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Tim Sherwood…gone \o/

Do you want Tim Sherwood to stay as manager?


  • Total voters
    125
  • Poll closed .
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

It is complete and utter fantasy land to say we could have gotten any of these players. So I don't know why it's being debated as if failure to bring them in was down to a lack of will or smarts on Spurs' part. Or, an unwillingness to back AVB. That is self evidently not the case.

Exactly.

Also some of those players have third party ownership, something illegal in the PL and at times near impossible to negotiate with thus over inflating the price.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Villa - said publicly he didn't want to come.
Coentrao - said publicly he didn't want to come.
Hulk - one of the highest paid players in the world, current Brazil starting striker, and would have cost £40m+, assuming he'd even have been willing come to a non CL club averaging 5th place in the PL, which is extremely unlikely to say the least.
Moutinho - he ended up at Monaco, who are probably paying him more than double what we could have offered.


It is complete and utter fantasy land to say we could have gotten any of these players. So I don't know why it's being debated as if failure to bring them in was down to a lack of will or smarts on Spurs' part. Or, an unwillingness to back AVB. That is self evidently not the case.
Hang on what are you doing there chancer making a sensible argument? That's not what this thread is for.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Villa - said publicly he didn't want to come.
Coentrao - said publicly he didn't want to come.
Hulk - one of the highest paid players in the world, current Brazil starting striker, and would have cost £40m+, assuming he'd even have been willing come to a non CL club averaging 5th place in the PL, which is extremely unlikely to say the least.
Moutinho - he ended up at Monaco, who are probably paying him more than double what we could have offered.


It is complete and utter fantasy land to say we could have gotten any of these players. So I don't know why it's being debated as if failure to bring them in was down to a lack of will or smarts on Spurs' part. Or, an unwillingness to back AVB. That is self evidently not the case.

Yeah...we could have got Moutinho had we not dingdonged around. That much is pretty obvious.

Hulk according to Castles was willing to take a wage cut to join us.

But these are just the ones we know about, I'm pretty sure that AVB's philosophy was to want a few top class 'game winners' rather than a bloated squad that he would need to rotate and keep happy. In the end that committee meant he couldn't function to his potential, meaning we either screwed up in backing him or we screwed up in hiring him in the first place.

But I just think saying 'anyone should have known how Levy works', knowing that how he works is searching for 'deals' rather than backing the manager with who he really wants isn't really useful. Just because that's 'how he works' it doesn't mean it will ever lead to us achieving the objectives he seems to have.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Was Villa at the training ground? I think we could have got that one over the line by taking his passport and phone off him.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yeah...we could have got Moutinho had we not dingdonged around. That much is pretty obvious.

Hulk according to Castles was willing to take a wage cut to join us.

But these are just the ones we know about, I'm pretty sure that AVB's philosophy was to want a few top class 'game winners' rather than a bloated squad that he would need to rotate and keep happy. In the end that committee meant he couldn't function to his potential, meaning we either screwed up in backing him or we screwed up in hiring him in the first place.

But I just think saying 'anyone should have known how Levy works', knowing that how he works is searching for 'deals' rather than backing the manager with who he really wants isn't really useful. Just because that's 'how he works' it doesn't mean it will ever lead to us achieving the objectives he seems to have.
of course not.....if Levy expects to keep within a tight budget and still qualify regularly for the CL then he is bonkers. We know, but thats the insanity of the man
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Last 10 games:

1. Unlucky not to overturn Benfica last night with a second string team.
2. Matched (at least) Arsenal on the day, sucker punched with an early goal that was down to player error (hence Giletgate).
3. Conceded 3 terrible goals to individual mistakes, 2 at set pieces, against Benfica at home.
4. Matched (at least) Chelsea 11 v. 11 for an hour before a refereeing mistake killed us.
5. Decent if uninspiring win against Cardiff
6. Took out Dnipro on a great European night
7. Awful display against Norwich
8. Tight loss to Dnipro away, tie eventually won
9. Destroyed Toon
10. Beat one of our nearest rivals, Everton

In the previous 8 league games before that, we had 5 wins, 1 loss and 2 draws....which takes us back to the start of Sherwood's reign.

(I am 100% open to anyone disputing my characterisation of those above games, but that's honestly how I recall them.)




When I see clear evidence TS is the issue. I don't see that at the moment. He has certainly made mistakes: not starting Soldado after his Cardiff goal was a howler, and his Sagna ball-throw was really, really stupid. He's probably also made some subbing mistakes too that people can remind me about.

But on the pitch? My abiding memory of last night will be Bentaleb (AVB's favourite, right?) bossing the midfield, Chadli doing almost as well, Soldado botching chances that would have taken us through, then impact subs Eriksen and Kane almost taking us home. Benfica? Can't remember much other than some show-boating early doors and a goal from 1 of their 3 shots on target all night (we had 5 on target). On top of which, a back 5 that had NEVER played together looking exceptionally well drilled and hardly putting a foot wrong against a scary attack. In hindsight, our overall shape looked really well thought-through and balanced.

