What transfer activity do you expect if De Boer gets the job?

[VolSpur]

Changes at LB, CB, and potentially LW and Forward.

Whoever comes in you would expect them to have a good technical ability, and to have an eye for a pass as well no matter what the position that's addressed.

Would love to hear anyones thoughts on what Sandro and Capoue's roles would be in a FDB 4-3-3. Generally have no idea.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Actually most of our signings two years ago had PL experience! Dempsey, Dembele, (Ade) and Sig all had PL experience. Only Lloris (that was then eased in a bit) and Vertonghen from abroad.

The kind of signing that Dempsey was is the kind of signing I think we sometimes have to be looking for. Not the best player in the world, but someone that could come in and do a job immediately. It's what Redknapp got so right at the start of his Spurs career.

If Clasie is signed to be our deep playmaker type, but has to be eased in we're still short a deep playmaker in our starting line-up imo.

Chiriches alongside Dawson or Kaboul? Seems like a massive assumption to think that it will work well from the start of the season to me.

We have some glaring weaknesses and shortcomings, they should be sorted out asap. That has to be the priority. And to sort it out quickly we should be looking for players that can hit the ground running in those positions.

Re Claise specifically - I guess the option then is to keep hold of Dembele till January.

The big issue we've got this summer, is no money. We have to buy low and expect to be able to sell them on high in a few years. That's our business model till at least 2018.

EPL players are massively overinflated compared to value in Holland or other parts of Europe and South America.

Do we spend £5m and low wages on Claise (and probably sell him to Madrid for £40m in 3 years), or do we spend £14m and high wages on Milner (and sell him to QPR in 2 years for virtually nothing)? There's only one answer for Levy (and me too).

 

[Gutter Boy]

Changes at LB, CB, and potentially LW and Forward.

Whoever comes in you would expect them to have a good technical ability, and to have an eye for a pass as well no matter what the position that's addressed.

Would love to hear anyones thoughts on what Sandro and Capoue's roles would be in a FDB 4-3-3. Generally have no idea.

First choice holder and back-up holder. Quite simple that one for me.

Then Eriksen and Holtby as the more creative/advanced ones. And Paulinho and Dembele (or Claise if we can upgrade) as the more alround/mobile ones.

 

[braineclipse]

Re Claise specifically - I guess the option then is to keep hold of Dembele till January.

The big issue we've got this summer, is no money. We have to buy low and expect to be able to sell them on high in a few years. That's our business model till at least 2018.

EPL players are massively overinflated compared to value in Holland or other parts of Europe and South America.

Do we spend £5m and low wages on Claise (and probably sell him to Madrid for £40m in 3 years), or do we spend £14m and high wages on Milner (and sell him to QPR in 2 years for virtually nothing)? There's only one answer for Levy (and me too).

That's a completely unbalanced transfer strategy and one that got us into a lot of trouble under our last DoF.

Modric became fantastic, but it certainly helped to have Palacios in the squad to help him along and get us performing short term while Modric was adjusting. And I think it helped to have a balanced strikeforce with a target man in it. And i think it helped to have a settled, well performing left back that could pick a pass. As an investment to the future having a functional team the players with potential can fit into can be very valuable I think. Success breeds development for me, and without short term success there won't be long term success for Baldini or our manager. Because they will be out on their bums and we'll be talking about the next potential from abroad while our current potential remains unfulfilled.

We all know that Levy wants potential and long term value, but he has been convinced to spend money on players like Palacios, Crouch, Defoe, Keane, Parker, Ade, Soldado etc in the past and he can be again I'm sure. So no, there's not only one answer for Levy.

And Dembele is not a playmaker!

 

[braineclipse]

And yes the value of PL players is inflated.

Partly why suggestions that have been floated around have been players like Vlaar with a year left on his contract, Cole whose contract runs out this summer, Carrick that has been linked away and might be replaced by United this summer etc.

Just because prices overall are inflated doesn't mean there are no good deals available to be made.

 

[Gutter Boy]

That's a completely unbalanced transfer strategy and one that got us into a lot of trouble under our last DoF.

