Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i dont see it like that. the changes were made AFTER utd were getting through to our goal. they should have easily scored a few by then. i was screaming at the tv for the mids to get back and cover and every time i was proved right as utd were getting too much of the lose balls too easy. if i can watch tv and see us being exposed then why cant the manager cant see it until its too late. as far as im concerned he made the changes as a reaction to us getting out numbered so you can argue he couldnt see the flaws before they happened.

its quite simple in my opinion, if we keep playing the way we do (assuming we dont progress) we will eventually be 2 or 3 down within 45 minutes

In the first 45 against United we created the better chances.

In the second half we got the 2-0 goal in part thanks to being brave and leaving attacking players on the pitch and relatively high up the pitch.

Anyone and their cat could have predicted that United would put us under pressure, but changing it before they actually did and before they started creating chances doesn't really make sense.

 

[Rossi22]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i dont see it like that. the changes were made AFTER utd were getting through to our goal. they should have easily scored a few by then. i was screaming at the tv for the mids to get back and cover and every time i was proved right as utd were getting too much of the lose balls too easy. if i can watch tv and see us being exposed then why cant the manager cant see it until its too late. as far as im concerned he made the changes as a reaction to us getting out numbered so you can argue he couldnt see the flaws before they happened.

its quite simple in my opinion, if we keep playing the way we do (assuming we dont progress) we will eventually be 2 or 3 down within 45 minutes.
if we played city or chelsea and allowed them the same room around our box the way we allowed southampton and utd they would have battered us

What's the answer then? Go 4231?

oh.

 

[veron23]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

In the first 45 against United we created the better chances.

In the second half we got the 2-0 goal in part thanks to being brave and leaving attacking players on the pitch and relatively high up the pitch.

Anyone and their cat could have predicted that United would put us under pressure, but changing it before they actually did and before they started creating chances doesn't really make sense.

i dont agree that leaving attacking players further up the pitch is why we won/why we scored (we dont need to play that way as we have many players with pace). the point i think people are missing is regardless of the formation and personnel the MOST IMPORTANT element is the players are close to each other. if you or TS or whoever is a fan of having attacking players high up the pitch thats fine but make sure the defenders are high up as well so there is no gaps.

the one thing ive noticed more than anything else under TS is that the gap is horrendously wide and teams are literally bipassing our midfield when they attack.

even when our defenders won the ball a lot of the time they had no midfielder to pass it to so had to kick it long and give utd possesion again. all of this stuff is basic and can be fixed regardless of skill level. its down to the manager to point this out to the players and so far he hasnt and were lucky we got away with it

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

In the first 45 against United we created the better chances.

In the second half we got the 2-0 goal in part thanks to being brave and leaving attacking players on the pitch and relatively high up the pitch.

Anyone and their cat could have predicted that United would put us under pressure, but changing it before they actually did and before they started creating chances doesn't really make sense.

I agree - im really not sure what people expect. Whilst Manure are not the force they once were, they still have this quality of piling pressure on. When we went 2-0, it should have been plain sailing, although no doubt they would have put a bit of pressure, but what really messed things up is that one lapse of concentration just after we scored. The game plan was working and had worked.

They threw everything at us and did not create too much in all barring the last few minutes which will always be expected

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i dont agree that leaving attacking players further up the pitch is why we won/why we scored (we dont need to play that way as we have many players with pace). the point i think people are missing is regardless of the formation and personnel the MOST IMPORTANT element is the players are close to each other. if you or TS or whoever is a fan of having attacking players high up the pitch thats fine but make sure the defenders are high up as well so there is no gaps.

the one thing ive noticed more than anything else under TS is that the gap is horrendously wide and teams are literally bipassing our midfield when they attack.

What do you mean by the gaps? Can you post any heat maps that illustrate the point you are making?

