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This current teams vs Harry's 2011/2012

Goalkeepers: Friedel vs. Lloris : We have the best goalkeeper in the league in Lloris, and despite Friedel's general reliability in 11-12, there's something about Hugo's superhuman concentration levels and consistency that makes him stand out for me. So, our current goalkeeper is better than the one we had under Harry, though Friedel's continued presence provides a reassuring link.

Right back: Walker vs. Walker : As far as I can remember, Walker seemed to play better under Harry than he did last season under AVB. Maybe he was more confident, or maybe the right-sided Kaboul's magnificent form helped him out (as compared to our general lack of a defensive star last season save for Verts on the left), but he seems a fraction more unsure under AVB. So, for now, Harry had the better right-back.

Left back: BAE vs Rose : 2011-2012 BAE was probably the best left back I've seen in a Spurs shirt. Calm, collected, great defensively and a surprisingly effective threat in attack. Rose's slowly improving, but Disco Benny wins hands down for me. Harry had the better left-back.

Centre-backs: Kaboul, Gallas, Ledley, Daws vs. Daws, Chiriches, Verts and Kaboul : Kaboul was phenomenal in 11-12: blindingly quick, a titan in the air and great at organizing the back line. By contrast, he's played a grand total of one PL game under AVB. Our Kaboul loses out to Harry's Kaboul. Ledley had a great first half of the season, but faded badly in the second half. Our new Ledley (in playing style, at least), Jan, was consistent throughout, gliding around the field dispossessing players with ease and equally comfortable on the left or in the center. So, AVB's Jan was better than Harry's Ledley. Daws under Harry was a somewhat marginalized player in 11-12, whereas he's the bedrock of AVB's back line, forming an able partnership with Jan. So, AVB wins this one as well. And finally, we haven't seen anything of Chiriches yet, but equally Gallas had a very injury-hampered season in 11-12. So on that score, we'll chalk it up to a draw. So, overall, Harry had a better Kaboul, AVB has a better Daws and Verts was superior to 11-12 Ledley, while Chiriches vs Gallas is probably a draw. So, overall, AVB edges this one: he has the better CBs at present.

Right wing: Lennon, Bale, VDV and very occasionally Modric/ Kranjcar vs. Lennon, Lamela, Townsend : Lennon didn't do as well in 11-12 as he did in his halcyon days of 09-10, but equally, he never really impressed last season either, despite providing a great balance to the side when he did play, with the same going for this season. So, about the same. Lamela cuts inside, as did Bale in 11-12, but I'd wager Lamela will take a while to adapt to the pace and speed of the PL, and thus Bale on the right was marginally better for Harry when compared to Lamela's probable slow start. Townsend is a better right winger than both the oft-perspiring VDV and the centrally-inclined duo of Modric and Kranjcar. So, AVB wins that one. Overall, AVB has the better right midfield.

Central/attacking midfield: Parker, Sandro, Modric, VDV, Livermore vs Sandro, Capoue, Eriksen, Holtby, Dembele and Paulinho: Don't get me wrong, for the first half of 2011-12 Parker was brilliant: an all action powerhouse bursting around getting stuck in. And Modric was consistent throughout the season, while VDV sparkled often enough to make his last year at the club memorable in its own right. Livermore and Sandro were both able back-ups as well. However, Sandro has now evolved into probably the best ball-winner in the PL, and a supporting CM cast of Eriksen, Capoue, Holtby, Dembele and Paulinho ****s all over any squad depth Harry could have claimed to possess. So, overall, AVB wins comfortably: he has the stronger central midfield.

Left wing: Bale, Kranjcar, Lennon vs. Chadli, Sigurdsson, sometimes Townsend, hopefully Eriksen: Bale was a ferociously good left-winger during the first bit of 2011-2012 (before all that 'he plays on the left' jazz), with Kranjcar and inverted Lennon somewhat decent back-ups. So far, Chadli hasn't shown that kind of breathtaking form (although he's been promising) and Siggy's done well, though admittedly against Norwich. Townsend's mainly stayed on the right and Eriksen's sole appearance has been in the CAM role. Still, all told that's a lot of good players vying for a spot, which again ****s all over what Harry had as cover, although he didn't help himself by ostracising and then banishing Pienaar. So, we don't have the stardust now that we did when Bale played on the left, but we have a ton of cover for that position: overall, a draw between AVB and Harry.

Strikers: Ade, Defoe, Pav, Saha vs. Soldado, Ade, Defoe: Ade was phenomenal in 2011-2012. Our version is a terrible, terrible imitation by comparison. Defoe is two years older and a wee bit slower (albeit bulkier), while Soldado's shown movement and instincts good enough to place him miles above Pav and Saha. Unfortunately, that doesn't quite make up for Harry's Ade and Defoe being better than AVB's Ade and Defoe, so it probably swings Harry's way: he had the better strikers.