Modric became fantastic, but it certainly helped to have Palacios in the squad to help him along and get us performing short term while Modric was adjusting. And I think it helped to have a balanced strikeforce with a target man in it. And i think it helped to have a settled, well performing left back that could pick a pass. As an investment to the future having a functional team the players with potential can fit into can be very valuable I think. Success breeds development for me, and without short term success there won't be long term success for Baldini or our manager. Because they will be out on their bums and we'll be talking about the next potential from abroad while our current potential remains unfulfilled.

We all know that Levy wants potential and long term value, but he has been convinced to spend money on players like Palacios, Crouch, Defoe, Keane, Parker, Ade, Soldado etc in the past and he can be again I'm sure. So no, there's not only one answer for Levy.

And Dembele is not a playmaker!

Ajax and Southampton both operate almost entirely on that model though. Is it a coincidence that their current coaches make up 2/3 of our shortlist do you think?

And that's exactly the problem with Dembele. He was bought to replace Modric and hasn't.

 

[Kingdawson]

Ajax and Southampton both operate almost entirely on that model though. Is it a coincidence that their current coaches make up 2/3 of our shortlist do you think?

Southampton certainly do not. Wanyama

And that's exactly the problem with Dembele. He was bought to replace Modric and hasn't.

What resale value is there on Wanyama when they spent 13m on him? what about the 15m spent on 28 year old Osvaldo only to be loaned out 6 months later?

 

[braineclipse]

Ajax and Southampton both operate almost entirely on that model though. Is it a coincidence that their current coaches make up 2/3 of our shortlist do you think?

And that's exactly the problem with Dembele. He was bought to replace Modric and hasn't.

Not entirely true. Like KD pointed out some of their signings haven't been "buy potential, sell for a big profit" type signings at all.

I think if you look at Ajax, although they obviously focus on youth and potential they also look to bring in at least some players with Eresdivisie experience. In fact I would say that signing up the best proven talents they can from other clubs in their league is pretty much standard operating procedure for them. They're not just signing random youngsters. The competitiveness of the league also matters here I think, it's easier to integrate a youngster as the best team in a league that's less competitive than it is for us where we are in the Premier League.

I obviously agree that we're looking to develop players and bring in players with a lot of potential as our general strategy. That doesn't mean that this is our approach for all transfers all the time, as I think I quite clearly illustrated with some of the examples in my previous post.

Why did you suggest keeping Dembele longer as a short term solution to our lack of a (deep) playmaker then?

 

[Kingdawson]

Braineclipse none of them have been...

7m on Jay Rodriguez from Championship Burnley...8m on Lovren....13m on Gaston Ramirez. In fact there's not 1 example in recent history that suggests that's there model. Yes they buy potential but not at low prices for high resale.

 

[braineclipse]

Braineclipse none of them have been...

7m on Jay Rodriguez from Championship Burnley...8m on Lovren....13m on Gaston Ramirez. In fact there's not 1 example in recent history that suggests that's there model. Yes they buy potential but not at low prices for high resale.

Not entirely sure that's true.

Nathaniel Clyne for a couple million was definitely one. Same for Yoshida and Gazzaniga I would say. Disagree on Lovren too, 8 million for a 23 year old defender is close enough to Chiriches that it could have been an identical story. Similarly Jay Rodgriguez is also obviously talented and in the "mainly bought because of potential" category.

Edit: Not necessarily for "high resale", I've always thought that's a bit of a misconception. More for "expected rise in value". Part of the idea with buying younger players is the potential for a profitable resale, but just as important is the idea that you'll get many seasons out of them and that they have the chance to improve into better players than what you can currently get for similar fees.

 

[Kingdawson]

2005-06, 2009-10, 2011-2012, 2012-2013

All season where the majority of our signings were English based players sprinkled with a couple of foreign imports.....those were also our best seasons in recent history. There has to be a balance and this season we got it terribly wrong.

 

[braineclipse]

2005-06, 2009-10, 2011-2012, 2012-2013

All season where the majority of our signings were English based players sprinkled with a couple of foreign imports.....those were also our best seasons in recent history. There has to be a balance and this season we got it terribly wrong.