 

[DHSF]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i dont agree that leaving attacking players further up the pitch is why we won/why we scored (we dont need to play that way as we have many players with pace). the point i think people are missing is regardless of the formation and personnel the MOST IMPORTANT element is the players are close to each other. if you or TS or whoever is a fan of having attacking players high up the pitch thats fine but make sure the defenders are high up as well so there is no gaps.

the one thing ive noticed more than anything else under TS is that the gap is horrendously wide and teams are literally bipassing our midfield when they attack.

This wasnt evident against Manure. It was against West Brom but TS has obviously tweaked it slightly.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i dont agree that leaving attacking players further up the pitch is why we won/why we scored. the point i think people are missing is regardless of the formation and personnel the MOST IMPORTANT element is the players are close to each other. if you or TS or whoever is a fan of having attacking players high up the pitch thats fine but make sure the defenders are high up as well so there is no gaps.

the one thing ive noticed more than anything else under TS is that the gap is horrendously wide and teams are literally bipassing our midfield when they attack.

I thought Ade in particular, but also Soldado to some extent, did brilliantly with just this against United. Worked their socks off to get deep enough to get close to Carrick fairly consistently. Yes towards the end of the first half and leading up to Ade coming off in the second players were tiring and gaps started opening up, but that's only natural and will happen regardless of formation and player selection. So Sherwood did the right thing, brought on fresh legs in midfield and for Ade and Soldado to keep closing those gaps as well as possible.

If we had been giving away "horrendously wide gaps" and allowed United the freedom to bypass our midfield I think the man of the match award wouldn't have gone to Chiriches, it would have gone to Carrick or even more likely - Rooney. Just how relatively anonymous these players were illustrates that we defended quite well.

I'm not saying leave two strikers high up the pitch, but there's a middle ground between that and changing it to a 4-5-1 before it's actually needed. Sitting too deep will make counter attacking rather difficult and it will invite pressure, and I'm not really confident that we would be able to soak up that pressure over a long time. I thought Sherwood did really well with his substitutions.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

[tweet]418807150450704385[/tweet]

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree - im really not sure what people expect. Whilst Manure are not the force they once were, they still have this quality of piling pressure on. When we went 2-0, it should have been plain sailing, although no doubt they would have put a bit of pressure, but what really messed things up is that one lapse of concentration just after we scored. The game plan was working and had worked.

They threw everything at us and did not create too much in all barring the last few minutes which will always be expected

Agreed. Absolutely key period for me was the 10-12 minutes up until they started creating chances close to the 90 minute mark. We actually managed to turn the tide a bit, keep possession, move the ball around. We didn't just collapse back whilst giving the ball away constantly as teams (including ourselves) often end up doing in those situations.

 

[veron23]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

What's the answer then? Go 4231?

oh.

the answer is regardless of the formation def, mid and strikers must be close together leaving no lines between. if you support your team mates and set up triangles wherever the ball is (defending or attacking) then any formation works.

our gap between mid and def is shockingly big under TS

 

[africanspurs]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

i dont see it like that. the changes were made AFTER utd were getting through to our goal. they should have easily scored a few by then. i was screaming at the tv for the mids to get back and cover and every time i was proved right as utd were getting too much of the lose balls too easy. if i can watch tv and see us being exposed then why cant the manager cant see it until its too late. as far as im concerned he made the changes as a reaction to us getting out numbered so you can argue he couldnt see the flaws before they happened.

its quite simple in my opinion, if we keep playing the way we do (assuming we dont progress) we will eventually be 2 or 3 down within 45 minutes.
if we played city or chelsea and allowed them the same room around our box the way we allowed southampton and utd they would have battered us

do you happen to know why united started getting through?

 

[Spurs7891]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Wish Sherwood will show some passion whenever we score or win games. His "soft" celebrations are really boring to watch. Was really disappointed with his lack of celebration after we had beaten ManU. Being a new manager and beating ManU in only his 5th game should have been the cause for wild celebration from him. Instead he was just softly hugging and shaking hands with his team members, as if beating ManU means nothing to him. One of the things I enjoyed most when AVB was the manager was his wild celebrations whenever we score or win matches. Can't ever forget the way AVB celebrated with emotion and passion after we had won at ManU last season. Wish Sherwood will show some reactions like that.

