Where did this all begin - are we to blame?

[Gutter Boy]

To me it began with Redknapp's appointment. At the time he was both an unpopular figure and a signal of reduction (any port in a storm was the tag at the time).

He may have won some round over time, but I don't think we've ever been close to united around a manager since.

I do think Poch will get there actually - principally because he's an excellent coach, a bit of an intellectual and a #decentbloke, which kind of ticks everyone's box.

 

[Modric THFC]

Your 'if' being "if our home support really is that ****", right?
If so, I can think of one quite obvious fix that does not involve buying a new set of (presumably deaf) players.

Good luck getting rid of a a few thousand season ticket holders.

The atmosphere is gonna keep reducing the further we drift from the time of terraces.
Tbh its reflective of the predictions in omt. If people expect us to win comfortably then the atmosphere will be expectant of that.

 

[Yiddo]

We have some of the worst fans in the country and we have adopted them since the champions league campaign.

 

[Modric THFC]

To me it began with Redknapp's appointment. At the time he was both an unpopular figure and a signal of reduction (any port in a storm was the tag at the time).

He may have won some round at the time, but I don't think we've ever been close to united around a manager since.

I don't think Poch will get there actually - principally because he's an excellent coach, a bit of an intellectual and a #decentbloke, which kind of ticks everyone's box.

No we just became a consistently good enough team that people expected up to win most games at home. Compare the atmosphere at whl if we were playing Norwich to if we were playing Liverpool. They same people are at the game but suddenly there is an atmosphere. Its all down to people expecting us to win against the like of Norwich and sit there frustrated at 0-0.

 

[Modric THFC]

We have some of the worst fans in the country and we have adopted them since the champions league campaign.

How did they get season tickets?
Come on the vast majority of whl are the same people just older and jaded.

 

[scaramanga]

To me it began with Redknapp's appointment. At the time he was both an unpopular figure and a signal of reduction (any port in a storm was the tag at the time).

He may have won some round at the time, but I don't think we've ever been close to united around a manager since.

I don't think Poch will get there actually - principally because he's an excellent coach, a bit of an intellectual and a #decentbloke, which kind of ticks everyone's box.

That's about right, I'd say.

The other major issue is playing on Sundays. Nobody can drink properly on a Sunday - we're not West Ham, we've all got jobs to go to.

Ditch the ITV4 cup and get some Saturday afternoon atmospheres going.

 

[Finney Is Back]

To me it began with Redknapp's appointment. At the time he was both an unpopular figure and a signal of reduction (any port in a storm was the tag at the time).

He may have won some round at the time, but I don't think we've ever been close to united around a manager since.

I don't think Poch will get there actually - principally because he's an excellent coach, a bit of an intellectual and a #decentbloke, which kind of ticks everyone's box.

I completely disagree. While Redknapp may have divided the fans on the message boards (not foreign and sexy enough for the armchair fans I guess?) from where I was sitting at WHL the fans seemed to be united and completely behind him. The atmosphere under Redknapp was extremely good for the most part - probably because our gameplan typically involved bursting out of the blocks and being all over the opposition, trying to beat them through good, attacking football and not by playing a cagey game and looking to tactically outsmart them.

If we'd had a right old go at WBA yesterday, played at a high pace, swarmed all over them, created chances and then been done with a sucker punch then I think the team would've still got applauded off. The problem was that in a reasonably cagey game the (low ranking) opposition were the better team both off and on the ball.

I hope Pochettino gets there, but unless we see more urgency in our play I can't see our paying fans giving him the time.

 

[scaramanga]

I completely disagree. While Redknapp may have divided the fans on the message boards (not foreign and sexy enough for the armchair fans I guess?) from where I was sitting at WHL the fans seemed to be united and completely behind him. The atmosphere under Redknapp was extremely good for the most part - probably because our gameplan typically involved bursting out of the blocks and being all over the opposition, trying to beat them through good, attacking football and not by playing a cagey game and looking to tactically outsmart them.

If we'd had a right old go at WBA yesterday, played at a high pace, swarmed all over them, created chances and then been done with a sucker punch then I think the team would've still got applauded off. The problem was that in a reasonably cagey game the (low ranking) opposition were the better team both off and on the ball.

I hope Pochettino gets there, but unless we see more urgency in our play I can't see our paying fans giving him the time.

Is that really a failure of the manager if that happens?