Overall, this 2013-2014 side has a better goalkeeper, better centre-backs, better right wingers, and way better central midfielders. Harry's side had the better right-back, left-back, and strikers, with the left wingers of the 11-12 and 13-14 vintages having to settle for a draw.

Considering that in total this means AVB has a better squad than the one that finished fourth with 69 points in 11-12 (more quality in more areas), expecting us to at least surpass that 69-point mark is the bare minimum, with surpassing the 72 points we garnered last season being a highly desirable target, and finishing fourth or above a desirable outcome. AVB doesn't have many excuses given this summer: I trust he'll deliver.
 
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Right now, 11-12 side just about edges it for me. We had a settled 11 playing to a RIDICULOUS level with certain individuals on top form (Bale, Modric, Kaboul, Ade, VDV) - certainly for the first half of the season.

Ask me again halfway or at the end of the season, and I think AVB's 13-14 team will beat Arry's 11-12 side though, as I think we're gonna grow into something immense over the coming weeks and our X-Factor players (particularly Eriksen & Lamela) will start to make a real impact.

Squad-wise it is obviously no contest... 13-14 wins by miles.
 
Can someone add the ages to this lot please, seemed like a seriously young team at the weekend

..............LLoris
Walker...Kaboul...Vertonghen...Rose
..........Paulinho......Dembele
Townsend.....Eriksen..........Sigg
................Soldado

And then some young subs:
Lamela
Chiriches
Chadli
Naughton
Holtby
Sandro
Capoue
 
Can someone add the ages to this lot please, seemed like a seriously young team at the weekend

..............LLoris
Walker...Kaboul...Vertonghen...Rose
..........Paulinho......Dembele
Townsend.....Eriksen..........Sigg
................Soldado

And then some young subs:
Lamela
Chiriches
Chadli
Naughton
Holtby
Sandro
Capoue

Can't be bothered checking all of them, but I think I'm right in saying that Soldado at 28 and Kaboul at 27 are the oldest of that bunch. Meaning that 5 years down the line at least all the other 9 of those in that starting line-up will still be playing at the top of their game and are likely to have improved from where they are now. Of course there's a lot of young talent and ability in those subs you list and 2-3 of them will be starters for sure.

If we can keep these players improving and not lose too many of them we'll be in a great situation where we can focus on strengthening with top class players in a very limited number of positions in the transfer market each season.

Compared to the 11/12 Redknapp team there's a significant change in age, but I think we're also younger than most of the other top teams too.
 
2 seasons ago we have had a starting 11 of

Friedel
Walker
Dawson/Kaboul
King
BAE
Lennon
Parker
Modric
Bale
VDV
ADE


Was that as good as it gets - as some posters said at the time "a golden age" for spurs?

or can the current team be as good?

LLoris
Walker
Dawson/Kaboul
Vertonghen
Rose
Lennon/Townsend
Paulinho
Dembele
Sigg
Eriksen
Lamela
Soldado

The team with 12 players has an obvious advantage
 
Goalkeepers: Friedel vs. Lloris : We have the best goalkeeper in the league in Lloris, and despite Friedel's general reliability in 11-12, there's something about Hugo's superhuman concentration levels and consistency that makes him stand out for me. So, our current goalkeeper is better than the one we had under Harry, though Friedel's continued presence provides a reassuring link.

Right back: Walker vs. Walker : As far as I can remember, Walker seemed to play better under Harry than he did last season under AVB. Maybe he was more confident, or maybe the right-sided Kaboul's magnificent form helped him out (as compared to our general lack of a defensive star last season save for Verts on the left), but he seems a fraction more unsure under AVB. So, for now, Harry had the better right-back.

Left back: BAE vs Rose : 2011-2012 BAE was probably the best left back I've seen in a Spurs shirt. Calm, collected, great defensively and a surprisingly effective threat in attack. Rose's slowly improving, but Disco Benny wins hands down for me. Harry had the better left-back.

