Rob
Peter Taylor
Yep
-
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The Ugly Truth
- Thread starter Lilywhite
- Start date
Yep
firefly
Ricardo Rocha
The team can't be complete crap when it sits in fifth place in the league. Neither is management too bad when you are fifth in the league with the sixth biggest budget.
The real truth is that Tottenham fans are extremely fickle. Two bad results and all looks gloomy. But in fact it isn't all that bad. Let's win the game on Sunday and/or get the stadium project going and the future will look a whole lot better.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
Grays_1890
Colin Calderwood
I think the obsession with 4th is creating an unhealthy culture of failure attached to every game and I think the team are finding it hard to find their own personality of play. I hate Liverpool but they have kind of torn up the targets in order to establish a style of play and the style comes first and as a result the performances have followed.
I also think we need to build a team around Eriksen
I also think we need to build a team around Eriksen
There are numerous problems at the club but most can be resolved, it's not a lost cause by any stretch of the imagination.
It might not feel like it but we have the base of a very good squad, we just need to dump the deadwood and get the right Manager and Coaches into the club to restore some confidence and pride.
Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Sandro, Lamela and Eriksen must stay and have a squad built around them.
Dembele, Paulinho, Bentaleb, Chiriches, Townsend and Holtby can stay as backup and supplement the first eleven.
Soldado, Ade, Lennon, Rose, Naughton, BAE, Sigg, Chadli, Capoue, Dawson, Fryers, Gomes, Friedel and Kaboul can all go.
What will actually happen is we'll buy another midfielder and have the same squad for 2014-15. ](*,)
It might not feel like it but we have the base of a very good squad, we just need to dump the deadwood and get the right Manager and Coaches into the club to restore some confidence and pride.
Lloris, Walker, Vertonghen, Sandro, Lamela and Eriksen must stay and have a squad built around them.
Dembele, Paulinho, Bentaleb, Chiriches, Townsend and Holtby can stay as backup and supplement the first eleven.
Soldado, Ade, Lennon, Rose, Naughton, BAE, Sigg, Chadli, Capoue, Dawson, Fryers, Gomes, Friedel and Kaboul can all go.
What will actually happen is we'll buy another midfielder and have the same squad for 2014-15. ](*,)
a spur from swansea
Naybet
We're fifth now,but who thinks we be the 'Saudi Sportswashing Machine' of next season.......we be the ones in the paper every other week with a cracked badge in the corner next season,a fallen giant(a very loose term used there).......in the top half flirting with the top 6 losing a few and winning the odd big game and ending up 8th /9th, meaning we are back to square one just before jol/santini reign started ten years ago.
It will only take time where a club like aston villa get there act together and start competing along with everton and even Saudi Sportswashing Machine if they appoint a decent manager and we struggling against these sides before long.....
It will only take time where a club like aston villa get there act together and start competing along with everton and even Saudi Sportswashing Machine if they appoint a decent manager and we struggling against these sides before long.....
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Top post I would rather we were like other sports team I am thinking cycling here where they get a group together some older some younger some talented some with huge potential and then they say in 3 or 4 seasons we hope to have a squad that can win stuff. I think England rugby team try to do this as well but I can not stand rugby so I am not sure if this is true.
Amen brother
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
I don't think people are right to say we spunked £100m. Almost all of that money is either recoverable or represents fair investment:
- Chadli, Capoue: We can still sell them back for what we paid for them, €7m each or whatever it was. A minor financial hit.
- Vlad, Lamela, Eriksen: Hopefully all have a future at Spurs and thus represent fair/normal investment. If they have to be sold, all 3 retain significant value...Eriksen might even be worth more now given we only paid £12m for him. And even poor Erik is still a £20m player at worst (his up-front fee mightn't have been much more than that.)
- Paulinho, Soldado: Somewhere in the middle - they might stay or they might go - but in either instance neither has lost much value if they are sold (assuming reports are correct and the Soldado up-front fee was only £13m +/-). Alternatively, they will stay and pay back their transfer fees in performance.
It's really not the money as much as it is the wasted season. No money can buy back another season of failure.
- Chadli, Capoue: We can still sell them back for what we paid for them, €7m each or whatever it was. A minor financial hit.
