Yves Bissouma

[Kandi1977]

It's hilarious, can you imagine if a Forest player had done that challenge on Bissouma? Of course the same posters claiming it to barely be a foul would be saying the same thing then wouldn't they....

Yes I would, because it was barely anything in it. It just isn't a bad foul in any stretch of imagination. It's a foul, and the ref got it spot on the first time.

 

[glasgowspur]

For the posters trying to defend the challenge, I don't even know where to begin.......To suggest it's a mistake / bad intervention from VAR, like what the actual fudge haha. If that were to be acceptable in football it'd be entering some blood bowl / MMA level of brutality.

I don't think Biss was out to hurt him as it happened so quickly but intent isn't what matters, it was reckless and clumsy, much like the touch that came before. It's the classic trying to hard to rectify an error but just ending up compounding the mistake with a bigger one.

No doubt some may say it looks worse slower or as a screenshot, well it also looked atrocious in real time too, because it was.

Did Ange make any comments about Yyves in the presser or just generally about discipline? Didn't see anything quoted on the beeb summery of the game.

All those people whinging that it was not a red card are the same people who we bitching if Yates committed that foul on Maddison.and got away with it.

As I said just after the game I don't have a problem with the card in general, the problem I have is that in the context of the cards not given when fouls are committed against us then I think it's a harsh red.
The ref sets the tone of the game, his decisions to book or not book players leads should be consistent. The Udogie booking for instance was an absolute joke, not just taken in isolation but in comparison to the fouls he had let go, almost all against us.
Maddison is out because of repeated fouls, many of them unpunished, despite what the card count says we are not a dirty team.

 

[spurspinter1]

As I said just after the game I don't have a problem with the card in general, the problem I have is that in the context of the cards not given when fouls are committed against us then I think it's a harsh red.
The ref sets the tone of the game, his decisions to book or not book players leads should be consistent. The Udogie booking for instance was an absolute joke, not just taken in isolation but in comparison to the fouls he had let go, almost all against us.
Maddison is out because of repeated fouls, many of them unpunished, despite what the card count says we are not a dirty team.

I would say however you look at it the Udogie yellow seemed harsh, iirc it was shoulder to shoulder and was just use of strength.

The thing with Maddison is you don't get yellow cards for multiple players committing niggly fouls on one player, I don't know if there's a way to get a more appropriate punishment for that tactic of shutting down one particular player. It's the style of play of dribblers like Maddison or Grealish, they're always going to get targeted because they hold on to the ball and tempt defenders in to challenges....

This absolutely isn't aimed at you but there's a lack of clarity in those that are crying about Forest allegedly kicking us off the pitch when we had Bissouma putting in a challenge like he did, nothing they did came close but Murillo's would be the nearest but it given as a booking as it should be. Imo the main thing the ref missed was booking Yates for waving an imaginary card as that was clear cut, imo VAR should be able to intervene for yellow cards like that or for diving etc It's that kind of behavior there should be more of a deterrent for.

It's an opinion game it's fine to disagree and terms like excessive force / reckless are subjective but I don't know if you're on the wind up @Kandi1977. If that type of challenge was okay the decent teams would barely be able to field a fit XI as they would have been crippled by the various teams of cloggers in the league after the first couple of fixtures of the season

 

[Gutter Boy]

It's above the shinpad on the side of the knee. Bissouma's boot bends back as his studs hit his opponent.

But the ball was bouncing and his motion was down, not out. Thats the context you lose from slo mo and freeze frame

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But the ball was bouncing and his motion was down, not out. Thats the context you lose from slo mo and freeze frame

I agree slo mo is toxic as the game is played at pace
But his foot was high regardless of slow mo
It’s a red
It was stupid
It came because he poorly controlled a simple pass from Davies
It was on him

 

[parklane1]

Very much agree with this. Red card? Never. Another VAR gone wrong in the league of VARong decisions.

Its the same every game.

 

[johnola]

Underneath the whimsical ads PP is just a money making juggernaut conning it’s customers like all the others!

And trying to appeal to teenagers. Horrible company.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

As I said just after the game I don't have a problem with the card in general, the problem I have is that in the context of the cards not given when fouls are committed against us then I think it's a harsh red.
The ref sets the tone of the game, his decisions to book or not book players leads should be consistent. The Udogie booking for instance was an absolute joke, not just taken in isolation but in comparison to the fouls he had let go, almost all against us.
Maddison is out because of repeated fouls, many of them unpunished, despite what the card count says we are not a dirty team.

