**** Tottenham Hotspur FC vs Fulham FC ****

[Jurgen the German]

Personally, I had no expectation of reaching top 4 this season. Ange inherited a very broken club who sold our best player - arguably our best player of all time.

Our start was dreamland stuff. Everything went our way. 10 games unbeaten and Robbie Williams and The Fonz loving Ange. It was never sustainable. For me, we still have to view the season as a whole based on where we started from. In that context, Ange gets top 6, he’s done well especially given how he’s got the whole club pulling in the same direction playing good football.

It’d be very harsh to have a go at Ange in any way because he’s failed to live up to elevated expectations that his own great management helped to create.

Can’t believe I’m saying this but I’m inclined to agree with Baleforce. At the start of the season top 4 was a pipe dream but you have to reevaluate your goals as the season progresses. Being top in November to possibly 5th or 6th in May when it’s all over would be disappointing for me whatever way it’s sliced.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Can’t believe I’m saying this but I’m inclined to agree with Baleforce. At the start of the season top 4 was a pipe dream but you have to reevaluate your goals as the season progresses. Being top in November to possibly 5th or 6th in May when it’s all over would be disappointing for me whatever way it’s sliced.

But that's the very epitome of being short term and reactionary IMO. You'll end up criticising a guy for not achieving something you deemed very unlikely at the start of the season because he had a good run of games at the start. That's a very dangerous cycle and it's unfair on Ange - the season has to be judged as whole.

Of course, expectations get elevated a bit when we were where we were after 10 games - I don't think any fan could say they didn't start to dream after 10 games. That's why I did say it'd be (a bit) disappointing not to get CL but it goes too far to say it'd be devastating.

And @Baleforce, I get the being fed up...think we've all felt that.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Some on here got wayyyy too big for their boots after the Villa game, a team who played away in Europe 3 days before our game and played over half hour with ten men. Come up against teams who like us have a whole week to prepare for a game and all of a sudden....

We aren't that good, we are a decent team nothing more and have been outplayed many times for long periods by mid table or lower teams this season. Europa League would be a far better starting block for this new area than CL, money aside....

The first 10 league games were a dream and I’ll admit I started to get carried away. Been a reality check since Chelsea. The most annoying thing is we’ll never know how this team would have faired had we not decided to start kicking everyone that night when we were well on top. Chances teams would have figured us out and there would have been bumps in the road like we’re having now but the team and the club were on such a high until that night it just feels like it got sucked out because of our stupidity. We’re nowhere near being the best team in the league but you can’t measure momentum like we had at the time, just look at Leicester

 

[Jurgen the German]

But that's the very epitome of being short term and reactionary IMO. You'll end up criticising a guy for not achieving something you deemed very unlikely at the start of the season because he had a good run of games at the start. That's a very dangerous cycle and it's unfair on Ange - the season has to be judged as whole.

Of course, expectations get elevated a bit when we were where we were after 10 games - I don't think any fan could say they didn't start to dream after 10 games. That's why I did say it'd be (a bit) disappointing not to get CL but it goes too far to say it'd be devastating.

And @Baleforce, I get the being fed up...think we've all felt that.

Sensible post. I still don’t think Villa are actually that good, they have a good manager who has been around the block and knows the league but their players aren’t all that. United too, average team with a couple of standout players and their biggest star seems disinterested or something is going on off the pitch that is affecting him.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Prepare for further disappointment people. We are not catching Villa for fourth and I reckon Yanited will over take us for fifth as well. Don't forget we have Emirates Marketing Project, Liverpool and Cheat$ki away, plus the Scum at home to come and the Spammers away as well.

The same as villa then…

 

[Mikey10]

Personally, I had no expectation of reaching top 4 this season. Ange inherited a very broken club who sold our best player - arguably our best player of all time.

Our start was dreamland stuff. Everything went our way. 10 games unbeaten and Robbie Williams and The Fonz loving Ange. It was never sustainable. For me, we still have to view the season as a whole based on where we started from. In that context, Ange gets top 6, he’s done well especially given how he’s got the whole club pulling in the same direction playing good football.

It’d be very harsh to have a go at Ange in any way because he’s failed to live up to elevated expectations that his own great management helped to create.

Having got ourselves into the position to get CL it will surely give everyone a knock if we don’t convert. Would reinforce the idea, yet again, that we often fail to get over the line when opportunities present themselves.

It wouldn’t be a disaster, but it would move everything back.

 

[tommysvr]

So many people panicking after a very bad loss. The reality is we are, at worst, back where we were 10 days ago, 5 points behind Villa with a game in hand.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Having got ourselves into the position to get CL it will surely give everyone a knock if we don’t convert. Would reinforce the idea, yet again, that we often fail to get over the line when opportunities present themselves.

