Tom Carroll

[afsoc4life]

Why criticise him for this when he did better than his team mates?

I am still wondering why you are bringing comparisons in? I have done similar for Kane and Alli on either the game thread or their own threads. On Tom, it is simple - I noticed he misplaced some passes that I thought were simple for his level. You also agree he misplaced some passes.

 

[milo]

I am still wondering why you are bringing comparisons in? I have done similar for Kane and Alli on either the game thread or their own threads. On Tom, it is simple - I noticed he misplaced some passes that I thought were simple for his level. You also agree he misplaced some passes.

I think it is a strange thing to criticise him on when his passing was the best of of any of our midfielders. He made more passes, more found their man, there was range and variety and the vast majority were forward and direct.

 

[afsoc4life]

I think it is a strange thing to criticise him on when his passing was the best of of any of our midfielders. He made more passes, more found their man, there was range and variety and the vast majority were forward and direct.

Why does Kane receive criticism at times even though he has scored 2 to 3 goals in that game? As I said he misplaced some passes and IIRC (game is past) one led to quite a dangerous counter.

 

[milo]

Why does Kane receive criticism at times even though he has scored 2 to 3 goals in that game? As I said he misplaced some passes and IIRC (game is past) one led to quite a dangerous counter.

I don't know but we are not talking about Kane.

He did make a mistake that invited pressure towards the end. I would expect a player on their third league start to make mistakes, particularly against a decent team like Everton.

I think that you are unfair in describing him as average in your original post though. He played well when you view his performance as a whole and in the areas that you singled out for criticism, he performed better than his team mates.

 

[afsoc4life]

I don't know but we are not talking about Kane.

He did make a mistake that invited pressure towards the end. I would expect a player on their third league start to make mistakes, particularly against a decent team like Everton.

I think that you are unfair in describing him as average in your original post though. He played well when you view his performance as a whole and in the areas that you singled out for criticism, he performed better than his team mates.

Your opinion is different from my opinion. He has potential but he is not first team for me.

 

[Rorschach]

I think Carroll fades towards the end of matches from what I can see so far. I don't think he's got the full 90 minutes of 'Poch press' in his locker yet but that will get better with time. Tired minds and limbs usually mean more mistakes and from what I remember of the Everton match this was the case for Carroll. I think Bentaleb coming on for him at about the 70min mark would have been a good sub in this match in an attempt to keep the midfield ticking over. Dier was knackered too for the last 15-20mins.

But taking the game as a whole I thought he he was very good with just a few minor lapses mostly towards the end.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I think Carroll fades towards the end of matches from what I can see so far. I don't think he's got the full 90 minutes of 'Poch press' in his locker yet but that will get better with time. Tired minds and limbs usually mean more mistakes and from what I remember of the Everton match this was the case for Carroll. I think Bentaleb coming on for him at about the 70min mark would have been a good sub in this match in an attempt to keep the midfield ticking over. Dier was knackered too for the last 15-20mins.

But taking the game as a whole I thought he he was very good with just a few minor lapses mostly towards the end.

Most of our players in that 'advanced one of the double pivot' only tend to do 70 minutes

Mason and Alli are often subbed off when they play that role because of the physical demands - and to keep the tempo up for the last 20

 

[Rorschach]

Most of our players in that 'advanced one of the double pivot' only tend to do 70 minutes

Mason and Alli are often subbed off when they play that role because of the physical demands - and to keep the tempo up for the last 20

I don't really want to get into a discussion about it but I'm not sure we play a double pivot, at least by the definition as I know it. We play a holder and box-to-box in midfield generally.

That aside the role in the team Carroll plays is indeed very physically demanding as you say but his style is not one that would be as physically intensive as say Alli or Dembele. They play the position differently to Carroll and run a lot more IMO, Alli especially. Carroll plays the role more as a play maker and makes the ball do most of the work (in possession). His style should allow him to go the full distance. I wouldn't mind seeing comparisons of distances run for all three when played there.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It's not distances covered, but Milo has used heat mas to show you can't really tell the difference between Dier, Mason and Bentaleb in terms of positioning at CM.

I think Dier is a lot more mobile than people expect considering his size, and that in balance his partner does more defensive work than often assumed.

 

[parklane1]

I don't really want to get into a discussion about it but I'm not sure we play a double pivot, at least by the definition as I know it. We play a holder and box-to-box in midfield generally.

That aside the role in the team Carroll plays is indeed very physically demanding as you say but his style is not one that would be as physically intensive as say Alli or Dembele. They play the position differently to Carroll and run a lot more IMO, Alli especially. Carroll plays the role more as a play maker and makes the ball do most of the work (in possession). His style should allow him to go the full distance. I wouldn't mind seeing comparisons of distances run for all three when played there.

Sacrilege calling the " buzz word' into question.

 

[rich]

I will start this post by saying that I am a Tom Carroll fan. I saw him play against Chelsea reserves in the 2013-14 season alongside Bentaleb, Kane, Ball, Coulthirst and Milos in the Spurs side and against Josh McEachran, Nathan Ake, Loftus Cheek and Izzy Brown. We won 5-2(maybe 5-3) and he was by a country mile the best player on the pitch. He was the player picking up the ball off the centre halves, running the midfield and also supplying the killer balls too. So I know he has it in his locker to run a game if he is given the time to work his way into a team, so I am pleased to see him get minutes. I'm not going to say he should be starting if the best XI (which from a midfield point of view I think is Dier, Dembele, Lamela, Alli and Eriksen) but I think he's good enough to oust Mason and Bentaleb given the chance.