 

[lurker of old]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I agree that it can be fun to see that the manager is passionate but I couldn't give a damn about Sherwood's celebrations. If we win, he can adopt a poker face and show no emotion whatsoever as far as I'm concerned...it is the points which count! Besides, there is something quite cool about a restrained celebration, very 1950s!

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Wish Sherwood will show some passion whenever we score or win games. His "soft" celebrations are really boring to watch. Was really disappointed with his lack of celebration after we had beaten ManU. Being a new manager and beating ManU in only his 5th game should have been the cause for wild celebration from him. Instead he was just softly hugging and shaking hands with his team members, as if beating ManU means nothing to him. One of the things I enjoyed most when AVB was the manager was his wild celebrations whenever we score or win matches. Can't ever forget the way AVB celebrated with emotion and passion after we had won at ManU last season. Wish Sherwood will show some reactions like that.

I'd rather see a manager who walks off the pitch without any major celebration because it shows they realise one win against United or City or Chelsea or Arsenal doesn't really mean anything unless you continue to win for the duration of the season. If we finish fourth, or win a trophy I want to see them go ballistic but until then the job is not done, and by not going mental it helps keep everyones feet on the ground. Also gives the impression of, it's no big deal, with the players we have (whether they are good enough or not) we should expect to be beating the big teams.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think a less emotional manager is better. I'd rather he was focused on thinking ahead and not get too caught up in the action on the pitch. Wonder how it feels for the players having someone jumping up and down and shouting at them compared to someone that is calmer and gives more considered instructions.

 

[clevelandspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Wish Sherwood will show some passion whenever we score or win games. His "soft" celebrations are really boring to watch. Was really disappointed with his lack of celebration after we had beaten ManU. Being a new manager and beating ManU in only his 5th game should have been the cause for wild celebration from him. Instead he was just softly hugging and shaking hands with his team members, as if beating ManU means nothing to him. One of the things I enjoyed most when AVB was the manager was his wild celebrations whenever we score or win matches. Can't ever forget the way AVB celebrated with emotion and passion after we had won at ManU last season. Wish Sherwood will show some reactions like that.

Couldn't disagree more. It's all about karma, I always think of Di Canio sliding and jumping around the pitch like a little school girl after their derby win. I can understand the passion but it is quite classless really. I am of the adage, act like you've been there before.

 

[ArnieArdiles]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Regarding Sherwood's muted celebration. I think it's fine , each to their own and all that .

Another thing to take into account is that in his post match interviews, he had expressed his annoyance in conceding such a quick goal to Man Utd after going 2-0 up .

IIRC , he said something about our players running 70 yards and more to join in the celebrations of, Eriksen's goal and that in his opinion, had contributed to their lack of concentration immediately thereafter. That leaves me thinking , him showing calmness at the final whistle rather than an OTT celebration, was the correct thing to do as he would've wanted to pull the players up on this later on.

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

I think a less emotional manager is better. I'd rather he was focused on thinking ahead and not get too caught up in the action on the pitch. Wonder how it feels for the players having someone jumping up and down and shouting at them compared to someone that is calmer and gives more considered instructions.

I think that most managers who jump up and down are doing it for show

 

[milo]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

the answer is regardless of the formation def, mid and strikers must be close together leaving no lines between. if you support your team mates and set up triangles wherever the ball is (defending or attacking) then any formation works.

our gap between mid and def is shockingly big under TS

Can you find anything to illustrate/support this point?

 

[clevelandspur]

Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Can you find anything to illustrate/support this point?

I think it just appears this way for starters because we used to play with 3 holding mids and a huge gab between them and our lone striker.