but he is NOT a player for THIS sort of football. Too often he gets the ball, looks up, and EVERYTHING is either wide or trying to catch up. Yes, he could also do better, but we do NOT set up to offer any of our players the chance to be their best selves. None of them.

Solanke today. Great hold up play sometimes, pushed off the ball others, woeful miscontrol in the box, missed a chance he probably should've buried, yet WTF is he meant to do? He's feeding on dog-brick service from crosses and scraps; there is NO plan to weave him into attacking patterns.

Poor first goal to concede, however there is no excuse for how we started that second-half. And, indeed, how it unfolded. In a chaos match with Burnley? No control anywhere? No composure? That comes from the sidelines.

Our confidence is fragile, that leads to mistakes, that leads to not winning games, that leads to desperation and chaos ball, and thus the cycle continues.


I was repeatedly told we were in a relegation battle last season.
We are currently 13th on 28 points. 8 points above the drop zone.
Bournemouth (currently playing) and Palace could overtake us. Leeds could draw level.
Here are our next four fixtures:

Emirates Marketing Project - home
Man Utd - away
Newcash - home
Goons - home

We need to take this seriously.

p.s. again, let's not get into a debate about squad quality; it is not going to win the league ever, and if it got top 5 it would be supremely lucky in any season. But it is better than this, much better.
Click to expand...
Spot on.
 
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