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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Robspur12 said:
Stats mid season are relatively meaningless. Earlier you were also posting about how we were not close to relegation last season.

Of course stats wise both points you are making are correct. But if you analyse our season last time round, it was not just on us that we were safe, hell we didn't even make the 40 points, that is usually seen as the watermark for assuring PL safety. Ange calculated that the three teams below us were so poor that they were not going to get enough points to catch us. We lost 2 games to them, the 3 worst teams in the PL. As well as games to several teams around us and most top half teams. I would not have backed us last season if we were actually caught up in a relegation dog fight. That we didn't have to worry about being even competitive in the league from February onwards was part of the reason we could throw everything at the EL. And we played quite differently then to how Ange wanted to play.

And to compare a manager in his second season with a manager who has not even managed 1/2 a season is unfair imho.
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Just to say, I stated clearly I am not that much that specific comparison. The ONLY reason I thus went ahead with those stas was because I had been seeing others vaulting forth how much 'better off' we are now than we were last season. Me? I'd like to forget comparisons completely, however if people are going to state things which are statistically untrue, I think it is fair game.




Robspur12 said:
What I have noticed atm are players making lots of individual mistakes. I'm not sure the reason for that except that they look short of confidence and booing players during the game cannot help. A team who gave up being competitive in the league last season need a manager who can turn that around first and foremost. That's the ability to play two games competitively a week. Which they didn't have to do under Ange. TF started well but we have stalled recently. Again Not sure the reason for that.
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I can answer that. We have no real identity.



Robspur12 said:
Btw we are also missing Biss. Now, many on here don't rate him and will say he wasn't getting any games anyway. But last season, some of our best games were when he played. I remember particularly Liverpool carabao and the European games. He's currently not even an option.
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In fairness, Frank essentially parted ways with him already. I don't think he'd be playing right now anyway.


Robspur12 said:
What I do know is that we need some patience with TF. We are not in danger so there is time for that patience. We know this manager has done well elsewhere. Im disappointed atm but not close to thinking he should lose his job.
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This is a key question/point, and adds to the one I have held since August. Can TF develop beyond his comfort zone as a coach? Will he develop a style of play which utilizes passing and creativity through other parts of the pitch than the right (and occasionally left) hand side and crosses? The patience I personally would offer him is contingent on that being the case, because I really, really do not like the way we 'create' right now overall. And if patience will only end up delivering a more finite version of what he's doing right now, I'd have to ponder whether it is worth it, because I am not really interested in a 'better' version of 'crosses for creation' (sounds like a church group LOL)...I suppose we won't really know until the end of the season, albeit right now I am seeing nothing that gives me any indication he will develop us in a way I want to see us play, and let's face it, if he loses the next two games the pressure will be immense.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
If there was any serious danger of relegation we simply would not have thrown everything at the EL, and would not have finished 17th.

Also the reason we weren’t in any serious danger of relegation is because actually we were quite decent up to December.

And the point about the points difference from 18th being the marker of how close we were to relegation instead of the league position is absolutely correct. Just like if we finished 6th but 2 points from 1st, we’d be able to say we challenged for the title until the final day.
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For those of us who remember the dark days in the murky early 90s of having to win at Oldham midweek in late April to feel that we'd escape the drop (thank you Vinnie Samways), last season was nowhere close to being in real trouble...as you quite rightly said, had we been in real trouble, he would not have been able to stack it all on one chip.
 
I don't agree with booing, it's not in my nature.
Frank is our manager and I will support him, same as I have done with all our managers, even the ones I disliked.
However with our current record and performance level his "they're not proper fans" could easily be thrown back at him as "well you're not a proper manager".
 
thfcsteff said:
For those of us who remember the dark days in the murky early 90s of having to win at Oldham midweek in late April to feel that we'd escape the drop (thank you Vinnie Samways), last season was nowhere close to being in real trouble...as you quite rightly said, had we been in real trouble, he would not have been able to stack it all on one chip.
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We got lucky last year, had any of the teams below us put a run together we didn’t have a response in us.

The stacking on one chip was a ret con, it didn’t happen.
 
Baleforce said:
We got lucky last year, had any of the teams below us put a run together we didn’t have a response in us.

The stacking on one chip was a ret con, it didn’t happen.
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I totally agree. I hear so often that Ange put all his eggs in one basked and concentrated on winning the EL. Sorry, that is complete b0110cks. It was/is not in Ange's make up to deliberately lose games (remember the City game in his first season). This is something made up by Ange defenders to protect an incompetent fool
 
Baleforce said:
We got lucky last year, had any of the teams below us put a run together we didn’t have a response in us.

The stacking on one chip was a ret con, it didn’t happen.
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I agree only to disagree.

What I will say is that factually-speaking, we'll never know if you're right. What we do know -factually- is that we were never in danger of going down and we did win a trophy that we ended up aiming at. In fact we won it doing the very thing everyone said he wouldn't do, which was adapt to his circumstances in that run.