How much credit is TS getting? Zero. Not a whiff. People have become totally blinded by this freakish hatred of the guy, the likes of which I can't recall for any previous manager. It is so bitter and so personalised it's incredible.

Great post.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yeah...we could have got Moutinho had we not dingdonged around. That much is pretty obvious.

Hulk according to Castles was willing to take a wage cut to join us.

But these are just the ones we know about, I'm pretty sure that AVB's philosophy was to want a few top class 'game winners' rather than a bloated squad that he would need to rotate and keep happy. In the end that committee meant he couldn't function to his potential, meaning we either screwed up in backing him or we screwed up in hiring him in the first place.

But I just think saying 'anyone should have known how Levy works', knowing that how he works is searching for 'deals' rather than backing the manager with who he really wants isn't really useful. Just because that's 'how he works' it doesn't mean it will ever lead to us achieving the objectives he seems to have.

Not obvious at all, I'm afraid. He prevaricated and ended up at Monaco on double wages. Not certain at all that he would have come here and more likely used us as a stalking horse.

Saying Hulk would have taken a pay cut to come here is just not credible in my book.

I still believe that it could only have been AVB who "insisted " we go balls out for Soldado as he was so patently NOT a typical Levy buy.
 
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Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So...imagine if TS is given a budget and a green light to identify transfer targets this summer: who do you think he'll be asking Levy to buy?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

So...imagine if TS is given a budget and a green light to identify transfer targets this summer: who do you think he'll be asking Levy to buy?

Top priorities are a target man centre forward and left back. they have been the same all season and only increased when Rose got injured and Defoe left. Benteke and that Chilian left back for starters. Then a fast strong tall centre half and a goal scoring winger. Either of yesterday's centre halves would do - preferably both. That flying Dnipro winger would be good.

We fund it by a massive clear out.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Top priorities are a target man centre forward and left back. they have been the same all season and only increased when Rose got injured and Defoe left. Benteke and that Chilian left back for starters. Then a fast strong tall centre half and a goal scoring winger. Either of yesterday's centre halves would do - preferably both. That flying Dnipro winger would be good.

We fund it by a massive clear out.

Has TS indicated that this is what he'd be looking at or are you just saying what you hope he'd be doing?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Has TS indicated that this is what he'd be looking at or are you just saying what you hope he'd be doing?

Those are just my hopes for the close season. Haven't heard who or what TS has identified in terms of target positions and players.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not obvious at all, I'm afraid. He prevaricated and ended up at Monaco on double wages. Not certain at all that he would have come here and more likely used us as a stalking horse.

Saying Hulk would have taken a pay cut to come here is just not credible in my book.

I still believe that it could only have been AVB who "insisted " we go balls out for Soldado as he was so patently NOT a typical Levy buy.

Yeah I agree, Soldado probably was an AVB buy.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

When I see clear evidence TS is the issue. I don't see that at the moment. He has certainly made mistakes: not starting Soldado after his Cardiff goal was a howler, and his Sagna ball-throw was really, really stupid. He's probably also made some subbing mistakes too that people can remind me about.

But on the pitch? My abiding memory of last night will be Bentaleb (AVB's favourite, right?) bossing the midfield, Chadli doing almost as well, Soldado botching chances that would have taken us through, then impact subs Eriksen and Kane almost taking us home. Benfica? Can't remember much other than some show-boating early doors and a goal from 1 of their 3 shots on target all night (we had 5 on target). On top of which, a back 5 that had NEVER played together looking exceptionally well drilled and hardly putting a foot wrong against a scary attack. In hindsight, our overall shape looked really well thought-through and balanced.

How much credit is TS getting? Zero. Not a whiff. People have become totally blinded by this freakish hatred of the guy, the likes of which I can't recall for any previous manager. It is so bitter and so personalised it's incredible.

so he should get credit for a completely toothless performance for 70 minutes, +10 minutes where the team actually looked like they gave a ****, then we shot ourselves in the foot. And why is Eriksen an impact sub? really do we have any player that can do his role?

Credit for actually getting a draw to Benfica (they are not ****ing Real/Barca/PSG) after they handed our ass to us in our own ground ... is that the extent of our ambition now?
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Not obvious at all, I'm afraid. He prevaricated and ended up at Monaco on double wages. Not certain at all that he would have come here and more likely used us as a stalking horse.

Saying Hulk would have taken a pay cut to come here is just not credible in my book.

I still believe that it could only have been AVB who "insisted " we go balls out for Soldado as he was so patently NOT a typical Levy buy.

It was a year long play to use us as a stalking horse if that's what he did.

Unless...I do wonder how much of what we see our club do is just posturing for the fans to create the image of a big club. That story the other day had me thinking. How Levy acts like a big club by sacking managers for under achievement because he knows that we can always pretty much get to a best of the rest position and sustain that. I'm sure he probably does it with transfer deals as well. So much we probably thought could happen never has a chance I bet.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

BOL you had absolutely no problem with Levy or the board at the beginning of the season, you had absolutely no problem with our signings and claimed they were good enough for a title challenge. Now AVB has failed you are now throwing all the blame on the 'evil' board and now you claim AVB wanted less signings. Why didn't you once claim this whilst on our good run earlier in the season?