He's a more creative player than many posters seem to be giving him credit for. He plays the ball with pace (which I think makes up for his lack of pace), looks for a forward ball whenever possible and is always in space. After the Everton game the pundits on Sky (Souness and Carragher I think) singled him out saying he ran the game. I think if someone like Souness (who was an incredible midfielder) says that a midfielder runs a game then you have to listen to.

I think it's pretty unfair to judge him after this few appearances. If he remains in and around the side until the end of the season then we can judge his contribution, but I think it would certainly be worth offering the lad a new contract. I think he's earned that.

 

[parklane1]

I will start this post by saying that I am a Tom Carroll fan. I saw him play against Chelsea reserves in the 2013-14 season alongside Bentaleb, Kane, Ball, Coulthirst and Milos in the Spurs side and against Josh McEachran, Nathan Ake, Loftus Cheek and Izzy Brown. We won 5-2(maybe 5-3) and he was by a country mile the best player on the pitch. He was the player picking up the ball off the centre halves, running the midfield and also supplying the killer balls too. So I know he has it in his locker to run a game if he is given the time to work his way into a team, so I am pleased to see him get minutes. I'm not going to say he should be starting if the best XI (which from a midfield point of view I think is Dier, Dembele, Lamela, Alli and Eriksen) but I think he's good enough to oust Mason and Bentaleb given the chance.

He's a more creative player than many posters seem to be giving him credit for. He plays the ball with pace (which I think makes up for his lack of pace), looks for a forward ball whenever possible and is always in space. After the Everton game the pundits on Sky (Souness and Carragher I think) singled him out saying he ran the game. I think if someone like Souness (who was an incredible midfielder) says that a midfielder runs a game then you have to listen to.

I think it's pretty unfair to judge him after this few appearances. If he remains in and around the side until the end of the season then we can judge his contribution, but I think it would certainly be worth offering the lad a new contract. I think he's earned that.

Very good post.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I will start this post by saying that I am a Tom Carroll fan. I saw him play against Chelsea reserves in the 2013-14 season alongside Bentaleb, Kane, Ball, Coulthirst and Milos in the Spurs side and against Josh McEachran, Nathan Ake, Loftus Cheek and Izzy Brown. We won 5-2(maybe 5-3) and he was by a country mile the best player on the pitch. He was the player picking up the ball off the centre halves, running the midfield and also supplying the killer balls too. So I know he has it in his locker to run a game if he is given the time to work his way into a team, so I am pleased to see him get minutes. I'm not going to say he should be starting if the best XI (which from a midfield point of view I think is Dier, Dembele, Lamela, Alli and Eriksen) but I think he's good enough to oust Mason and Bentaleb given the chance.

He's a more creative player than many posters seem to be giving him credit for. He plays the ball with pace (which I think makes up for his lack of pace), looks for a forward ball whenever possible and is always in space. After the Everton game the pundits on Sky (Souness and Carragher I think) singled him out saying he ran the game. I think if someone like Souness (who was an incredible midfielder) says that a midfielder runs a game then you have to listen to.

I think it's pretty unfair to judge him after this few appearances. If he remains in and around the side until the end of the season then we can judge his contribution, but I think it would certainly be worth offering the lad a new contract. I think he's earned that.

To be fair he's a lot older than those other players and had been featuring for the first team since 2012.

He's a peer of Townsend, Livermore and Caulker; not Bentaleb and Kane.

 

[milo]

Your opinion is different from my opinion. He has potential but he is not first team for me.

We haven't been discussing whether he is a first team player or not. We have been discussing his performance against Everton and in particular you criticising his passing, despite it being better than our other midfielders.

For what it is worth, I don't think that he is a starter when everyone is fit, he is a useful squad player.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

To be fair he's a lot older than those other players and had been featuring for the first team since 2012.

He's a peer of Townsend, Livermore and Caulker; not Bentaleb and Kane.

Doesn't matter about age of your performing... Young or old

He never said he was as young as some of those players he said it was and under 21 game

 

[Gutter Boy]

Doesn't matter about age of your performing... Young or old

He never said he was as young as some of those players he said it was and under 21 game

But he would have been 21 or 22, whereas others could have been 17 or 18. That's very significant at that stage.

 

[milo]

But he would have been 21 or 22, whereas others could have been 17 or 18. That's very significant at that stage.

Players develop at different rates. Rather than get up about his age or who he is a peer of, we should be assessing his current performances and potential.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But he would have been 21 or 22, whereas others could have been 17 or 18. That's very significant at that stage.

That depends on the player and also the role they play.

He would have been older than them yet they were all rated higher (certainly the Chelsea players)

 

[parklane1]

To be fair he's a lot older than those other players and had been featuring for the first team since 2012.

He's a peer of Townsend, Livermore and Caulker; not Bentaleb and Kane.

He is a year older then Kane, and 3 years younger then Livermore, one year younger then Caulker and one year younger then Townsend.
So its not a lot older.

 

[afsoc4life]

We haven't been discussing whether he is a first team player or not. We have been discussing his performance against Everton and in particular you criticising his passing, despite it being better than our other midfielders.

For what it is worth, I don't think that he is a starter when everyone is fit, he is a useful squad player.

What is funny is you are apparently ignoring every compliment I have given him and focused on my comments about him misplacing passes. I will criticise him similarly to the way I criticise Bentaleb for his cross field passes that get intercepted and lead to dangerous counters.