- Vlad, Lamela, Eriksen: Hopefully all have a future at Spurs and thus represent fair/normal investment. If they have to be sold, all 3 retain significant value...Eriksen might even be worth more now given we only paid £12m for him. And even poor Erik is still a £20m player at worst (his up-front fee mightn't have been much more than that.)
- Paulinho, Soldado: Somewhere in the middle - they might stay or they might go - but in either instance neither has lost much value if they are sold (assuming reports are correct and the Soldado up-front fee was only £13m +/-). Alternatively, they will stay and pay back their transfer fees in performance.
It's really not the money as much as it is the wasted season. No money can buy back another season of failure.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
Spurs are the perennial 'nearly club'. It's in our DNA, but it's a self-inflicted curse. Levy's financial imperatives trump everything else, so it's virtually guaranteed that, every time the level of expectation is ramped up again by the emergence of a Berbatov, Bale or Modrić, it must all come tumbling down when they are inevitably sold off. We're suddenly minus the player or players who have been making all the difference, causing all the buzz. We don't replace them because we can't, and we're back to square one again. A familiar enough tale.
This season is just a particularly egregious example, because of the scale of it in terms of the sheer amount of money frittered away on largely run-of-the-mill talent, plus the fact that it follows so soon after the heady days of our Champions' League excursion, when we were blessed with an array of glittering stars, Bale was the jewel in the crown, and all we really had to do was add that final piece or two to the jigsaw. It seemed we had actually turned the corner and were finally heading in the right direction; that we could keep improving year on year. Instead, here we are, and it's all turned out to be just another squandered opportunity.
It is what it is, though, and I don't think it'll improve dramatically any time soon. I'm afraid this squad has too many technically average players, and there's far too little football intelligence to go around. They forever seem to make the wrong decisions — turn the wrong way, play the wrong ball, or want too much time to think about it and simply play it too late. Or they do things on auto-pilot, with apparently no clue about what's going to be on the end of a move. Or just remain so static. How many times have we seen players fail to complete simple, 5-yard passes, because there's no real off-the-ball movement going on? Players standing there, allowing themselves to be blocked from receiving the ball, instead of trying to make an angle for a pass, so it cannons off the shins of the first defender. Basic, basic things. Ah, Jesus, I realise I'm getting a bit sick of it, tbh.
This season is just a particularly egregious example, because of the scale of it in terms of the sheer amount of money frittered away on largely run-of-the-mill talent, plus the fact that it follows so soon after the heady days of our Champions' League excursion, when we were blessed with an array of glittering stars, Bale was the jewel in the crown, and all we really had to do was add that final piece or two to the jigsaw. It seemed we had actually turned the corner and were finally heading in the right direction; that we could keep improving year on year. Instead, here we are, and it's all turned out to be just another squandered opportunity.
It is what it is, though, and I don't think it'll improve dramatically any time soon. I'm afraid this squad has too many technically average players, and there's far too little football intelligence to go around. They forever seem to make the wrong decisions — turn the wrong way, play the wrong ball, or want too much time to think about it and simply play it too late. Or they do things on auto-pilot, with apparently no clue about what's going to be on the end of a move. Or just remain so static. How many times have we seen players fail to complete simple, 5-yard passes, because there's no real off-the-ball movement going on? Players standing there, allowing themselves to be blocked from receiving the ball, instead of trying to make an angle for a pass, so it cannons off the shins of the first defender. Basic, basic things. Ah, Jesus, I realise I'm getting a bit sick of it, tbh.
I think the squad situation maybe even worse than the OP suggests:
Goalkeepers:
Lloris - massively overrated, panics the defence with constant needless rush-outs, makes massive balls-ups (such as the one with Vertonghen last night) but seems to get away with many due to reflexes and gets an easy ride due to reputation, but I'd prefer a steady pair of hands.
Freidel - steady, but too old now
Gomes - blimey! He's still here? He's actually as good as Lloris IMO its just that he's been labelled a clown by the media due to the same style ****-ups Lloris constantly gets away with.
Defenders
Dawson - passionate but limited, needs a lightning fast, sweeper type alongside him to get the best out of him and the last time we had that in the back-line was Bassong, when the Bassong/Dawson partnership got us CL football.