Agreed. It's the balance Comolli got wrong at one end of the spectrum and I felt Redknapp got wrong at the other end of the spectrum in his last couple of seasons with us.

Agreed that last summer, at least in hindsight, we got it wrong again. I hoped at the time that we could field enough of our team from the previous season to let us integrate the players more slowly, but that obviously didn't happen. And along with injuries, losing Bale, sending Ekotto away on loan, banishing Ade etc it just didn't work out at all.

 

[P.D.]

Changes at LB, CB, and potentially LW and Forward.

Whoever comes in you would expect them to have a good technical ability, and to have an eye for a pass as well no matter what the position that's addressed.

Would love to hear anyones thoughts on what Sandro and Capoue's roles would be in a FDB 4-3-3. Generally have no idea.

I actually think there's a lot more to come from Capoue. He is a good mover and passed (short and long) as well as being very powerful and commanding. I think a full run of games in his favoured position and we'd see a much improved player.

 

[braineclipse]

I actually think there's a lot more to come from Capoue. He is a good mover and passed (short and long) as well as being very powerful and commanding. I think a full run of games in his favoured position and we'd see a much improved player.

Certainly looked like it earlier this season. Then he seemed to completely go off the boil and then was injured.

Will be interesting with him and many of our players what happens under new management and a new system.

 

[Rossi22]

Bringing in all these Dutch players reminds me of Solskjaer bringing half of Norway with him to Cardiff. Just because they're decent players in a substandard league doesn't mean they'll make it at Spurs. Vertonghen and Eriksen were clear standout players, not the same as some of the players currently linked.

 

[braineclipse]

Bringing in all these Dutch players reminds me of Solskjaer bringing half of Norway with him to Cardiff. Just because they're decent players in a substandard league doesn't mean they'll make it at Spurs. Vertonghen and Eriksen were clear standout players, not the same as some of the players currently linked.

It's nothing like it.

The Norwegian league is beyond awful, I actually know as a Norwegian.

There have been several players succeeding from the Dutch league in Vertonghen and Eriksen like you mention, but also a player like Suarez that went on to be a superstar. Nothing like it at all can be said about the Norwegian league. The best players from the Norwegian league are at a half way decent Championship level.

How much do you know about some of the players from the Dutch league we're being linked to? That's a league I don't follow at all and in between those very positive about some of those signings it would be good with some balance and negativity from someone informed.

 

[Rossi22]

How much do you know about some of the players from the Dutch league we're being linked to? That's a league I don't follow at all and in between those very positive about some of those signings it would be good with some balance and negativity from someone informed.

About as much as GB

 

[braineclipse]

About as much as GB

I was looking for something a bit more specific.

Which players is it you don't rate, based on what information? Stuff like that...

 

[P.D.]

Certainly looked like it earlier this season. Then he seemed to completely go off the boil and then was injured.

Will be interesting with him and many of our players what happens under new management and a new system.

He didn't get a run of games in defensive midfield then was injured and dumped in at cb. Far too early to write him off. Hes young still and has several caps for France. These are the level of players we need to be developing to move up the table. Anyone new coming in is unlikely to have better raw attributes than him with our budget so its up to us to get the most out of these players.

on the Dutch league there is a stack of good players from there in recent years like van nistlerooy, robben, vdv, schneidjer, strootman, eriksen, vertonghen, vermalen. Suarez, dembele plus many more ive forgotten.

Chadli has been a good signing as well, really settled in the last couple of months.

 

[Rossi22]

I was looking for something a bit more specific.

Which players is it you don't rate, based on what information? Stuff like that...

Well I'm reliably informed that Daley Blind is nothing particularly special and is in fact not even a real left back, yet some seem to claim he's the answer to all our LB woes. Although Ajax are a massive name, they're not currently a particularly good football team - as evidenced by them being picked apart by the champions of Austria. So I struggle with this idea of de Boer bringing half the Ajax squad with him. Maybe I do GB a disservice and he does in fact watch loads of games but it's a little confusing when he was so vocally against us signing Christian Eriksen yet he implores the signings of players who outside of a few Dutch circles aren't really considered anything other than decent.