Centre-backs: Kaboul, Gallas, Ledley, Daws vs. Daws, Chiriches, Verts and Kaboul : Kaboul was phenomenal in 11-12: blindingly quick, a titan in the air and great at organizing the back line. By contrast, he's played a grand total of one PL game under AVB. Our Kaboul loses out to Harry's Kaboul. Ledley had a great first half of the season, but faded badly in the second half. Our new Ledley (in playing style, at least), Jan, was consistent throughout, gliding around the field dispossessing players with ease and equally comfortable on the left or in the center. So, AVB's Jan was better than Harry's Ledley. Daws under Harry was a somewhat marginalized player in 11-12, whereas he's the bedrock of AVB's back line, forming an able partnership with Jan. So, AVB wins this one as well. And finally, we haven't seen anything of Chiriches yet, but equally Gallas had a very injury-hampered season in 11-12. So on that score, we'll chalk it up to a draw. So, overall, Harry had a better Kaboul, AVB has a better Daws and Verts was superior to 11-12 Ledley, while Chiriches vs Gallas is probably a draw. So, overall, AVB edges this one: he has the better CBs at present.

Right wing: Lennon, Bale, VDV and very occasionally Modric/ Kranjcar vs. Lennon, Lamela, Townsend : Lennon didn't do as well in 11-12 as he did in his halcyon days of 09-10, but equally, he never really impressed last season either, despite providing a great balance to the side when he did play, with the same going for this season. So, about the same. Lamela cuts inside, as did Bale in 11-12, but I'd wager Lamela will take a while to adapt to the pace and speed of the PL, and thus Bale on the right was marginally better for Harry when compared to Lamela's probable slow start. Townsend is a better right winger than both the oft-perspiring VDV and the centrally-inclined duo of Modric and Kranjcar. So, AVB wins that one. Overall, AVB has the better right midfield.

Central/attacking midfield: Parker, Sandro, Modric, VDV, Livermore vs Sandro, Capoue, Eriksen, Holtby, Dembele and Paulinho: Don't get me wrong, for the first half of 2011-12 Parker was brilliant: an all action powerhouse bursting around getting stuck in. And Modric was consistent throughout the season, while VDV sparkled often enough to make his last year at the club memorable in its own right. Livermore and Sandro were both able back-ups as well. However, Sandro has now evolved into probably the best ball-winner in the PL, and a supporting CM cast of Eriksen, Capoue, Holtby, Dembele and Paulinho ****s all over any squad depth Harry could have claimed to possess. So, overall, AVB wins comfortably: he has the stronger central midfield.

Left wing: Bale, Kranjcar, Lennon vs. Chadli, Sigurdsson, sometimes Townsend, hopefully Eriksen: Bale was a ferociously good left-winger during the first bit of 2011-2012 (before all that 'he plays on the left' jazz), with Kranjcar and inverted Lennon somewhat decent back-ups. So far, Chadli hasn't shown that kind of breathtaking form (although he's been promising) and Siggy's done well, though admittedly against Norwich. Townsend's mainly stayed on the right and Eriksen's sole appearance has been in the CAM role. Still, all told that's a lot of good players vying for a spot, which again ****s all over what Harry had as cover, although he didn't help himself by ostracising and then banishing Pienaar. So, we don't have the stardust now that we did when Bale played on the left, but we have a ton of cover for that position: overall, a draw between AVB and Harry.

Strikers: Ade, Defoe, Pav, Saha vs. Soldado, Ade, Defoe: Ade was phenomenal in 2011-2012. Our version is a terrible, terrible imitation by comparison. Defoe is two years older and a wee bit slower (albeit bulkier), while Soldado's shown movement and instincts good enough to place him miles above Pav and Saha. Unfortunately, that doesn't quite make up for Harry's Ade and Defoe being better than AVB's Ade and Defoe, so it probably swings Harry's way: he had the better strikers.

Overall, this 2013-2014 side has a better goalkeeper, better centre-backs, better right wingers, and way better central midfielders. Harry's side had the better right-back, left-back, and strikers, with the left wingers of the 11-12 and 13-14 vintages having to settle for a draw.

Considering that in total this means AVB has a better squad than the one that finished fourth with 69 points in 11-12 (more quality in more areas), expecting us to at least surpass that 69-point mark is the bare minimum, with surpassing the 72 points we garnered last season being a highly desirable target, and finishing fourth or above a desirable outcome. AVB doesn't have many excuses given this summer: I trust he'll deliver.

Do we really have the best goalkeeper in the league? Quick of his line and has been solid enough, but way too early to put him above Cech for one
 
Do we really have the best goalkeeper in the league? Quick of his line and has been solid enough, but way too early to put him above Cech for one

Would not agree that Townsend is better than Modric,Vdc or even Kranjcar were playing on the right.

Townsend is not a classy player at all as Livermore and Hudd were not. Sub standard players who would not get near ab Arsenal or Chelsea squad .
 
Do we really have the best goalkeeper in the league? Quick of his line and has been solid enough, but way too early to put him above Cech for one

That the only thing you can say is that it's too early to put him ahead of Cech says a lot about how good Lloris is.