Kaboul - how can you rely on someone so injury prone? He plays, what 2 games a season? Need to get his wages off the bill and get someone that is going to be able to play at least half the games we want him to?
Vertonghen - another massively overrated player. His talent as a footballer is unquestionable, but I'm starting to see why he turned down Arsenal as Wenger wanted to use him in midfield. Wenger is many things, but he is IMO still a good judge of a player. Jan gets constantly done in defence and makes many many mistakes but doesn't get half the flack from the media and Spurs fans as he should. He should be playing left-back or defensive midfield, but doesn't want to and has a **** attitude, so get rid.
Chiriches - Has potential, he deserves a second season to assess properly. We looked far more secure defensively with him alongside Dawson, we've looked a complete shambles ironically since Vertonghen returned.
Right-backs - Walker - Ok, he is fast, but he is completely brain dead - that throw straight to Benfica on the edge of our box last night is typical of his many many brain farts that are still not being erradicated. Another who is vastly overrated and the more solid Naughton (when he is playing right-back) gets hammered for far, far less.
Naughton - lets face it this guy suffers from constantly being played left-back. Whenever he is played right-back, I honestly can't fault him too much, but I think he is a limited footballer, as an understudy to a decent right-back, i have no problems with him.
Left-backs - blimey lets not even go there. We have a mentally unhinged left-winger and a 19 year old kid to choose from.
Central midfield
Sandro - starting to be in the same boat as Kaboul, we have seemed to pin all our hopes on this guy the last two seasons, but he constantly lets us down by his absence, fitness wise. How can you rely on someone that barely plays and is constantly disrupting the team by being in and out of it all the time. Plus, i don't honestly think he is as good as people make out and constantly lunges in leaving us exposed. Come back, Tom Huddlestone, all is forgiven!
Capoue - did we even sign this guy? He started off promisingly, got injured, then seems to have been binned permanently by Sherwood. Who knows why, hasn't impressed in recent appearances, but that's hopefully due to rustiness and lack of confidence, maybe another season under a new manager will show us whether he's worth keeping
Paulinho - He literrally is the new Jenas, you hardly notice the guy in games and constantly plays sidewards, nothing balls, losees possession, often in dangerous places, constantly gives up on loose balls and throws his arms around, but does pop up wiht the odd goal out of nothing on occasions. Too often a passenger, what a waste of money.
Bentaleb - the guy is just a kid and does appear to have some talent, but he shouldn't have such responsibility thrust on him, its not his fault we've sold or loaned out any central midfielder we had who could pass the ball in the summer. We should develop him carefully in his best interests before making a final assessment on whether he's good enough.
Dembele - We missed him yesterday but he doesn't make the most of his talent. I'd keep him to see if a new manager can maximise his potential, but the guy seems to constantly play with the handbreak on. He literally could be as good as Yaya Toure, but there's just some kind of mental block there that prevents him from doing what he is capable of and running games from start to finish.
Attacking midfielders
Holtby - this guy is just what we need, he is talented, passionate, and hard working. What do we do? We friggin send him on loan to Fulham, i give up!
Eriksen - luckily we have this guy, the only shining light in this long, dark season, please stay and entertain us, nobody else looks like doing so!
Lamela - did we even sign this guy, or was it a dream?
Wingers
Lennon - why he is still at spurs i don't know, how has nobody at the club said that surely we'd be better off binning him off to another club, so that he can do his trick of knocking the ball back to the right back, setting off on his little flying run, setting up the full back when he gets on the ball, threatening to do something, before knocking it back to someone in a less threatening position, somwhere else
Townsend - this guy is the greedy kid at school that shot whenever he got the ball and ignored everyone else on the pitch - the guy has talent, so why aren't the coaches coaching it out of him?
Falque - at this rate he could be our most productive winger at hte club when he returns, how depressing
Chadli - see Lamela
Forwards
Ade - When he's hot, he's hot, but having to rely on this guy just makes me uncomfortable as i'd liken it to a girl going out with a partner with a history of violence but has been nice for a few months.
Soldado - The next Rebrov, Postiga, Pav in the Spurs expensive striker graveyard
Kane - hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Goalkeepers:
Lloris - massively overrated, panics the defence with constant needless rush-outs, makes massive balls-ups (such as the one with Vertonghen last night) but seems to get away with many due to reflexes and gets an easy ride due to reputation, but I'd prefer a steady pair of hands.
