VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

VAR is not Skynet, not AI, not a foolproof computer algorythm.

It is a tool for humans to use to make better decisions. That allows for mistakes, because it has a human element.

Referees are professional decision makers, so anything that allows them to make better ones is a good thing by me.

And I maintain, having the chance to rewatch an incident will mean more correct decisions being made. Something this WC has proven.

And yet, thats not enough. If you dont like the idea of VAR you set the bar unreasonably high so you can then be proven right.

If absolutely EVERY decision made its not correct its a failure. If absolutely every off the ball thing is not called out and acted upon its a failure.

This is essentially the argument being made, read it again and then try saying its a fair and reasonable position.

 

[Grays_1890]

VAR is not Skynet, not AI, not a foolproof computer algorythm.

It is a tool for humans to use to make better decisions. That allows for mistakes, because it has a human element.

Referees are professional decision makers, so anything that allows them to make better ones is a good thing by me.

And I maintain, having the chance to rewatch an incident will mean more correct decisions being made. Something this WC has proven.

And yet, thats not enough. If you dont like the idea of VAR you set the bar unreasonably high so you can then be proven right.

If absolutely EVERY decision made its not correct its a failure. If absolutely every off the ball thing is not called out and acted upon its a failure.

This is essentially the argument being made, read it again and then try saying its a fair and reasonable position.

You think I am making the bar so high that I am right in this argument? You are wrong.

My expectations are naturally higher on VAR then Refs because of what it is. If you can't see that then lets just leave it

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

What I can see is that decisions have gone to 99%+ and you still arent happy.

 

[jts1882]

So correct decisions have improved from 95% to 99%, but 99% is still unacceptable.

Now there are two reactions to this:

1. Improve the VAR system so there are even less mistakes.
2. Abandon it and go back to 95% accuracy.

It's remarkable that so many think the second is the better choice.

 

[r-u-s-x]

So correct decisions have improved from 95% to 99%, but 99% is still unacceptable.

Now there are two reactions to this:

1. Improve the VAR system so there are even less mistakes.
2. Abandon it and go back to 95% accuracy.

It's remarkable that so many think the second is the better choice.

1). I question the 99% accuracy - by their own standard "The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with the award or non-award of a penalty kick" many stonewall PKs were not reviewed meaning they are not included in the numbers.

You are missing a bit of your equation, 99%> 95% all other things being equal but those arguing against are saying:

(99% accuracy - the bad bits of VAR) < 95%

 

[Grays_1890]

1). I question the 99% accuracy - by their own standard "The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with the award or non-award of a penalty kick" many stonewall PKs were not reviewed meaning they are not included in the numbers.

You are missing a bit of your equation, 99%> 95% all other things being equal but those arguing against are saying:

(99% accuracy - the bad bits of VAR) < 95%

This is what point I am trying to make, maybe badly. You can say 99% of decisions were correct, of which a fair few are still up for debate (yesterdays Pen is up in the air still).

But my point is where did it help the ref on things the ref missed? There was a blatent red for someone earlier in the tournament that was not actioned who went on to score the winner. That was a perfect example of what VAR is there for.

 

[r-u-s-x]

This is what point I am trying to make, maybe badly. You can say 99% of decisions were correct, of which a fair few are still up for debate (yesterdays Pen is up in the air still).

But my point is where did it help the ref on things the ref missed? There was a blatent red for someone earlier in the tournament that was not actioned who went on to score the winner. That was a perfect example of what VAR is there for.

correct by their own remit VAR is meant to "The role of the VAR is to ensure that no clearly wrong decisions are made in conjunction with sending off or not sending off a player" any missed red cards should be added to decisions being wrong.

https://football-technology.fifa.com/en/media-tiles/video-assistant-referee-var/

 

[Grays_1890]

And for what its worth if VAR is not at the World Cup, ysterdays Pen is not given and people don't blink. Now people are saying it was wrong and a disgrace which I thought was meant to leave the game?

People will say "well the ref gave it based on the video evidence" but that whole slowing the stuff down and freeze framing done him no favours as everything looks a pen.