Out of interest, you MUST remember the horror of that season 93/94 and the impending sense of doom as we approached that midweek match at Oldham. It was scary!
 
veryoldspur said:
I totally agree. I hear so often that Ange put all his eggs in one basked and concentrated on winning the EL. Sorry, that is complete b0110cks. It was/is not in Ange's make up to deliberately lose games (remember the City game in his first season). This is something made up by Ange defenders to protect an incompetent fool
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...in your opinion.
I disagree.
Life moves on.
 
veryoldspur said:
I totally agree. I hear so often that Ange put all his eggs in one basked and concentrated on winning the EL. Sorry, that is complete b0110cks. It was/is not in Ange's make up to deliberately lose games (remember the City game in his first season). This is something made up by Ange defenders to protect an incompetent fool
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No one ever said he deliberately lost games or wanted to lose games. The facts are he played the likes of Romero and VDV (plus others) in the EL knockout games once they had returned from lengthy injuries then took them out of the lineup for league games. Unless you think on a normal league week he wouldn't play VDV, Romero and at times Porto and Udogie aswell then yes he put a clear focus on prioritising the EL.

That doesn't then mean finishing 17th was ok, but it's pretty obvious where the focus was once we actually got players back fit for the second half of the season. Funnily enough there were a good few posters on here saying we should prioritise the EL as it made most sense when our squad was decimated and clear would be easier to win that than get to CL via the league - not that it was the plan from day one of the season but with the hand we had been dealt as the weeks went on.

But for some weird reason some have an issue with accepting the club actually did the most logical thing.....
 
thfcsteff said:
I agree only to disagree.

What I will say is that factually-speaking, we'll never know if you're right. What we do know -factually- is that we were never in danger of going down and we did win a trophy that we ended up aiming at. In fact we won it doing the very thing everyone said he wouldn't do, which was adapt to his circumstances in that run.

Out of interest, you MUST remember the horror of that season 93/94 and the impending sense of doom as we approached that midweek match at Oldham. It was scary!
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All good.

I do remember that, and a few years later when Klinsmann came back.

It did feel pretty close to me last season, I was worried about it.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
And additionally, we’ve seen a lot more dissent from the players already this season which is concerning. The Porro / Bergval thing yesterday. Obviously Spence and Micky before. In 22 losses last season I never had any sense that the players weren’t united.
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Both those incidents were about 'the want' (or not) to show appreciation to the fans.

If the players weren't united, you'd be seeing a lot worse on the pitch.
 
Baleforce said:
All good.

I do remember that, and a few years later when Klinsmann came back.

It did feel pretty close to me last season, I was worried about it.
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Likewise mate, fair enough and it's a bad feeling for sure. Yes, Jurgen coming back to get us out of that ugly gross time was another knee wobbler!
 
I hate to say it but the only thing thats going to get the fans back onside is Poch coming back. I can’t see anything else pleasing the worst fan base in the country.
 
Mcfee said:
So you wouldn’t have backed last seasons team if they had got into a relegation dogfight (which never really looked like happening). Would you back the current team? I wouldn’t.
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Honestly -yes I would back this team. And that decision is based on TF having brought a team up from the Championship and keeping them there season after season. He knows what it takes to keep a team up. I genuinely believe, if he is given time, and some patience from the fan base he will get this right. Booing players especially during matches will not help.

Now I could be wrong of course as I don't have a crystal ball. But, based on what I know of him I am confident he will turn our form around so we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Robspur12 said:
Honestly -yes I would back this team. And that decision is based on TF having brought a team up from the Championship and keeping them there season after season. He knows what it takes to keep a team up. I genuinely believe, if he is given time, and some patience from the fan base he will get this right. Booing players especially during matches will not help.

Now I could be wrong of course as I don't have a crystal ball. But, based on what I know of him I am confident he will turn our form around so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Exactly this, people had made their mind up on Frank before he joined and are now drumming that now, the thing is, managers and players have to come from somewhere, this idea that good players and managers only come from good clubs of equal or better standing is just year 11 playground stuff. Its also snobbery. He did a ridiculously decent job at Brentford and that should be respected. We even have people trying to tear that record down now because Andrews is doing well there also. Its ridiculous
 
Grays_1890 said:
Exactly this, people had made their mind up on Frank before he joined and are now drumming that now, the thing is, managers and players have to come from somewhere, this idea that good players and managers only come from good clubs of equal or better standing is just year 11 playground stuff. It's also snobbery. He did a ridiculously decent job at Brentford and that should be respected. We even have people trying to tear that record down now because Andrews is doing well there also. Its ridiculous
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It seems like because you are very pro Frank you create your own reasons as to why people aren't happy with him. Considering a lot of people wanted Glasner and Ireola both from unfashionable clubs doesn't really go with what you're saying - like it or not it's the style of football that's the issue not being at Brentford, and there are people on here who wanted Frank at the beginning and are now voicing their concerns because of what's being served up and those concerns wouldn't be any different if he has come from Real Madrid or the ilk.

As for the Andrews thing, just because some Brentford fans were comfortable with Frank going because they trust the guy at the top and the infrastructure is not any sort of reflection on Frank and his past performance and just purely an indicator of how well run they are and how together the club and fans are - Not really sure where any tearing Franks record down is.....
 
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