Freidel - steady, but too old now
Gomes - blimey! He's still here? He's actually as good as Lloris IMO its just that he's been labelled a clown by the media due to the same style ****-ups Lloris constantly gets away with.
Defenders
Dawson - passionate but limited, needs a lightning fast, sweeper type alongside him to get the best out of him and the last time we had that in the back-line was Bassong, when the Bassong/Dawson partnership got us CL football.
Kaboul - how can you rely on someone so injury prone? He plays, what 2 games a season? Need to get his wages off the bill and get someone that is going to be able to play at least half the games we want him to?
Vertonghen - another massively overrated player. His talent as a footballer is unquestionable, but I'm starting to see why he turned down Arsenal as Wenger wanted to use him in midfield. Wenger is many things, but he is IMO still a good judge of a player. Jan gets constantly done in defence and makes many many mistakes but doesn't get half the flack from the media and Spurs fans as he should. He should be playing left-back or defensive midfield, but doesn't want to and has a **** attitude, so get rid.
Chiriches - Has potential, he deserves a second season to assess properly. We looked far more secure defensively with him alongside Dawson, we've looked a complete shambles ironically since Vertonghen returned.
Right-backs - Walker - Ok, he is fast, but he is completely brain dead - that throw straight to Benfica on the edge of our box last night is typical of his many many brain farts that are still not being erradicated. Another who is vastly overrated and the more solid Naughton (when he is playing right-back) gets hammered for far, far less.
Naughton - lets face it this guy suffers from constantly being played left-back. Whenever he is played right-back, I honestly can't fault him too much, but I think he is a limited footballer, as an understudy to a decent right-back, i have no problems with him.
Left-backs - blimey lets not even go there. We have a mentally unhinged left-winger and a 19 year old kid to choose from.
Central midfield
Sandro - starting to be in the same boat as Kaboul, we have seemed to pin all our hopes on this guy the last two seasons, but he constantly lets us down by his absence, fitness wise. How can you rely on someone that barely plays and is constantly disrupting the team by being in and out of it all the time. Plus, i don't honestly think he is as good as people make out and constantly lunges in leaving us exposed. Come back, Tom Huddlestone, all is forgiven!
Capoue - did we even sign this guy? He started off promisingly, got injured, then seems to have been binned permanently by Sherwood. Who knows why, hasn't impressed in recent appearances, but that's hopefully due to rustiness and lack of confidence, maybe another season under a new manager will show us whether he's worth keeping
Paulinho - He literrally is the new Jenas, you hardly notice the guy in games and constantly plays sidewards, nothing balls, losees possession, often in dangerous places, constantly gives up on loose balls and throws his arms around, but does pop up wiht the odd goal out of nothing on occasions. Too often a passenger, what a waste of money.
Bentaleb - the guy is just a kid and does appear to have some talent, but he shouldn't have such responsibility thrust on him, its not his fault we've sold or loaned out any central midfielder we had who could pass the ball in the summer. We should develop him carefully in his best interests before making a final assessment on whether he's good enough.
Dembele - We missed him yesterday but he doesn't make the most of his talent. I'd keep him to see if a new manager can maximise his potential, but the guy seems to constantly play with the handbreak on. He literally could be as good as Yaya Toure, but there's just some kind of mental block there that prevents him from doing what he is capable of and running games from start to finish.
Attacking midfielders
Holtby - this guy is just what we need, he is talented, passionate, and hard working. What do we do? We friggin send him on loan to Fulham, i give up!
Eriksen - luckily we have this guy, the only shining light in this long, dark season, please stay and entertain us, nobody else looks like doing so!
Lamela - did we even sign this guy, or was it a dream?
Wingers
Lennon - why he is still at spurs i don't know, how has nobody at the club said that surely we'd be better off binning him off to another club, so that he can do his trick of knocking the ball back to the right back, setting off on his little flying run, setting up the full back when he gets on the ball, threatening to do something, before knocking it back to someone in a less threatening position, somwhere else
Townsend - this guy is the greedy kid at school that shot whenever he got the ball and ignored everyone else on the pitch - the guy has talent, so why aren't the coaches coaching it out of him?