I agree with you in relation to both Udogie and Maddison but neither are relevant to the deserved red card for Bissouma.

Seven yellow cards and 2 red in 16 matches is just shambolic.

 

[Baleforce]

But the ball was bouncing and his motion was down, not out. Thats the context you lose from slo mo and freeze frame

It doesn’t matter where the ball is. His foot was stupidly high. Wait for it to drop or use your thigh.

He’s studded him at knee height, inexcusable irrespective of the context, a players primary responsibility is not to hurt anyone.

 

[glasgowspur]

I would say however you look at it the Udogie yellow seemed harsh, iirc it was shoulder to shoulder and was just use of strength.

The thing with Maddison is you don't get yellow cards for multiple players committing niggly fouls on one player, I don't know if there's a way to get a more appropriate punishment for that tactic of shutting down one particular player. It's the style of play of dribblers like Maddison or Grealish, they're always going to get targeted because they hold on to the ball and tempt defenders in to challenges....

This absolutely isn't aimed at you but there's a lack of clarity in those that are crying about Forest allegedly kicking us off the pitch when we had Bissouma putting in a challenge like he did, nothing they did came close but Murillo's would be the nearest but it given as a booking as it should be. Imo the main thing the ref missed was booking Yates for waving an imaginary card as that was clear cut, imo VAR should be able to intervene for yellow cards like that or for diving etc It's that kind of behavior there should be more of a deterrent for.

It's an opinion game it's fine to disagree and terms like excessive force / reckless are subjective but I don't know if you're on the wind up @Kandi1977. If that type of challenge was okay the decent teams would barely be able to field a fit XI as they would have been crippled by the various teams of cloggers in the league after the first couple of fixtures of the season

I'm not about to fall out with anyone, so don't worry about that.

I agree with you in relation to both Udogie and Maddison but neither are relevant to the deserved red card for Bissouma.

Seven yellow cards and 2 red in 16 matches is just shambolic.

They are relevant when the rules are not being applied evenly.
If Bissouma is a red card (which I think it is) there is no way a forrest player can get to 70 odd mins without a card.
If Udogie issue a card then there is no way the tackle on Bentancur is not a card.
The rules don't change from game to game.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm not about to fall out with anyone, so don't worry about that.


They are relevant when the rules are not being applied evenly.
If Bissouma is a red card (which I think it is) there is no way a forrest player can get to 70 odd mins without a card.
If Udogie issue a card then there is no way the tackle on Bentancur is not a card.
The rules don't change from game to game.

The tackle on bentacur was given as a yellow card

 

[glasgowspur]

I would say however you look at it the Udogie yellow seemed harsh, iirc it was shoulder to shoulder and was just use of strength.

The thing with Maddison is you don't get yellow cards for multiple players committing niggly fouls on one player, I don't know if there's a way to get a more appropriate punishment for that tactic of shutting down one particular player. It's the style of play of dribblers like Maddison or Grealish, they're always going to get targeted because they hold on to the ball and tempt defenders in to challenges....

This absolutely isn't aimed at you but there's a lack of clarity in those that are crying about Forest allegedly kicking us off the pitch when we had Bissouma putting in a challenge like he did, nothing they did came close but Murillo's would be the nearest but it given as a booking as it should be. Imo the main thing the ref missed was booking Yates for waving an imaginary card as that was clear cut, imo VAR should be able to intervene for yellow cards like that or for diving etc It's that kind of behavior there should be more of a deterrent for.

It's an opinion game it's fine to disagree and terms like excessive force / reckless are subjective but I don't know if you're on the wind up @Kandi1977. If that type of challenge was okay the decent teams would barely be able to field a fit XI as they would have been crippled by the various teams of cloggers in the league after the first couple of fixtures of the season

I'm not about to fall out with anyone, so don't worry about that.
As you say opinions.

 

[glasgowspur]

The tackle on bentacur was given as a yellow card

I stand corrected

 

[spurspinter1]

I'm not about to fall out with anyone, so don't worry about that.
As you say opinions.

Okay...? I don't remember disagreeing with anything you said mate I'm not worried Well I am worried that anyone could seriously see that Biss challenge at literally any speed forwards or backwards and not think it's a red but fortunately the people who matter is the refs think it is. Until there's some kind of mortal Kombat version of football where gbh is encouraged it will remain that way.

