*** Tottenham Hotspur vs. Burnley OMT ***

[LutonSpurs]

Agreed, although I think that it could also be a case of the younger players being more willing to buy into his methods. To be fair to Dembele, I think that he has done quite well in an more advanced position when he has come off the bench recently.

I can see changes in Dembeles game. My feeling on him is that he is comfortable at Spurs and possibly doesn't give his all. Otherwise I cannot understand why a player of his ability is not performing.

 

[Pirate55]

I've said for ages I'd personally play Eriksen deeper with Bentaleb.

Agreed, especially if we had a proper No9 with Kane in the hole.

 

[milo]

QED. See heat map and key passes.

They don't show that though, unless you are saying that the middle of the park is just off our forward :rio:

 

[Pirate55]

WHY do you think he has been able to do this? Because in Kane he has a forward who moves superbly allowing Eriksen more space, in Bentaleb he has a DM who protects him and in Davis, he has a LB who is defensively sound should he drift and play free. Plus Eriksen is simply working harder and playing better! As for Chadli and Lamela staying wide(r) the fact Burnley didn't come to stifle the ball and try to pinch us on the break whilst settling for a point allowed us to play our style.

This is a moot point. Chicken and egg. Do we play "our style" regardless of the opposition? Or do we adapt "our style" depending on the opponents and their approach?

 

[milo]

I can see changes in Dembeles game. My feeling on him is that he is comfortable at Spurs and possibly doesn't give his all. Otherwise I cannot understand why a player of his ability is not performing.

It could be a bit of that but quick passing has never been his strength. Given the improvement in the team since Mason and Bentaleb have been in the side, I cannot see him playing many games at the base of midfield save against weak cup sides or in emergencies.

 

[Pirate55]

They don't show that though, unless you are saying that the middle of the park is just off our forward :rio:

They most certainly do! Or are you arguing that Eriksen not appearing in the opponents penalty box is him playing "just off our forward"?

Are you saying he played as a no. 10? If not, then he must have played in the middle of the park, no?

 

[milo]

They most certainly do! Or are you arguing that Eriksen not appearing in the opponents penalty box is him playing "just off our forward"?

Are you saying he played as a no. 10? If not, then he must have played in the middle of the park, no?

The heat maps show that he spent the most time just off centre in an advanced position. If you look at Kane's heat map you will see that he spends most of the game just outside the area too. So yes, Eriksen was supporting him.

 

[FatBloke]

Bit of a blast from the past seeing Ian Woan on the sidelines for Burnley. Remember him scoring a few screamers in his heyday for Notts Forest.

I remember him pretty much knocking us out of the FA Cup on his own, back in '95 (or was it '96?) thanks to two superb free kicks. I spent the next few years referring to him as Ian "The *******" Woan.

 

[Rossi22]

I've said for ages I'd personally play Eriksen deeper with Bentaleb.

I think this would be a terrible idea, sorry. Eriksen does so much damage in the final third and we want to bog him down with defensive work where he's got to spend half the game running back, tracking, battling, tackling etc. He's simply not robust enough to do that job anyway and it's a big waste of his talents, the reason it worked great for Modric was not only is he fantastic in the middle third of the pitch but he goes to pieces in the final third so it made sense for him to play deeper. He's our biggest influence in the final third and we want to move him away from goal? You need a strong platform to allow your attacking players to thrive, Eriksen wouldn't give us that, same reason the likes of David Silva, Samir Nasri, Juan Mata, Mesut Ozil etc will never be seen playing in central midfield. It could work if Eriksen was alongside two players tasked with the majority of defensive duties in a 433 but in a CM2 it would never work and we'd be weaker at both ends of the pitch for it.

 

[Bullet]

In terms of wingers and 442 or 4231 and Eriksen playing deeper, this analysis by Phil Neville is mildly interesting (how Liverpool dominated A.rse) as it explains why having pace up front and narrowing the wide men can outnumber midfield etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30571842

Probably time to move all this to a different thread though

 

[braineclipse]

QED. See heat map and key passes.

Not really.

Eriksen:

Lamela:

Chadli:

(All 3 showing touches, from whoscored.com chalkboard)

To me this doesn't show Eriksen playing deeper than Lamela and Chadli at all.

If what we played wasn't a 4-2-3-1 then the 4-2-3-1 description doesn't really have any value imo.

 

[Pirate55]

Not really.

Eriksen:

Lamela:

Chadli:

(All 3 showing touches, from whoscored.com chalkboard)

To me this doesn't show Eriksen playing deeper than Lamela and Chadli at all.

If what we played wasn't a 4-2-3-1 then the 4-2-3-1 description doesn't really have any value imo.

No, but it is the perfect description of someone playing in the middle rather than as a number 10, which is the point I was making.

 

[milo]

No, but it is the perfect description of someone playing in the middle rather than as a number 10, which is the point I was making.

What do you mean by "playing in the middle", P55, and how do you think that this differs from a #10?

 

[thfcsteff]

What is 'QED' and 'heat maps'? What did yor eyes tell you mate?

 

[thfcsteff]

I was just pointing out that we had it easier because Burnley came to play.

 

[billyiddo]

I don't think there's any fast and loose rule which says the player central in the 3 behind the forward in a 4231 has to be deployed as a traditional #10 (nor that the wide two have to stay wide/invert for that matter)

 

[thfcsteff]

I think my original answer got wiped. First off, decent points mate but the key thing you're missing with mine is that I am going with ONE holding player (Bentaleb - who ironically can attack too but can play this rile well) and letting Eriksen roam from a deeper position. You couldn't do it against everyone unless you had a Matic-type player (I believe Bentaleb is on that path but not there yet) but I think he could find even more freedom and choice roaming from deeper positions. Kane's movement and play helps this, furthermore I believe it would give Lamela even more opportunity to flourish too! Anyway, all opinions.

 

[Pirate55]

What do you mean by "playing in the middle", P55, and how do you think that this differs from a #10?

To my mind there is a subtle distinction between a central AM and a traditional no 10. The number 10 is more of a support striker in a final 1 1 formation, while a central AM operates all over the middle of the park to spray the play around rather than primarily try and link with the main striker as well as getting in the box himself to get on the end of things.

Eriksens lack of getting in the box against Burnley and his heat maps showing his position all over the attacking half illustrates for me the difference in the roles.

 

[LutonSpurs]

To my mind there is a subtle distinction between a central AM and a traditional no 10. The number 10 is more of a support striker in a final 1 1 formation, while a central AM operates all over the middle of the park to spray the play around rather than primarily try and link with the main striker as well as getting in the box himself to get on the end of things.

Eriksens lack of getting in the box against Burnley and his heat maps showing his position all over the attacking half illustrates for me the difference in the roles.

Yes there is. I think the contention here is whether he has been playing as a quarterback. Someone who sprays the ball diagonal or through the middle from the middle of the pitch. In a deeper role. Like Cesc or Xabi. Even Gerrard in his later years. I don't think he has played as a quarterback except when we have been losing and Poch has taken off a DM and bought on a second striker and then only has he played this role.

 

[milo]

To my mind there is a subtle distinction between a central AM and a traditional no 10. The number 10 is more of a support striker in a final 1 1 formation, while a central AM operates all over the middle of the park to spray the play around rather than primarily try and link with the main striker as well as getting in the box himself to get on the end of things.

Eriksens lack of getting in the box against Burnley and his heat maps showing his position all over the attacking half illustrates for me the difference in the roles.

Thanks. I had a look at Kane's heat map from the Everton game. Would you say that he played as an AM in that game?

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/matchcentre/tottenham-hotspur-vs-everton-30112014/#divHeatmap