Falque - at this rate he could be our most productive winger at hte club when he returns, how depressing
Chadli - see Lamela
Forwards
Ade - When he's hot, he's hot, but having to rely on this guy just makes me uncomfortable as i'd liken it to a girl going out with a partner with a history of violence but has been nice for a few months.
Soldado - The next Rebrov, Postiga, Pav in the Spurs expensive striker graveyard
Kane - hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Mr Gogolak
Radek Cerny
I wouldn't pass judgement on any of our new players at this stage. It took Bale three years to get anywhere near the first team. Modric's first season in England hardly set the world on fire, and he played in what passes for a settled side at Spurs.
Most of these guys played in weaker leagues before they came here. They had to adapt to new surroundings, two different managers and a team falling apart at the seams. I'd definitely give them all another year (including Soldado and Lamela), unless they really don't fit into the new (new) manager's system.
Most of these guys played in weaker leagues before they came here. They had to adapt to new surroundings, two different managers and a team falling apart at the seams. I'd definitely give them all another year (including Soldado and Lamela), unless they really don't fit into the new (new) manager's system.
Chachaboom
Stephane Dalmat
We were on the point of breaking through and we blew it. Or rather you blew it Mr Levy.
Levy should've either backed Harry in the transfer window when we were crying out for more firepower (he didn't) or having decided he didn't want Harry anymore then he should've made a far better managerial appointment than the 2009 Portugese X factor winner.
All too late now the chickens are coming home to roost....
Thing is I'd no longer trust Levy to knock up a pot noodle let alone make important decisions for the future of our club.
Either the right choices are made this summer or it's another ten or fifteen years of mid table Mable.
Levy should've either backed Harry in the transfer window when we were crying out for more firepower (he didn't) or having decided he didn't want Harry anymore then he should've made a far better managerial appointment than the 2009 Portugese X factor winner.
All too late now the chickens are coming home to roost....
Thing is I'd no longer trust Levy to knock up a pot noodle let alone make important decisions for the future of our club.
Either the right choices are made this summer or it's another ten or fifteen years of mid table Mable.
Have to say, I completely disagree
- Comparing to Carroll/Downing/Adam/Henderson is not accurate, 3 of those 4 are absolute garbage that will never hold a bench on a **** England side, we have full internationals who are proven on big stages with decent clubs.
- Lloris (honestly are we questioning this guys quality?), Vert, Kaboul, Walker, Eriksen, Sandro, Ade are all top tier PL players, Soldado/Paulinho/Lamela have shown their class elsewhere, Dembele/Dawson/Lennon are all good squad players.
Re the club in general
- Fiscally in good shape, long term view of on pitch also good, best consistent places in league and participation in Europe for decades.
My honest opinion
- Levy let a personal issue with Redknapp plus slightly unrealistic expectations push him into a wrong decision
- That has been amplified by making two poor managerial decisions post
It's not a lost cause, the fact that we have had two poor managers, played awful football and are actually still in top 6 with a great away record actually says a lot about the quality of players that people on this thread want to get rid off.
Solution
- Levy needs to get rid of TS now
- Pre-sign if possible an experienced manager, ask him to appoint a caretaker (maybe his #2), tell the players so they know they are playing for their futures
- Insist that we re-use most of our squad
- Back the manager with 2-3 first team signings that he wants
- Make a short term plan to win a trophy, 3 year plan for CL
- Comparing to Carroll/Downing/Adam/Henderson is not accurate, 3 of those 4 are absolute garbage that will never hold a bench on a **** England side, we have full internationals who are proven on big stages with decent clubs.
- Lloris (honestly are we questioning this guys quality?), Vert, Kaboul, Walker, Eriksen, Sandro, Ade are all top tier PL players, Soldado/Paulinho/Lamela have shown their class elsewhere, Dembele/Dawson/Lennon are all good squad players.
Re the club in general
- Fiscally in good shape, long term view of on pitch also good, best consistent places in league and participation in Europe for decades.
My honest opinion
- Levy let a personal issue with Redknapp plus slightly unrealistic expectations push him into a wrong decision
- That has been amplified by making two poor managerial decisions post
It's not a lost cause, the fact that we have had two poor managers, played awful football and are actually still in top 6 with a great away record actually says a lot about the quality of players that people on this thread want to get rid off.
