milo
Jack L. Jones
Of course they were, no one would argue otherwise.
It does seem a shame that people are dragging up arguments from previous years.
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We blew it!
- Thread starter The Portugeezer
- Start date
Of course they were, no one would argue otherwise.
It does seem a shame that people are dragging up arguments from previous years.
re finishing 4th/3rd if we had vdv, we are going to have to accept that we have different opinions, but
re dempsey, i agree that vdv may have been a better option. but this still doesnt hid from the fact that neither vdv or demspey are the calibre of player we need to progress to the level we want to be. when we signed dempsey, the biggest club that wanted him was liverpool. arsenal (let alone chelsea, city, utd) had no interest in him. showing that he is probably not the type of player we need either.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
I guess I just look at it differently. I'm not one for analysing the fixtures and saying we need to get x amount of points in y amount of games, you just have to take it a game at a time and obviously try and match what you're competitors are doing. At the start of the season, I don't wonder how many points will be needed to attain our goals. IF we finished 4th with 64 points, I wouldn't care that we had got a lower points than last season. I look at the bottom line.
I wasn't trying to dodge the question, but I rarely contribute to those hypothetical next 10 games threads because they rarely go according to plan.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Well one way we wouldn't have maximised our POTENTIAL was if we still had Harry in charge. Last season's mis-use of our squad and this season PR shambles should be enough evidence of that
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
Well I apologise for bringing previous managers into the thread, but how else are we supposed to compare? My point was that every season we have lower wages than our rivals, this year is no different.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
I think that to evaluate our performance some level of perspective that doesn't include how our (league) rivals performed is necessary. An objective evaluation of performance.
Our performance overall this season wouldn't have been any different had Saudi Sportswashing Machine managed to toon* in a goal in the last minute today, at least not the way I see it. The outcome would have course have been massively different, but not because of anything we did.
And if the question is "did we blow it" then I think a look at our performance that is at least somewhat objective is needed.
*toon (verb) to succeed beyond expectations due to a fluke or random chance
Edit: Not in any way suggesting that you're dodging the question by the way.
That is how I feel, too.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Actually I have a lot of time for Dempsey. He scored some very very important goals this season, but overall his performances weren't up to the same level as VDV in my mind. I'm sure that there are many who will disagree with that comment but VDV and Modric were absolutely key to our fluid possession game and we never really got back to that style with the current playing staff. As effective as we were this season the 1st half of last season was the best football Spurs have played in many a long year.
But as I was saying a striker in January I'm sure would have been the difference between us looking up at the Gooner's hairy arses again rather than sitting on a higher branch bricking down on their heads.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
I agree with you.
I think this thread is a thread where bringing up previous seasons and thus previous managers is fair. The thread title is "We blew it", most people agreed that we blew it last season and many blamed the manager, comparing this season to the last one in this thread surely must be about as relevant of a comparison as you can make.
I do get that the Harry discussions are getting old, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't ever be brought up in any thread at any point.
As a point in this debate, there were stats posted earlier about our points gained in the second half of this season compared to last year. There was a fairly significant difference. That would again be looking at our results, not the results of our rivals. I think there is an argument in those results to support the point of view that we blew it last season, but not this season and that we collapsed last season, but not this season. Even though the outcome (league position) when compared to Arsenal was the same.
8-2-0 their last 10 according to MOTD. Others have made the point that their FAILURE in the cups helped them get ECL.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I agree that wages are an issue every season. I have no problem with people comparing this season to others, I just get the feeling that some people (not you) are seeing us finishing fourth as a vindication of arguments they had a year ago.
Kingdawson
Banned
5th.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Great league form for them; but's it's true that Arsenal cannot multi-task. I think Wenger actually picked a side in the first leg vs Bayern to get knocked out so that they could concentrate on the 4th place race
milo
Jack L. Jones
Quite right, apologies, you caught me dreaming for a moment there.
I still think that some people are more interested in being proved right in an internet argument than in how Spurs do.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
There's no question that we handed it on a plate to Arsenal last season. But they did actually go on a great run of form also last campaign, the turning point was beating us, they managed to overturn a 10 point lead in something like 5 games. And I am not denying they went on a great run of form towards the end of this season, but I can't help but think we played a part in them getting 4th by dropping points we shouldn't have.
I really don't want to be pained by a doom and gloom merchant (not by you especially), I like to think I am realistic about Spurs. I would have taken 5th from the start of the season, but your goals do change as the season progresses. There are positive signs:
Our away form
Bale's transformation into one of the most influential players in the world
The likes of Vertonghen and Lloris settling into the league so easily
Our spirit to come back from losing positions and to get late goals
If we had been behind Arsenal all season, then I wouldn't be disappointed, but it's yet another good position we've put ourselves in only to come up short at the end.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
Well that's not the case for me. I was skeptical about AVB, but he's erased all of the doubts I had. But I get frustrated when people move the goalposts and I get shouted at for bringing up previous managers, even when it is relevant, but no one who speaks badly of said manager gets a volley for bringing him up again.