I think you're desperate tbh. You read a AVB's autobiography and bought into his philosophy but you became confused when the reality of it wasn't as attractive as you envisioned. You start asking yourself ' wow this is so so bad there must be a reason for this' then you claim he's making us defensively solid and he's starting from the backline up. We then start conceding left, right and centre and you're thinking 'jesus wtf is this but youre sooooo brainwashed by the book you read you start looking for others to blame. You become desperate and start blaming things you previously praised, you panic, you don't think rationally.

Your post yesterday was laughable and verging on bizarre.
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

Yeah...we could have got Moutinho had we not dingdonged around. That much is pretty obvious.

Hulk according to Castles was willing to take a wage cut to join us.

But these are just the ones we know about, I'm pretty sure that AVB's philosophy was to want a few top class 'game winners' rather than a bloated squad that he would need to rotate and keep happy. In the end that committee meant he couldn't function to his potential, meaning we either screwed up in backing him or we screwed up in hiring him in the first place.

But I just think saying 'anyone should have known how Levy works', knowing that how he works is searching for 'deals' rather than backing the manager with who he really wants isn't really useful. Just because that's 'how he works' it doesn't mean it will ever lead to us achieving the objectives he seems to have.

WE didn't dingdong around. We had a deal on the table with Porto that was supposedly acceptable to both parties, but a third party owner came in from nowhere at the last minute and put his demands on the table. Moutinho probably could have pushed through the deal if he'd have demanded to join Spurs, but the moment he boarded the team plane with Porto to fly out for their game, he pretty much gave the "i'm meh about the whole situation and fine if I stay at Porto" message and we were in a losing situation with time running out. At that point Levy saw himself and the club being held to ransom for a player that wasn't that interested with little time to negotiate a deal and rightly in my opinion pulled the plug.

In the next summer window Moutinho got a double-your-money offer from Monaco. It was a complex and expensive deal for us to pull off, negotiating with a player that wasn't that bothered about coming, with a club that drives a hard price and is financially well off and complex third party ownership issues. Its interesting to note that after the deal collapsed, Porto spent the next year buying out Moutinho's third party owners, presumably smoothing the way for their big pay-day to go through without any hitches this time in the summer.

Hulk - forget what Castles says, Hulk might have taken a pay-cut, but I'm pretty sure he'd have had to be in the highest earners bracket along with Ade. Not to mention Zenit would have wanted a ridiculous transfer fee, probably well in excess of what we paid for Lamela, our current record signing. Chelsea have been linked with Hulk but haven't been willing to meet their asking price. That should tell you all you need to know. The over all package for Hulk would have blown what we did for Soldado and Lamela out the water, in terms of wages over the life of his contract and transfer fee, you'd probably be looking at a close to £500-600m deal! No chance!

Willian - the club did everything they could to get him. He stalled us and got his club president to badger Abramovich into doing the deal. Moutinho is willing to do deals to prevent rivals from strengthening so it suited them all round. Nothing we could have done, he was never coming to us, no matter how close it might have seemed to get.

Villa - Atletico were always in the driving seat with this. We did all we could again, but they were a better proposition for him on all counts and that's been proven by their season challenging Barca & Real's dominance, compared to ours. Again, he was just never coming.

Coentrao - Again, he just wasn't interested.

The reality is for us, until we get the stadium, the revenues and naming right deals and push our annual turnover closer to the £200m a year bracket and beyond, we are shopping in the young up and coming players from South America/Eastern Europe/smaller English clubs/Dutch league etc bracket.

We're doing deals for your Vertonghens, Modrics, Bales, Chadlis. The occasional punt on your Soldados/Berbatovs/Pavs/VDV if they're available on a cheap deal if their club is in financial difficulty or there are question marks over the player. Very occasionally the situation might allow us to sign a Lloris if no top CL club is looking for a new goalkeeper at the time. Also occasionally, a deal might present itself for an older player that can add some quality and experience, like a Davids/Naybet/Gallas.

Lamela was our real punt with the Bale cash, but probably taken in the knowledge there would be plenty of big Italian clubs willing to take him back on a money-back offer due to his age and potential.

We just aren't in a position to realistically afford the players AVB or Ramos wanted. As I said, Redknapp was able to work with our transfer committee (minus a director of football).

It's like starting a new job and going to your new boss "this is the working conditions you're going to give me, I'm incapable of performing or working well unless these demands are met, if you don't give me what I want, i'm going to throw a big paddy and not do my job properly."
 
Re: Tim Sherwood - Head Coach

The reality is for us, until we get the stadium, the revenues and naming right deals and push our annual turnover closer to the £200m a year bracket and beyond, we are shopping in the young up and coming players from South America/Eastern Europe/smaller English clubs/Dutch league etc bracket.

Nail. On. Head.

Bale money or no bale money we won't pay over inflated wages as a result of this most big name players aren't willing to play for us.
 
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