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OMT: Manure vs Mighty Spurs

BrainOfLevy said:
I think the reason it’s always so disappointing to lose to this rabble is because we always seem to play them when they are on the ropes, and we always seem to gift them the game. For almost all other teams, we’ve shaking that tag of being the ‘good team to play to get your form back’ off, but United under Mourinho for some reason we just haven’t done so yet when it matters.

I’m confident though. We are better. We are a club more comfortable with itself, more at one with its strategy. We have a player they want and really need in Toby, and we have class and depth all over the pitch with only Son being the biggest miss.

I think Mourinho’s motivational tactic of treating players like children to elicit some higher level of performance is wearing thin with increasing regularity, and he hasn’t got the players who would live up to his high demands. On the other hand, we’ve got Poch in to his 5th season with players experienced in themselves and experienced in our system and ethos, and I get the sense Poch now wants to push them hard, because there are no excuses. With that in mind, I see us winning.
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Interesting points.
However, can i ask you: what makes you more confident of a win in this trip to Old Trafford that the last two under Mourinho?
In those times they were also going into the games under more of a cloud than we were, so what makes this trip different to those last two?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Interesting points.
However, can i ask you: what makes you more confident of a win in this trip to Old Trafford that the last two under Mourinho?
In those times they were also going into the games under more of a cloud than we were, so what makes this trip different to those last two?
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I think it’s that in previous seasons, you can tell Poch has tried to motivate the players by keeping the pressure off. Eg they are young, still developing so you can’t expect too much. Or we’re moving stadiums so it’s going to be a tough period. Or it would be nice to win a trophy, but we’re in a long term project so you have to judge our success differently. But this year, I think he feels that the team is experienced, and can handle the pressure if he applies it, because they are almost there themselves. They want to be pushed in this way now. They don’t want excuses. Even last year, I don’t think we were quite there. You can tell the players wanted to win that semi final dearly, but I didn’t get the sense we believed it was our time.

I think by a quirk of this transfer window meaning we’ve kept some experienced players like Rose, Dembele and Toby, I think he’s decided this is the year we push for something. And I think the squad is generally experienced into our methods that they can all carry out any plan effectively.

Side note: I’d love to know how Poch thinks about psychology and motivation. There’s a definite sense of giving players enough rope to hang them selves, almost like he lets them experience things before then telling them what should happen, so it is internal to them. Obvious example being when he first joined. But also the Wembley adjustment last year. He started off saying it would be very difficult, and when it turned out to be true, he applied the pressure saying we couldn’t feel sorry for ourselves and then the form improved. But I wonder if he had gone straight to applying the pressure, would he have kept the players onside and got the same results....

Similarly I think this year, the squad has had enough of the idea that they are young and can’t be expected to win. I think they have arrived in a place where it’s internal to them. They now believe it. I think - and hope - we will win something this year because of that, but it may be the end of the line for a fair few of these players at Spurs after this season. We may then enter another period of building players’ internal drive back up but if we manage it effectively hopefully we can sustain a high level.

So short answer to your question: the vibe coming out of the squad is that this is the year. No excuses. No feeling sorry for ourselves. We are going to do something. I didn’t get that vibe last year and I feel like we are ready to take advantage of a poor United side.
 
Well I like Pogba, and Lindgard.

Just struggling to recall who else plays for them these days - which is annoying given their Superiority last year!

Did Carrick retire and is Valencia still there?
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I think it’s that in previous seasons, you can tell Poch has tried to motivate the players by keeping the pressure off. Eg they are young, still developing so you can’t expect too much. Or we’re moving stadiums so it’s going to be a tough period. Or it would be nice to win a trophy, but we’re in a long term project so you have to judge our success differently. But this year, I think he feels that the team is experienced, and can handle the pressure if he applies it, because they are almost there themselves. They want to be pushed in this way now. They don’t want excuses. Even last year, I don’t think we were quite there. You can tell the players wanted to win that semi final dearly, but I didn’t get the sense we believed it was our time.

I think by a quirk of this transfer window meaning we’ve kept some experienced players like Rose, Dembele and Toby, I think he’s decided this is the year we push for something. And I think the squad is generally experienced into our methods that they can all carry out any plan effectively.

Side note: I’d love to know how Poch thinks about psychology and motivation. There’s a definite sense of giving players enough rope to hang them selves, almost like he lets them experience things before then telling them what should happen, so it is internal to them. Obvious example being when he first joined. But also the Wembley adjustment last year. He started off saying it would be very difficult, and when it turned out to be true, he applied the pressure saying we couldn’t feel sorry for ourselves and then the form improved. But I wonder if he had gone straight to applying the pressure, would he have kept the players onside and got the same results....

Similarly I think this year, the squad has had enough of the idea that they are young and can’t be expected to win. I think they have arrived in a place where it’s internal to them. They now believe it. I think - and hope - we will win something this year because of that, but it may be the end of the line for a fair few of these players at Spurs after this season. We may then enter another period of building players’ internal drive back up but if we manage it effectively hopefully we can sustain a high level.

