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VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

Spur of the moment said:
Ronaldo was denied a retake when the Iran keeper flouted the rules by first dancing behind his line (he's supposed to be on it) then advancing off it before the kick was taken.

Get back on your line! 15 of the 19 penalties in Sunday's World Cup last 16 games saw goalkeepers encroach... so why aren't referees penalising them?
  • Goalkeepers were caught leaving their lines early during penalties on Sunday
  • Both World Cup last 16 clashes saw stoppers break the rules to try and win
  • A staggering 15 of the 19 spot kicks saw a goalkeeper leave his line prematurely
  • Igor Akinfeev, Kasper Schmeichel and Danijel Subasic were all guilty of foul play

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...reak-rules-leaving-lines-early-penalties.html
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Is that not proving my point If 15/19 leave the line its be design not error, I know it's against the laws of the game but not how it's reffed in practice

Can't see the links on my phone, are they all about the same distance off?
 
Spur of the moment said:
I give up.
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I have remained consistent throughout, I agree they are all illegal by the laws, do you think they are all missing the keeper come off their line, not only in this WC but majority of penalties taken?

This can be stopped with or without VAR just by applying the laws more strictly something they have decided not to do.
 
r-u-s-x said:
I have remained consistent throughout, I agree they are all illegal by the laws, do you think they are all missing the keeper come off their line, not only in this WC but majority of penalties taken?

This can be stopped with or without VAR just by applying the laws more strictly something they have decided not to do.
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So you agree refs are failing to apply the laws of the game correctly. The solution is quite simple, hand the decision over to the VAR. That way we should see the majority of clear and obvious infringements penalised.

Problem solved.
 
Spur of the moment said:
So you agree refs are failing to apply the laws of the game correctly. The solution is quite simple, hand the decision over to the VAR. That way we should see the majority of clear and obvious infringements penalised.

Problem solved.
Click to expand...
I said from the start they are choosing not to enforce this law strictly because they don't want to not because they can't, they could enforce it without VAR if they chose to its easy to watch the keeper and the player. The current situation is by design.

There are loads of other situations they don't follow the letter of the law.

At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower must:
  • stand facing the field of play
  • have part of each foot on the touchline or on the ground outside the touchline
  • throw the ball with both hands from behind and over the head from the point where it left the field of play
All opponents must stand at least 2 m (2 yds) from the point at which the throw-in is taken.
 
r-u-s-x said:
I said from the start they are choosing not to enforce this law strictly because they don't want to not because they can't, they could enforce it without VAR if they chose to its easy to watch the keeper and the player. The current situation is by design.

There are loads of other situations they don't follow the letter of the law.

At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower must:
  • stand facing the field of play
  • have part of each foot on the touchline or on the ground outside the touchline
  • throw the ball with both hands from behind and over the head from the point where it left the field of play
All opponents must stand at least 2 m (2 yds) from the point at which the throw-in is taken.
Click to expand...
Yes, of course there are other situations where the rules are not applied too strictly, eg foul throw ins, the number of seconds a keeper holds the ball before kicking it out etc but generally those are much less critical. But penalty situations are highly critical, they can make all the difference, hence they need the help of the VAR to adjudicate.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Yes, of course there are other situations where the rules are not applied too strictly, eg foul throw ins, the number of seconds a keeper holds the ball before kicking it out etc but generally those are much less critical. But penalty situations are highly critical, they can make all the difference, hence they need the help of the VAR to adjudicate.
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So you think they are missing the encroachment rather than choosing not to enforce it?

Will agree to disagree on that
 
this debate is precisely why var wont work in football.

@r-u-s-x, following your line of argument, surely shirt pulling at corners is not a foul either, and goalkeepers clattering on-coming attackers is also not a foul?

also, how comes the stamp on neymar didnt lead to a red car? a light slap on the face would have led to a red - how is that any different to the assault on neymar?

people will soon realise var is a joke - theres just no way (in its current form/use) that it can be used consistently in football given the difference in how the game is reffed in practice vs paper.
 
Wilheldiva said:
this debate is precisely why var wont work in football.

@r-u-s-x, following your line of argument, surely shirt pulling at corners is not a foul either, and goalkeepers clattering on-coming attackers is also not a foul?

also, how comes the stamp on neymar didnt lead to a red car? a light slap on the face would have led to a red - how is that any different to the assault on neymar?

people will soon realise var is a joke - theres just no way (in its current form/use) that it can be used consistently in football given the difference in how the game is reffed in practice vs paper.
Click to expand...

What if they ref it as the laws are written?
 
@r-u-s-x, following your line of argument, surely shirt pulling at corners is not a foul either, and goalkeepers clattering on-coming attackers is also not a foul?