Remember that despite being young he's not some untested goalie that's come up and done well for a season. He's got 50 caps for France, he's got plenty of CL experience with Lyon. I would be very surprised if he doesn't at least keep up performing at a similar level to where he's been so far.

Would not agree that Townsend is better than Modric,Vdc or even Kranjcar were playing on the right.

Townsend is not a classy player at all as Livermore and Hudd were not. Sub standard players who would not get near ab Arsenal or Chelsea squad .

Both Modric and Kranjcar were wasted on the right and offered relatively little.

You do understand the concept of developing players? Townsend just turned 22 this summer and has shown a lot of promise, how about giving him a season or two in our first team squad before writing him off? I don't keep track of what others say on here, but can you really say that you haven't been wrong in the past when writing off a young player like this?

I think he would get at least near the Arsenal squad by the way. Or have you forgotten about how many games they've played players like Gervinho and Ramsey?
 
Can someone add the ages to this lot please, seemed like a seriously young team at the weekend

LLoris (26)
Walker (23)
Kaboul (27)
Vertonghen (26)
Rose (23)
Paulinho (25)
Dembele (26)
Townsend (22)
Eriksen (21)
Sigg (24)
Soldado (28)

And then some young subs:
Lamela (21)
Chiriches (23)
Chadli (24)
Naughton (24)
Holtby (22)
Sandro (24)
Capoue (25)

271 years old total for the first team. 161 years old total for the bench.
 
That the only thing you can say is that it's too early to put him ahead of Cech says a lot about how good Lloris is.

Remember that despite being young he's not some untested goalie that's come up and done well for a season. He's got 50 caps for France, he's got plenty of CL experience with Lyon. I would be very surprised if he doesn't at least keep up performing at a similar level to where he's been so far.



Both Modric and Kranjcar were wasted on the right and offered relatively little.

You do understand the concept of developing players? Townsend just turned 22 this summer and has shown a lot of promise, how about giving him a season or two in our first team squad before writing him off? I don't keep track of what others say on here, but can you really say that you haven't been wrong in the past when writing off a young player like this?

I think he would get at least near the Arsenal squad by the way. Or have you forgotten about how many games they've played players like Gervinho and Ramsey?

22 is not that young, Lamela and Eriksen are younger. No I do not want to give him him a year or two in the squad. That would be to the detriment of the team.

Had all the same arguments about a hole host of players before, NONE of whom made it. O'hara,Turner , Ethrington, Livermore, even Hudd and many more.

I think Hoddle and Hazzard were last home grown attacking players to make it for us. That shows the chances of a genuine one coming through. The ones that have a chance, shine by 17/18/19 as Lamela and Eriksen have.

If anything Alex Pritchard is our best hope IMO. Carroll , Townsend and Livermore, definitely not for any club with real ambitions.
 
Even though we did qualify for champions league under Harry, we did finish with higher points last season under AVB...
Something to consider.
 
Yeah, Townsend wouldn't get near Arsenal's squad, just look at the quality they had on the bench at the weekend.

Fabianksi
Vermaelen
Monreal
Gnabry
Frimpong
Miyaichi
Akpom
 
Yeah, Townsend wouldn't get near Arsenal's squad, just look at the quality they had on the bench at the weekend.

Fabianksi
Vermaelen
Monreal
Gnabry
Frimpong
Miyaichi
Akpom

:ross: Can't believe they moved so many players on but are stuck with Frimpong.
 
22 is not that young, Lamela and Eriksen are younger. No I do not want to give him him a year or two in the squad. That would be to the detriment of the team.

Had all the same arguments about a hole host of players before, NONE of whom made it. O'hara,Turner , Ethrington, Livermore, even Hudd and many more.

I think Hoddle and Hazzard were last home grown attacking players to make it for us. That shows the chances of a genuine one coming through. The ones that have a chance, shine by 17/18/19 as Lamela and Eriksen have.

If anything Alex Pritchard is our best hope IMO. Carroll , Townsend and Livermore, definitely not for any club with real ambitions.

So, you're saying that you haven't ever been wrong in a situation like this in the past?

How about players like Cleverly that went on to be a very useful squad player for United? He wasn't exactly shining at 18...
 
Left back: BAE vs Rose : 2011-2012 BAE was probably the best left back I've seen in a Spurs shirt. Calm, collected, great defensively and a surprisingly effective threat in attack. Rose's slowly improving, but Disco Benny wins hands down for me. Harry had the better left-back.

Agree with that -although Chris Hughton runs him close in the best LB stakes. Disappointed BAE could not make it under AVB but he seemed to regress to "pre-redknapp BAE" with all the old problems of concentration and poor positioning. Rose has certainly earned the LB slot.
 
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