So short answer to your question: the vibe coming out of the squad is that this is the year. No excuses. No feeling sorry for ourselves. We are going to do something. I didn’t get that vibe last year and I feel like we are ready to take advantage of a poor United side.
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I would also say...something just doesn’t feel
right in the United camp this time. I mean, was it January that Woodward offered him a contract extension? A bizarre enough decision at the time, but even more so now when you’ve considered the summer they’ve had. Mourinho and the board do not seem aligned on transfer targets. And I think it means that Mourinho’s way of motivating the players he does have just isn’t going to work in the same way. Perhaps before, when he appears to be being backed, the Sanchez signing etc, it looks like they are behind him. But there is so much weirdness. The Pogba situation. The fact that he has got 2 £30M centre backs signed and yet needs another one for the team to work. The fact that Sanchez was paid a kings ransom so that he wouldn’t go to City but has been an absolute bust. The fact that a top world prospect like Martial is going to walk for free rather than spend any longer than necessary under Jose. The fact they still don’t have a right winger.

I really, really hope considering all this that we beat them. They have some quality sure, but so do we. And we are just much more aligned, right across the club. I believe the players are there mentally now, ready to take advantage of a club that isn’t pulling in the same directions.

I think there will be seasons to come where we have to be in something of a rebuilding process. Perhaps we have young players like Sanchez was last year needing some time to settle in. But this is a year we should really be ready to hit these games hard. Every player who will start is going to be settled and ready. COYMFS
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I would also say...something just doesn’t feel
right in the United camp this time. I mean, was it January that Woodward offered him a contract extension? A bizarre enough decision at the time, but even more so now when you’ve considered the summer they’ve had. Mourinho and the board do not seem aligned on transfer targets. And I think it means that Mourinho’s way of motivating the players he does have just isn’t going to work in the same way. Perhaps before, when he appears to be being backed, the Sanchez signing etc, it looks like they are behind him. But there is so much weirdness. The Pogba situation. The fact that he has got 2 £30M centre backs signed and yet needs another one for the team to work. The fact that Sanchez was paid a kings ransom so that he wouldn’t go to City but has been an absolute bust. The fact that a top world prospect like Martial is going to walk for free rather than spend any longer than necessary under Jose. The fact they still don’t have a right winger.

I really, really hope considering all this that we beat them. They have some quality sure, but so do we. And we are just much more aligned, right across the club. I believe the players are there mentally now, ready to take advantage of a club that isn’t pulling in the same directions.

I think there will be seasons to come where we have to be in something of a rebuilding process. Perhaps we have young players like Sanchez was last year needing some time to settle in. But this is a year we should really be ready to hit these games hard. Every player who will start is going to be settled and ready. COYMFS
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Well said and bang on the money with that last paragraph. Sums it all up perfectly for what Spurs are about this season.
 
----------------Lloris--------------
--Toby------Sanchez-----Verts--
-Trippier Dier Winks Davies-
--------Eriksen------Alli----------
----------------Kane--------------

Predicting a 1-0 win to Spurs with Poch parking our Dembele shape bus in the second half and giving Lamela/Moura run out with about 20 mins to go.
 
awesome dawson said:
----------------Lloris--------------
--Toby------Sanchez-----Verts--
-Trippier Dier Winks Davies-
--------Eriksen------Alli----------
----------------Kane--------------

Predicting a 1-0 win to Spurs with Poch parking our Dembele shape bus in the second half and giving Lamela/Moura run out with about 20 mins to go.
Click to expand...
Might be a big leap of faith to start Winks but if you can only play Dembele for a half do you start him to try and control the early part of the game or the second half - I’m beginning to think the latter as we do sometimes allow teams back into games when we’ve outplayed them. The only thing Utd have over us is the mentality to spoil a game to get what they want, once we overcome that we should be a lot better than them footballing wise. The defeat against them in the cup and Juve was frustrating by the last step this young team needs to overcome to win a pot.
 
MKSpur said:
Might be a big leap of faith to start Winks but if you can only play Dembele for a half do you start him to try and control the early part of the game or the second half - I’m beginning to think the latter as we do sometimes allow teams back into games when we’ve outplayed them. The only thing Utd have over us is the meteorology to spoil a game to get what they want, once we overcome that we should be a lot better than them footballing wise. The defeat against them in the cup and Juve was frustrating by the last step this young team needs to overcome to win a pot.
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That was my reason, Dembele coming on with 30 mins left looks the way to go. Sometimes when he starts he can let the game pass him by. Can't see Winks lasting more than an hour either. Maybe give them a half each but that doesn't seem very 'Poch'.
 
Perhaps it also has to do with the players' motivations. I am sure Jose M doesn't have to motivate the team to play well against the likes of City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs compared to Huddersfield, Brighton, Fulham etc. The team doesnt want to lose to perceived rivals.
 
Saying that Utd are there for the taking is not the same as saying we will beat them, but they are there for the taking.

They will play like the away team, which means our success depends on us breaking them down.

If we can get the first goal I think we'll win, they will be forced to coming out and chasing it more which will in turn open them up and expose their shaky defence.

The longer its 0-0, the more it suits them, classic Mourinho.
 
awesome dawson said:
That was my reason, Dembele coming on with 30 mins left looks the way to go. Sometimes when he starts he can let the game pass him by. Can't see Winks lasting more than an hour either. Maybe give them a half each but that doesn't seem very 'Poch'.
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Maybe Eriksen deeper and Moura attacking mid?
 
This is a statement game for us.We didn't get too many away points against the other top 5,with utd in disarray we need to win.We need to banish the narrative that we aren't quite there for the bigger games and this would be a start.Will be disappointed if we don't get at least a point.
 
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