I'd say that the blame is squarely at the feet of the fans who can't/won't understand football that involves the engagement of a brain in that situation.

 

[jimmyb]

I've thought for many years that our home fans are awful for the most part, and about a couple of years, after regularly having 'heated debates' about the lack of passion of those seate around me, I decided to give up going. I'm a child of the teraces, I'm used to souting and singing, not sitting there moaning, analysing, 'concentrating on the game'.

If I want to analyse and do amateur it's cheaper and more instuctive to do it at home. To me a fan at the game has one prime duty to give the team encouragement and discourage (legally) the oppo.

We find something that we can agree on!

I once nearly had a fight with the bloke who sits in front of me in the Shelf lower, by the halfway line. Our group of four was singing, joining in with the Park Lane when the bloke who sits in front turned round and shouted, "If you don't shut the **** up, I'm gonna knock you spark out". I asked him what his problem was. He complained that we were singing too much. I pointed out that it was a football match and that fans are kind of expected to sing and generally make a bit of noise.

He pointed to the Park Lane end and said, "If you want to ****ing sing, **** off to that stand".

To which I replied, "If you want to watch Spurs in peace and quiet, stay at home and watch it on your ****ing television".

To which he had no answer.

The game? Only that epic 3-1, taxi for Maicon victory v Inter Milan. If you can't get yourself up for a game like that, when will you ever?

 

[diego_maradona]

To me it began with Redknapp's appointment. At the time he was both an unpopular figure and a signal of reduction (any port in a storm was the tag at the time).

He may have won some round at the time, but I don't think we've ever been close to united around a manager since.

I don't think Poch will get there actually - principally because he's an excellent coach, a bit of an intellectual and a #decentbloke, which kind of ticks everyone's box.

Mate what's your twitter account?

 

[diego_maradona]

I am actually beginning to dislike a large part of our "support", maybe football fans in general. I've had some horrible experiences of late at WHL, with real idiots sitting near me or next to me. Then the stuff you read on social media and hear. People rounding on Pochettino already. You couldn't really make it up. The fact that Levy is the bad guy constantly. It's so childish in my mind, and its part of the boring cycle we have here. I said in the OMT that it's all beginning to get a bit boring and I'm waiting for Spurs to re-ignite my passion for it again. This is a large part of it. The crowd are boring, the views are the same old same old, it never seems to be anything constructive.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Is that really a failure of the manager if that happens?

I'd say that the blame is squarely at the feet of the fans who can't/won't understand football that involves the engagement of a brain in that situation.

I'm not sure I understand you?.... Is it a failure of the manager if a team who are bottom of the league come to your home and outplay you for pretty much the whole 90 minutes?.... If the players are carrying out his instructions then I would say "Yes, absolutely". If the players are not playing as instructed then no I wouldn't blame the manager, I would blame the players - although I would question why not a single thing was changed until after more than an hour of the game - perhaps so many players weren't carrying out instructions that he couldn't single out 3 to change?

I can only imagine your reaction in particular had we performed as we did yesterday under Sherwood....

 

[Finney Is Back]

I am actually beginning to dislike a large part of our "support", maybe football fans in general. I've had some horrible experiences of late at WHL, with real idiots sitting near me or next to me. Then the stuff you read on social media and hear. People rounding on Pochettino already. You couldn't really make it up. The fact that Levy is the bad guy constantly. It's so childish in my mind, and its part of the boring cycle we have here. I said in the OMT that it's all beginning to get a bit boring and I'm waiting for Spurs to re-ignite my passion for it again. This is a large part of it. The crowd are boring, the views are the same old same old, it never seems to be anything constructive.

I don't think anyone is rounding on Pochettino (yet).... Around me in the East Upper the fans are willing to give him a chance (just as I am). I do hope and expect to soon see a much better system than the one we employed yesterday however, as we will be losing a lot of games if we play as we did against West Brom.

 

[diego_maradona]

I'm not sure I understand you?.... Is it a failure of the manager if a team who are bottom of the league come to your home and outplay you for pretty much the whole 90 minutes?.... If the players are carrying out his instructions then I would say "Yes, absolutely". If the players are not playing as instructed then no I wouldn't blame the manager, I would blame the players - although I would question why not a single thing was changed until after more than an hour of the game - perhaps so many players weren't carrying out instructions that he couldn't single out 3 to change?

I can only imagine your reaction in particular had we performed as we did yesterday under Sherwood....