Yep this is what I am saying if it's never given then it's not a foul despite what is written in the laws they are perfect examples especially goal keepers(or defenders ) wiping out an attacker after they have got the shot off
 
galeforce said:
What if they ref it as the laws are written?
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If its across the board then it's either a very different game than we have now or they will have to re-write the laws with a lot of caveats and complexity.

I don't particularly think it's a good idea but that's not the point I am making, I am commenting on what happens in practise and imo has always been the case.
 
Wilheldiva said:
this debate is precisely why var wont work in football.

@r-u-s-x, following your line of argument, surely shirt pulling at corners is not a foul either, and goalkeepers clattering on-coming attackers is also not a foul?

also, how comes the stamp on neymar didnt lead to a red car? a light slap on the face would have led to a red - how is that any different to the assault on neymar?

people will soon realise var is a joke - theres just no way (in its current form/use) that it can be used consistently in football given the difference in how the game is reffed in practice vs paper.
Click to expand...
Sorry dude just reread this ... Assault on Neymar?
 
r-u-s-x said:
I said from the start they are choosing not to enforce this law strictly because they don't want to not because they can't, they could enforce it without VAR if they chose to its easy to watch the keeper and the player. The current situation is by design.

There are loads of other situations they don't follow the letter of the law.

At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower must:
  • stand facing the field of play
  • have part of each foot on the touchline or on the ground outside the touchline
  • throw the ball with both hands from behind and over the head from the point where it left the field of play
All opponents must stand at least 2 m (2 yds) from the point at which the throw-in is taken.
Click to expand...
Oh dear Ghod! We have already AGREED that refs were ignoring those types of situations and applying common sense. But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about major game-changing situations.

You will no doubt remember we already have a precedent for refs being overruled in this WC when they hitherto have chosen persistently ignore major game-changing incidents such as wrestling players to the ground. That was when Coluna intervened and decided they should be referred to the VAR. Had that not been the case England would have been awarded two fewer penalties against Panama and we would be talking much less about Harry Kane winning the Golden Boot.

So once again I say, take the decision over excessive movement by the keeper away from them altogether and give it to the VAR.

Problem solved.

!!!!!!!!
 
Spur of the moment said:
Oh dear Ghod! We have already AGREED that refs were ignoring those types of situations and applying common sense. But that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about major game-changing situations.

You will no doubt remember we already have a precedent for refs being overruled in this WC when they hitherto have chosen persistently ignore major game-changing incidents such as wrestling players to the ground. Until Coluna intervened and decided they should be referred to the VAR. Had that not been the case England would have been awarded two fewer penalties against Panama and we would be talking much less about Harry Kane winning the Golden Boot.

So once again I say, take the decision over excessive movement by the keeper away from them altogether and give it to the VAR.

Problem solved.

!!!!!!!!
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I am going to keep going as I have wasted a bit of energy on this now.

We agree that refs are letting this go, do you think they all decided to do this themselves or from instruction (either implicitly or explicitly) from the same guys who would instruct the VAR refs to crack down on this. Bear in mind it's been the case for years. If they think it's a mistake the refs who allowed them would have crap marks and not asked to ref again in further matches.

The key point I am trying to make is this is by design, there is no problem to solve. If they decided it was a problem and want to solve it they just need to say that they want to enforce it and it will stop with or without VAR it's an easy rule to enforce.

Likely reasons
They don't want endless retakes.
They don't want to send goalkeepers off.
They are actually OK with giving keepers a little advantage to even it up a little.
 
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r-u-s-x said:
I am going to keep going as I have wasted a bit of energy on this now.

We agree that refs are letting this go, do you think they all decided to do this themselves or from instruction (either implicitly or explicitly) from the same guys who would instruct the VAR refs to crack down on this. Bear in mind it's been the case for years. If they think it's a mistake the refs who allowed them would have crap marks and not asked to ref again in further matches.

The key point I am trying to make is this is by design, there is no problem to solve. If they decided it was a problem and want to solve it they just need to say that they want to enforce it and it will stop with or without VAR it's an easy rule to enforce.

Likely reasons
They don't want endless retakes.
They don't want to send goalkeepers off.
They are actually OK with giving keepers a little advantage to even it up a little.
Click to expand...
Okay so we fundamentally disagree about the issue of keepers moving EXCESSIVELY before the penalty has been taken. I'm not talking about minor infringements, I have been talking all along about MAJOR floutings of the rule where the outcome of the game is affected. That is just a much cheating as wrestling players to the ground. You clearly disagree.

Houston we have a problem!!!
 
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