Bedfordspurs
Gary Lineker
It was much quicker last season
But still super direct
I was looking for the stats on the passing but that came up
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Thomas Frank - Head Coach
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
But still super direct
I was looking for the stats on the passing but that came up
SteveAWOL
Gary Stevens
Brentford played as many through-balls as Liverpool last season whilst we completed 1 fewer than Wolves.
2nd) Damsgaard with 27
16th) Mbuemo with 13
18th)
22nd)
69th) Wissa and Ouatarra with 5
93rd)
120th)
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SteveAWOL
Gary Stevens
According to https://www.premierleague.com/en/stats/top/players the only completed through-balls for us this season have been from Bentancur, Porro, Sarr and Xavi with 1 each.
Hopefully when Solanke is back and Muani is match sharp that figure shall improve.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
I think this misses a wider point/discussion.
Who are we stylistically? Who does TF want us to be stylistically? Do we trust that his vision and what many of us want in that regard will align? Do we believe he can progress as a coach and manager in that regard?
He does obviously need (and deserve) more time; but those are the questions I think are worth asking and keeping an eye on.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
Milo just read that stat on the pod record and I was flabbergasted.
If you find you are a victim of satire, please let me know too.
BTW, this is from TF's first words as our manager.
"We'll play risk-taking, aggressive football. We want to play forward, to attack...ff you don't take risks, you also take risks".
Essentially, this season comes down to whether he will, indeed, take heed of his own words. We have established he deserves some time (this season at least) to do so. But we also need to remember that he said this - offered it as what he would do - yet the facts are not supporting the words as of right now.
I think (for now) I'll choose to read it as 'he was offering the PR line and saying what we wanted to hear', however I like him and believe him to be an honest man, so at some point this season, the above charactaristics have to show up.
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SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Paul Stalteri
Absolutely.
It makes me raise a wry eyebrow when I see things like ‘once we get Madders and Kulu back things will be better’ because a stat like this one, FOUR through balls all season…that clearly is not the players. That is very blatantly a result of the instruction they’ve been given.
I genuinely would love to understand why Frank has gone about things this way. It’s yielded points away from home but it so clearly would cause issues when he has to seize the initiative. What is the rationale?
tommysvr
Paul Stalteri
Copenhagen and Man Utd this week should be telling. You'd like to think the message was loud and clear after Chelsea. If we are just as boring in those 2 games, I'll start to worry a bit.
afsoc4life
Alf Ramsey
How many have we attempted?
Gazza Dazzla
Jimmy McCormick
Thanks, so a lack of through balls is not Frank’s MO then, his Brentford side last season were pretty much in line with the rest of the league at it and “better” if that’s the right word, than Spurs.
Edit: and the 2 highest Spurs players from last season on through balls have been out all season.
Good to get some context. 4 all season is still crazy low though, not denying it shouldn’t be higher.
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Good to see this stat over a decent period of time
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braineclipse
Garth Crooks
Really good pod mate, as always. That's to all three of you.
The next couple of weeks will be interesting. I think in times like these you see a lot of what a manager is about. My gut feeling is that he'll double down on defensive solidity, that's my impression of what he did at Brentford when they struggled at least. Maybe that's the path to go too, with the injuries we have, the fixture list and the issues that will arise if we now try to play more expansive football having not really been trying that much for a quarter of a season.
But yeah, there has to be improvements in our way of playing at some point. We can hope that Solanke and Kulusevski will make a difference I guess, and to some extent they probably will at some point.
Maybe you would like to have a go to make a proper CF out of Richarlison - because Conte, Ange and now Frank have tried without any success.
Bergvall and Sarr were both starters yesterday. As for Xavi and his "creative option"... he has played him left wing, as a 10 and also in free role - he's been crap in all three positions. Pray tell us... how do you suggest he gets "the best out of him"?
This is a team which - other than Kudus - finished just one position higher than relegation last year and lost its only world class player.