But as I said in the other thread, Pochettino wasn't happy with the performance, which suggests the players did not play as instructed. It's his job to now figure out why. But this could conceivably happen many more times yet until he finds a solution.

Your point about Sherwood. It's a fair point, my reaction and my patience for him was a lot more extreme than it is with Pochettino, mainly because I just didn't like him much. I know it's irrational, but hey that's football.

 

[scaramanga]

I'm not sure I understand you?.... Is it a failure of the manager if a team who are bottom of the league come to your home and outplay you for pretty much the whole 90 minutes?.... If the players are carrying out his instructions then I would say "Yes, absolutely". If the players are not playing as instructed then no I wouldn't blame the manager, I would blame the players - although I would question why not a single thing was changed until after more than an hour of the game - perhaps so many players weren't carrying out instructions that he couldn't single out 3 to change?

I can only imagine your reaction in particular had we performed as we did yesterday under Sherwood....

You claimed (or seemed to) that fans are more forgiving if we play at a high tempo than if we play in a more intelligent, considered way. So for two similar results, the only difference is the opinion of the fans - that's just a lack of patience in the fans, not a fault of the manager.

Yesterday's performance would never have happened under the Dinotard as it would have required patience and thought - an attribute and an ability he severely lacks.

 

[jimmyb]

I am actually beginning to dislike a large part of our "support", maybe football fans in general. I've had some horrible experiences of late at WHL, with real idiots sitting near me or next to me. Then the stuff you read on social media and hear. People rounding on Pochettino already. You couldn't really make it up. The fact that Levy is the bad guy constantly. It's so childish in my mind, and its part of the boring cycle we have here. I said in the OMT that it's all beginning to get a bit boring and I'm waiting for Spurs to re-ignite my passion for it again. This is a large part of it. The crowd are boring, the views are the same old same old, it never seems to be anything constructive.

It's getting close to the point for me that I call it a day.

And it's got little to do with the team or the futility of fighting for fourth (at best) every season or the cost of a season ticket. It's got everything to do with the fans. There is an absence of atmosphere if there isn't a poisonous atmosphere. There is no sense of a shared passion in the crowd any more. No joy. No humour. No solidarity. No defiance.

Just apathy or anger.

 

[diego_maradona]

I don't think anyone is rounding on Pochettino (yet).... Around me in the East Upper the fans are willing to give him a chance (just as I am). I do hope and expect to soon see a much better system than the one we employed yesterday however, as we will be losing a lot of games if we play as we did against West Brom.

I'm not sure the system is necessarily the problem. Maybe it was the application. The tenacity, intensity were missing. He is paid to figure out why the players didn't perform with the same gusto that they did v QPR and where we failed. But you can't round on him so quickly. (I'm not saying you are, but I have unbelievably seen others do so).

Maybe the system won't suit these players. But these are things Pochettino needs to learn. He will see things differently than either you or I and I hope he will have an ideal in mind of what he wants to achieve and what it takes to get there. It just won't happen over night.

I do think with these failings he becomes a step closer to putting it right. I hope so at least.

 

[chicken_badge]

AVB got one thing spot on last season and it was one of the things that contributed to his position becoming untenable. But our home "support" is embarrassing at times.

There's probably a few contributing factors. But I think our:
36000 seater stadium
24000 season ticket holder
80000 fan base (or whatever it is)
predicament is part of the problem.

I'm sure we have lots of nice friendly positive season ticket holders. But far far far too many of them are know it alls, who really should ditch their ticket for a while and take up bowls, but don't want to do so because they still love the club and don't want to lose the opportunity to buy a season ticket.

Any other club is either small fry so you can walk right back in, or are achieving at a higher level than us.

 

[diego_maradona]

It's getting close to the point for me that I call it a day.

And it's got little to do with the team or the futility of fighting for fourth (at best) every season or the cost of a season ticket. It's got everything to do with the fans. There is an absence of atmosphere if there isn't a poisonous atmosphere. There is no sense of a shared passion in the crowd any more. No joy. No humour. No solidarity. No defiance.

Just apathy or anger.

Exactly. I think it sums up the modern football fan in general sadly.

Look at the reaction at the Emirates each week. Its Wenger In, Wenger out with each passing week. It's embarrassing.

 

[chicken_badge]

I've said it before and I've said it again, make people swipe their membership cards on exit like an oyster and that's when they get their loyalty points.

I swear, Milton Keynes for a season would probably sort us right out