Solution
- Levy needs to get rid of TS now
- Pre-sign if possible an experienced manager, ask him to appoint a caretaker (maybe his #2), tell the players so they know they are playing for their futures
- Insist that we re-use most of our squad
- Back the manager with 2-3 first team signings that he wants
- Make a short term plan to win a trophy, 3 year plan for CL
Superhudd
Simon Davies
I think the biggest problem isn't just ours.
When I look at Italian football from the 90's and what happened there from the turn of the century, teams basically were too scared to lose. Parked the bus which IMO killed Italian football.
I think the same is happening here, when a team like Chelsea and Liverpool both use the counter attack method of hoping the other team will make a mistake whilst holding two banks of players behind the ball when they don't have it, Benfica showed the same last night.
Why on earth are we thinking we are Arsenal or Barcelona I do not know. We do not have the players to play this current way.. (we have one in Eriksen) we certainly do not have the correct centre backs, what we do have is counter attack players though. We should switch immediately. Valencia played counter attack, Soldado was in his element with this type of play, what do we do, play a containment method keeping the opposition from having the football.
The reason many are in love with our champions league run is because this is how we played on the most part, difficult to beat, but electrifying moments of counter football that reverberated around world football as the team to watch, we were the team that had set about playing attacking with no fear instead of 20 players moving right to left and left to right in a slow no lose mentality that the champions league was becoming. That year we gave the champions league a spark.
This is what Liverpool and Chelsea are doing, they are being clever, have enough of those counter attack moments and it will mask over the dour ****e that way of playing gives. Lets play to our strengths once more.
When I look at Italian football from the 90's and what happened there from the turn of the century, teams basically were too scared to lose. Parked the bus which IMO killed Italian football.
I think the same is happening here, when a team like Chelsea and Liverpool both use the counter attack method of hoping the other team will make a mistake whilst holding two banks of players behind the ball when they don't have it, Benfica showed the same last night.
Why on earth are we thinking we are Arsenal or Barcelona I do not know. We do not have the players to play this current way.. (we have one in Eriksen) we certainly do not have the correct centre backs, what we do have is counter attack players though. We should switch immediately. Valencia played counter attack, Soldado was in his element with this type of play, what do we do, play a containment method keeping the opposition from having the football.
The reason many are in love with our champions league run is because this is how we played on the most part, difficult to beat, but electrifying moments of counter football that reverberated around world football as the team to watch, we were the team that had set about playing attacking with no fear instead of 20 players moving right to left and left to right in a slow no lose mentality that the champions league was becoming. That year we gave the champions league a spark.
This is what Liverpool and Chelsea are doing, they are being clever, have enough of those counter attack moments and it will mask over the dour ****e that way of playing gives. Lets play to our strengths once more.
Harry played a counter attack team, the problem is he had Bale/Lennon/Modric/VDV, 4 players who either were quick physically (Bale/Lennon) or quick mentally (Modric/VDV) at moving the ball.
Today we only really have Eriksen (still learning) & Lennon, a left side FB issue and a bunch of midfielders who don't recycle the ball fast enough and a team tactic that doesn't have us running off the ball.
You want a really bad indictment of TS as a coach, go watch yesterday's game again, look at when the back 4, Sandro have the ball and are looking up for a pass, and no one in front of them (midfield) is making runs, making space to collect the pass, so result -> pass back/sideways or long ball forward to Ade/Lennon ..
Superhudd
Simon Davies
Yeah the reason being we are part of that 20 players move slow to the right.. move slow to the left mentality that is sweeping the league so there is little to no space. We have to create bigger gaps by letting them have he ball, invite them onto us. I'd like to see Lennon, Townsend, Chadli and Lamela to maybe play in the old Bale/Lennon way. This will create bigger gaps to find players in.
I truly believe this is why both Chelsea and Liverpool are atop the league. Why Benfica have a great record this year. Why Arsenal are falling, even Barcelona are finding it hard compared to times past.
You win the ball, then bang five players fly.. lose the ball, bust a gut to maintain those two walls by getting back.. remember the other team is set in the slow motion 20 players moving to the left, 20 player moving to the right that the premiership is slowly turning into... just like Italian football.
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