It wouldn’t be a disaster, but it would move everything back.

Yep. We’re not as good as the top 3, but I look at Villa and United’s squads and I honestly wouldn’t swap either for ours.

 

[Spoonman]

Performance v Results.

I may have an over simplified view of football but you can talk about tactics, formations, possession, control, determination as much as you like but an awful lot of games come down to which team takes their chances on the day.

Yesterday was no different to alot of our games this season, no control, very open, outplayed for large periods, big chances for both sides. I don't particularly like that, we need to be more solid but we have come out on top in alot of those games due mostly to superior finishing. Yesterday our finishing was woeful. 6 big chances and 5 didn't even hit the target.

So no doubt Fulham were the better side and deserved the win but on another day with better finishing we win that 3-2 and the poor performance would be largely overlooked by many.

 

[Baleforce]

So many people panicking after a very bad loss. The reality is we are, at worst, back where we were 10 days ago, 5 points behind Villa with a game in hand.

It’s not panic, it’s slipping back on the comfortable spu rsy slippers.

It’s not a short term thing either, it’s conditioned by decades of underachievement.

 

[Grays_1890]

It’s not panic, it’s slipping back on the comfortable spu rsy slippers.

It’s not a short term thing either, it’s conditioned by decades of underachievement.

Which is why I was pleased with Ange comments about that and how much emphasis is put on 4th and how that effectively doesn't help with that conditioning.

 

[tommysvr]

It’s not panic, it’s slipping back on the comfortable spu rsy slippers.

It’s not a short term thing either, it’s conditioned by decades of underachievement.

Which I hate about fans. What happened X years ago has no relevance to this team. Bringing up past failures, even if they do linger for us, just creates a negative atmosphere. In the end, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy because we can't win everything and when we do fail there will be 5 stadiums worth of Spurs fans ready to say "I told you so."

 

[Baleforce]

Which I hate about fans. What happened X years ago has no relevance to this team. Bringing up past failures, even if they do linger for us, just creates a negative atmosphere. In the end, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy because we can't win everything and when we do fail there will be 5 stadiums worth of Spurs fans ready to say "I told you so."

It has relevance to me, I can’t unlearn the lessons of the past.

It’s not just the fans, the badge carries the history too, if there isn’t a continuity in narrative, what is there, how can you drop past failures without also forgetting past successes too?

 

[Baleforce]

Which is why I was pleased with Ange comments about that and how much emphasis is put on 4th and how that effectively doesn't help with that conditioning.

I agree with the wider point.

But we are not doing anything until we are back in the CL, that’s top of the to do list, that’s where the money is, and where the best players want to be.

 

[paxtonwolf]

I'd love to see us with Johnson on the right and Werner on the left. To get quick balls into the box.

Rather than this at the moment than seeing Kulu overthink his build-up play

 

[tommysvr]

It has relevance to me, I can’t unlearn the lessons of the past.

It’s not just the fans, the badge carries the history too, if there isn’t a continuity in narrative, what is there, how can you drop past failures without also forgetting past successes too?

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying this team isn't destined to fail because past teams have. That is what 'Spurs-y' means to me, and why I fudging hate that our fanbase has embraced it.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Top 4 is far from done, might be one of those races like the one when we reached the CL final with all teams losing often.

 

[Baleforce]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying this team isn't destined to fail because past teams have. That is what 'Spurs-y' means to me, and why I fudging hate that our fanbase has embraced it.

It’s a very convenient self defence mechanism.

And I think there is weight of the past, footballers generally know football history, particularly of a club they have agreed to sign for.

 

[tommysvr]

It’s a very convenient self defence mechanism.

Exactly right. And like I said before, it's self-fulfilling because it's impossible to win everything.

 

[harr1984]

So many people panicking after a very bad loss. The reality is we are, at worst, back where we were 10 days ago, 5 points behind Villa with a game in hand.

No one is panicking, no one is going in on Ange or anything - it's just another reality check, we are a long way off where we want to be and not as good as some on here like to think we are. People constantly reference the start of the season as the barometer, and now we have all our players back apparently we were going to be great again.

I said at the time that's not how football works, and that our great start was down to having a new manager in a new league and the element of surprise in how we setup. Now, second half of the season where everyone has played us they are better prepared and you can see this with how even very average teams give us problems. See De Zebri, his attacking football was a thing to behold a year ago - now everyone knows about him, along with European football he has found it more difficult.

Ange is going to have to adapt his style to a little extent at least longer term, because we aren't Emirates Marketing Project and have the best players in every position so we can dominate and do as we please. He will figure it out I'm sure, but we have a way to go before challenging for the league which was being mentioned on here not that long ago....