Back to Yyves I do wonder what he's thinking or how the interactions with team mates and Ange has been. I've said before there's no point laying in to him but these moments of letting the team down are becoming a habit as well as sliding back to what are realistically mediocre performances by his standards..

 

[Bullet]

I don't know if you're on the wind up @Kandi1977. If that type of challenge was okay the decent teams would barely be able to field a fit XI as they would have been crippled

IIRC @Kandi1977 is a referee, which explains a lot. If not, I'll get my orthopaedic shoes

 

[Kandi1977]

IIRC @Kandi1977 is a referee, which explains a lot. If not, I'll get my orthopaedic shoes

You are correct. And I really disagree with the direction football is taking. I'm all for protecting players and punishing dangerous play, but then they have to deal with what is actually dangerous, and not petty fouls.
Scissor tackles from behind, where there's absolutely no chance to get the ball, most often get punish with only a yellow. Same punishment as shoulder barge that hits slightly on the back instead of the shoulder. It's ridiculous. And there are countless other situations. Yellows are handed out for very cheap fouls, but some really dangerous tackles are not, and players turning around and hitting a player when they put their foot down (Rashford), are sent off! It's utterly ridiculous.

 

[braineclipse]

Udogie was a yellow because of the situation, not the nature of the foul. I'm not convinced it was even a foul, but at the point where it's a foul it's one that stops a dangerous situation and the card is warranted.

The inconsistency of the refereeing is really frustrating. But it's also no excuse for Bissouma who did an unnecessary dangerous foul and we'll now have to make do without him again.

Was a classic red card situation. Loose touch, trying to make up for it. Those happen, but with his experience we should perhaps expect better.

 

[Raziel]

Udogie was a yellow because of the situation, not the nature of the foul. I'm not convinced it was even a foul, but at the point where it's a foul it's one that stops a dangerous situation and the card is warranted.

The inconsistency of the refereeing is really frustrating. But it's also no excuse for Bissouma who did an unnecessary dangerous foul and we'll now have to make do without him again.

Was a classic red card situation. Loose touch, trying to make up for it. Those happen, but with his experience we should perhaps expect better.

It's the inconsistency that is the problem, a lot of Spurs fans will feel rightly frustrated that Yates ended that game on the field, that Forest got 2 cards (both very late in game) when clearly it was like watching us play a lower league side and they were out of control for a lot of their tackles (the two fouls on Son set the tone in first 5-10 mins of match)

For me, Udogie's foul has happened plenty of times this week-end and not even got called as foul

Re Bissouma's foul, it is a soft red, he's an idiot for giving the ref the choice, so can't complain. For the people who are looking at the still above, you need to watch the video, he went for a bouncing ball, and that impact glances off, he does not catch the player flush, again in a world with consistency and common sense, would it be a red? (Nketiah on Vicario comes to mind), what our players need to understand is we don't have the "protection" of being Liverpool, City or Arsenal, so don't be stupid.

 

[braineclipse]

It's the inconsistency that is the problem, a lot of Spurs fans will feel rightly frustrated that Yates ended that game on the field, that Forest got 2 cards (both very late in game) when clearly it was like watching us play a lower league side and they were out of control for a lot of their tackles (the two fouls on Son set the tone in first 5-10 mins of match)

For me, Udogie's foul has happened plenty of times this week-end and not even got called as foul

Re Bissouma's foul, it is a soft red, he's an idiot for giving the ref the choice, so can't complain. For the people who are looking at the still above, you need to watch the video, he went for a bouncing ball, and that impact glances off, he does not catch the player flush, again in a world with consistency and common sense, would it be a red? (Nketiah on Vicario comes to mind), what our players need to understand is we don't have the "protection" of being Liverpool, City or Arsenal, so don't be stupid.

Yates should have been booked. Their defender should have seen a second yellow. The Bissouma was on the softer side of red, but it's fair to give as a red imo.

But Romero could have been sent off (again) the other week. We get away with things too. Need to be smarter, more in control. Refs will continue to frustrate, but keep cool and control what can be controlled.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yates should have been booked. Their defender should have seen a second yellow. The Bissouma was on the softer side of red, but it's fair to give as a red imo.

But Romero could have been sent off (again) the other week. We get away with things too. Need to be smarter, more in control. Refs will continue to frustrate, but keep cool and control what can be controlled.

The reckless challenges we make have mainly come from poor initial ball control and reading of a players position
That can be coached but is also something the players should pick up