Jurgen the German
Tommy Harmer
I would rather Spurs be successful than be proved right in any arguement.
Kingdawson
Banned
I don't think that's the case at all.
I really didn't want AVB and now i'm happy we've got him. Jurgen didn't want AVB and now he's happy we got him. I just think there's a lot of people on here that get a bit overexcited when they see something they consider negative directed at something they like and they resort to these sort of low blow accusations.
braineclipse
Willie Hall
No further arguments from me
Cheers for another enjoyable discussion Jurgen, time for me to call it a night.
May you all have wonderful transfer rumour dreams, amongst dreams of Jessica Alba and Mila Kunis of course. Apart from those of you who prefer men of course, in which case might I suggest:
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
It doesn't make me feel any better to know that it's our record Premier League points tally and would have got us into the CL in any other year. The fact is, we're not competing against some mystical number, we're competing against specific opposition, and if they raise the bar against us then we have to respond. Ultimately, we did blow it, because not only were we seven points clear in March, but Arsenal had their worst start to a PL season under Wenger and Chelsea had their worst one under Abramovic, I thought we could have capitalised on that more at the time and after being very very good in the second half of the season it's hard not to look back at some of the mistakes that were made in the early part.
There were some extremely poor tactical decisions made in the first half of the season. If the team selection and substitutions hadn't been so badly wrong in the West Brom and Norwich games at the start of the season and we'd only managed to hang on and not concede a late goal in either one of them...well, we'd be in the Champions League now. Those weren't isolated incidents. Chelsea at home, Wigan at home, Arsenal between Adebayor's red card and half-time, Stoke at home...all very poor tactical displays. AVB got better at this in the second half of the season, but there were still games where he got things badly wrong and was bailed out by the brilliance of Gareth Bale. Today being a good example. There shouldn't be any minute of any game in which we don't have at least one of Sigurdsson, Holtby or Carroll on the pitch, otherwise we struggle to move the ball around properly in midfield. We only got 7 of those minutes today. It took AVB far too long to notice that Gallas was finished at this level. It took him far too long to integrate Lloris into the starting line-up. Some of you think this was all part of some master plan, I think he could have done it quicker than he did and got better results.
People talk about an improvement in mentality...we dropped 23 points from winning positions this season, that's gotta be one of our worst ever seasons for that. And of course, just two out of those 23 would have seen us finish top 4. The reason for throwing the points away IMO was poor substitutions - either the wrong players coming on/off, AVB waiting too long to make the subs, or the substitutions being overly negative, throwing away the momentum and inviting the opposition to attack us. Having said that, we've snatched points with late goals in seven successive games now, that's good to see and is a sign of the passion and desire throughout the squad.
But for me, the biggest reason we will be playing Europa League football is simple. And it is our fault. And I'm going to create another thread on it now.
There were some extremely poor tactical decisions made in the first half of the season. If the team selection and substitutions hadn't been so badly wrong in the West Brom and Norwich games at the start of the season and we'd only managed to hang on and not concede a late goal in either one of them...well, we'd be in the Champions League now. Those weren't isolated incidents. Chelsea at home, Wigan at home, Arsenal between Adebayor's red card and half-time, Stoke at home...all very poor tactical displays. AVB got better at this in the second half of the season, but there were still games where he got things badly wrong and was bailed out by the brilliance of Gareth Bale. Today being a good example. There shouldn't be any minute of any game in which we don't have at least one of Sigurdsson, Holtby or Carroll on the pitch, otherwise we struggle to move the ball around properly in midfield. We only got 7 of those minutes today. It took AVB far too long to notice that Gallas was finished at this level. It took him far too long to integrate Lloris into the starting line-up. Some of you think this was all part of some master plan, I think he could have done it quicker than he did and got better results.
People talk about an improvement in mentality...we dropped 23 points from winning positions this season, that's gotta be one of our worst ever seasons for that. And of course, just two out of those 23 would have seen us finish top 4. The reason for throwing the points away IMO was poor substitutions - either the wrong players coming on/off, AVB waiting too long to make the subs, or the substitutions being overly negative, throwing away the momentum and inviting the opposition to attack us. Having said that, we've snatched points with late goals in seven successive games now, that's good to see and is a sign of the passion and desire throughout the squad.
But for me, the biggest reason we will be playing Europa League football is simple. And it is our fault. And I'm going to create another thread on it now.