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thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
Thanks mate, much appreciated
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
You offered a prayer, let me offer you a 'tell'...set the guy up to succeed by making sure he plays in a system where there are always available runners and options. Have you noticed that we currently have so many players behind the ball that when he receives it, he usually has no creative place to go with it? As for the man management, lets hope that he is telling Xavi to start always making that first movement forwards, try to progress or at least win free-kicks, and generally make a presence of himself as he finds his way. Another thing; against Newcash, he and Bergvall showed some moments working together, so how about playing Bergvall deeper so as he can be such a link? I love seeing Bergvall start, but why can't he play deeper with Pahlinha, why can't Pahlinha sit deep deep and allow Bergy to be the rover from deep, which would equally allow Sarr to be in that giant hole we create these days called the middle of the pitch?
It is bizarre! In Pahlinha we have a great 6 who should by rights should allow everyone else to be their progressive selves. Instead, we insist on always playing with extra security beside the security!!!
As for Richarlison, like it or not, he is generally recognised as a #9 and has often played as Brazil's starting 9 in the last several years. At the moment it is hard to evaluate any of our CFs or forwards because we have no real plan to get the ball to them other than 'the stables' route!
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
We finished that low last season in part because of the worst injury crisis I can remember and a very clear and conscious choice to deprioritise the league.
Compared to the start of last season we've added Kudus, Palhinha, Kolo Muani, Simons, Kinsky, Danso and Tel. As well as having seen Spence go from ready to be sold to a really good player, seen Gray and Bergvall step up to a good PL level at least.
Frank has seemingly made a conscious choice to focus on defending and set pieces. Sacrificing ball progression and attacking play in the process. We're seeing the result of that.
He's now getting lower on options with Porro looking exhausted, Gray being injured and Bergvall probably needing to sit out a couple of games after his concussion. As well as the Romero injury. But he's had options both with player selections and style of play all season so far.
He still has options. As we saw against Saudi Sportswashing Machine Palhinha can be quite comfortable on the ball when he has everyone ahead of him. So drop him deep in buildup, invert or push the full backs higher and wider. Have Porro, Spence/Udogie give us more players in the middle third being comfortable receiving under pressure, adding to Kudus/Simons/whoever.
We also know Bentancur is capable of playing a more expansive game than he has this season if instructed to.
But those things mean playing with risk. But could also mean giving players like Richarlison and Simons more of the service they need to play well.
Our only attacking player who is thriving is Kudus. Because he's able to receive the ball under heavy pressure, progress the ball, beat one or two defenders on his own with real regularity. If that's the standard for what attacking players have to do under Frank most attacking players will struggle, even really good one's.
Ah well, back to trying to not concede while hoping that we scrap in the first goal from a set piece or turnover. If that fails throw attacking players on and a CB up front hoof it and hope we score from the resulting chaos.
Maybe not many of our team would get into last years top 5, but they would easily get into the top 10 teams. There's no excuse for playing the style of football and negative football that we have used against bottom half teams.
Being in the top third is a false position. We've had a relatively easy start and the next few weeks are much harder and we'll start to see our true position by mid December.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
Everytime Super Kev goes over to the touchline to dry the ball off and wind up for another Delapped hurler, a small piece of me sheds a tear. That moment against Chelsea when one of his hurlers landed with Bentancur and he blew the chance? I think I'd almost have been embarrassed to cheer that goal; after decades of being spoilt by some incredible creativity at the Lane, we cannot have arrived at that being our clearest chance of a derby, and if we have, patience for a new manager not withstanding we cannot be quiet about it can we?
braineclipse
Garth Crooks
I think we agree.
I don't mind the long throws in themselves. But I do mind if I spend more time watching us prepare and set up and dry the ball off for a long throw than I do watching us play good attacking football.
I can't stand the hope being that we score from a set piece or long throw alone. We have to be more than Stoke of old with better players.
I quite like that we're better at set pieces, but hoping that an attacking move ends up with a corner because that seems to be our best way of actually creating something doesn't bring me joy.