 

[r-u-s-x]

And for what its worth if VAR is not at the World Cup, ysterdays Pen is not given and people don't blink. Now people are saying it was wrong and a disgrace which I thought was meant to leave the game?

People will say "well the ref gave it based on the video evidence" but that whole slowing the stuff down and freeze framing done him no favours as everything looks a pen.

This was my worry with VAR increasing diving in the area rather than stop it, any contact is justified as a penalty. Seemed to stop yellows for diving but that may be coloured by Neymar and them not wanting to book him

 

[Grays_1890]

This was my worry with VAR increasing diving in the area rather than stop it, any contact is justified as a penalty. Seemed to stop yellows for diving but that may be coloured by Neymar and them not wanting to book him

I said that to my mate, they slowed down a few pens that in my opinion were not pens, but based on the laws of the game given pens and go in the correct decision box on the report.

 

[parklane1]

It was a clear penalty once the replays were shown - honestly some people will argue black is white to have a pop at VAR

And of course in the reverse some will argue white is black to defend VAR. Clear penalty my arse.

 

[billyiddo]

And of course in the reverse some will argue white is black to defend VAR. Clear penalty my arse.

You don't think a player intentionally sticking his arm out and handling the ball in the penalty area is a clear penalty?

 

[parklane1]

You don't think a player intentionally sticking his arm out and handling the ball in the penalty area is a clear penalty?

I do not think he did.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Referees are professional decision makers, so anything that allows them to make better ones is a good thing by me.

The VAR panel got the decision right for the handball incident in the WCF but it had to be endorsed by the ref on the pitch which took an age.

Given the ref had to go over to a screen and then watch and rewatch the exact same images as the video panel up in the gods, why not let them make the decision in the first place and speed the whole process up?

 

[r-u-s-x]

You don't think a player intentionally sticking his arm out and handling the ball in the penalty area is a clear penalty?

Not trying to say "FACT" but almost every podcast I have listened to say it was not a penalty and at worst "you have seen them given" - I think you are on the minority opinion on this one (other refs have also said it shouldn't have been given).

 

[billyiddo]

Not trying to say "FACT" but almost every podcast I have listened to say it was not a penalty and at worst "you have seen them given" - I think you are on the minority opinion on this one (other refs have also said it shouldn't have been given).

There's a replay which clearly shows him stick his arm out to the ball, i dunno if people are choosing to ignore that or whether they haven't seen it but it's clear as day that he reacted when the ball came in to his view.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The VAR panel got the decision right for the handball incident in the WCF but it had to be endorsed by the ref on the pitch which took an age.

Given the ref had to go over to a screen and then watch and rewatch the exact same images as the video panel up in the gods, why not let them make the decision in the first place and speed the whole process up?

Preaching to the choir mate, Ive been saying exactly this from the start.

The VAR ref is a full and qualified ref (hilariously even in full kit). There is no reason at all why they cant send a decision down the line and have it enforced on the field.

 

[r-u-s-x]

The VAR panel got the decision right for the handball incident in the WCF but it had to be endorsed by the ref on the pitch which took an age.

Given the ref had to go over to a screen and then watch and rewatch the exact same images as the video panel up in the gods, why not let them make the decision in the first place and speed the whole process up?

an argument I do not necessarily agree with but...

As there are so many subjective calls for the ref, having the board and the ref both make decisions means two different filters / tolerance's for fouls. This means a lack of consistency and a drop in standards. Fifa also mentioned in their blurb when introducing VAR that they did not want to undermine the on field referee by allowing someone hirer up to over-rule them.

 

[r-u-s-x]

There's a replay which clearly shows him stick his arm out to the ball, i dunno if people are choosing to ignore that or whether they haven't seen it but it's clear as day that he reacted when the ball came in to his view.

in super slow mo - in realtime it does not look this way- Majority of people do not see it your way so perhaps its not as clear as you imagine.

 

[parklane1]

Not trying to say "FACT" but almost every podcast I have listened to say it was not a penalty and at worst "you have seen them given" - I think you are on the minority opinion on this one (other refs have also said it shouldn't have been given).

Pretty much the same as i have heard since the game, but some will defend VAR to the death no matter what. ( at the same time they accuse those that see it different as calling black white).