rosenthal
Sebastien Bassong
Group stage? I can see him facing an angry press after friendlies against Norway and Belgium.
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The Official EURO 2012 thread
- Thread starter southstand1882
- Start date
Group stage? I can see him facing an angry press after friendlies against Norway and Belgium.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
The Belgian team on paper looks better than the English team. I'm not sure how well they play together but some rising stars in every position. Tough ask for Roy.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
I'd love Belgium to get a proper manager in and sort that team out, on paper they should be 4th or 5th best team Europe IMO.
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
I remember watching that Russian team and thinking they were awesome. But there was one player amongst them who I thought looked hopelessly short of his team mates. Yeah, him...
Spurs7891
Jermaine Jenas
I don't know who you refer to. But Pavly scored 3 goals, just 1 behind top scorer Villa and Arshavin was one of the best player in the tournament. And there were 4 Russian players named in the UEFA team of the tournament, including both Pavly and Arshavin !
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
I know what my eyes saw and it was 10 skilful and athletic players, and one donkey. This was before we signed him and I had any vested interest one way or the other.
Ed: And yeah, I'm talking about Pav!
I think a team of players made up of injured or players that weren't selected is better than a team made of players in the squad (especially with Rooney out for the first 2 games).
There are various other names, but just off the top of my head:
Foster, Carson, Forster, Stockdale, Robinson.
Walker, Richards.
Smalling, King, Dawson, Jagellka, Caulker, Ferdinand. Carrager.
Warnock, Naughton, Gibbs.
Lennon, Dyer.
Wiltshere, Huddlestone, Carrick, Scholes, Parker?, Cleverly, Britton.
Adam Johnson, Scott Sinclair, Sturridge.
Crouch, Holt, Zamora, Bent.
(Parker's question mark is because I don't know if his injury will get better before the Euros... Although the same could be said of Rooney, aside from his injury being only a niggle.)
There are various other names, but just off the top of my head:
Foster, Carson, Forster, Stockdale, Robinson.
Walker, Richards.
Smalling, King, Dawson, Jagellka, Caulker, Ferdinand. Carrager.
Warnock, Naughton, Gibbs.
Lennon, Dyer.
Wiltshere, Huddlestone, Carrick, Scholes, Parker?, Cleverly, Britton.
Adam Johnson, Scott Sinclair, Sturridge.
Crouch, Holt, Zamora, Bent.
(Parker's question mark is because I don't know if his injury will get better before the Euros... Although the same could be said of Rooney, aside from his injury being only a niggle.)
Sandman
Dean Austin
I have change my mind on England, watching the English chelsea players excel at sitting back and getting lucky! I say we play ultra defensive and try to maximise our chances from corners etc and hit teams on the break. We dont have the players to take on the top nations, so about time we realised our position and play more like Greece and Norway do!
What are English players Strengths? Grit, determination, never say die attitudes, energy and fight!
Of course im not really serious
well maybe......
What are English players Strengths? Grit, determination, never say die attitudes, energy and fight!
Of course im not really serious
well maybe......
England will play 4-4-2 judging by this: http://www.uefa.com/trainingground/coaches/video/videoid=537341.html?autoplay=true#tg_formations
(This is mostly just an excuse to post that as I found Roy's views interesting, even though I fundamentally dislike ceding the midfield in most situations and thus can't agree with his 4-4-2 love.)
In fairness, this is a bit old, he mentions no team has played without a striker, but there are various examples of Man United, Roma, Arsenal and Barca all playing without strikers... If you want to go as far back as Hungary's legendary team and consider the false 9 to not be a true striker then you can list a bunch... It was also before teams stopped playing with wingers in recent years... Also, it totally discounts DMs when he moves his full backs forwards, so he leaves one back at all times, meaning this can't happen:
.
That said, I could listen to Roy talk about this stuff all day long. It may be very old, but it's nice to see how the England manager's mind works.
(This is mostly just an excuse to post that as I found Roy's views interesting, even though I fundamentally dislike ceding the midfield in most situations and thus can't agree with his 4-4-2 love.)
In fairness, this is a bit old, he mentions no team has played without a striker, but there are various examples of Man United, Roma, Arsenal and Barca all playing without strikers... If you want to go as far back as Hungary's legendary team and consider the false 9 to not be a true striker then you can list a bunch... It was also before teams stopped playing with wingers in recent years... Also, it totally discounts DMs when he moves his full backs forwards, so he leaves one back at all times, meaning this can't happen:
That said, I could listen to Roy talk about this stuff all day long. It may be very old, but it's nice to see how the England manager's mind works.
They are the best international team in the world, so play them like Barca... Who is the most likely to stop them?
We can look through them from front to back:
Llorente - Big tall centre forward, Barca don't have this.... Spain can hope a cross, corner or set piece finds gets headed in by Llorente, this is a major problem.
Silva, Iniesta, amazing players, not traditional wingers by any stretch of the imagination. Silva lives inside for City as City uses full backs to create width... Iniesta usually stays on the wing a bit more for Barca because they need the width on that side as Alves plays on the right... Iniesta is usually unmarked as a bonus.
Fabregas - With the form he's in, he actually looks like a weak link.... Assuming he plays like he did for Barca in the first third of the season, this is the more attacking of the three midfielders. Beware his goal threat, but we know all about Fabregas.
Xavi - One of the best players in the world, widely regarded as the best midfielder for the past few years. Passing machine.
Alonso - If the 2005 Champions League final and Mourinho's first game at Barca for Madrid tell you anything, it's that he had a lot of improving to do in order to perform DM duties without a true destroyer alongside him in the biggest games in the world. One of the best long passes in the world, possibly the best. The trademark Hudds/Scholes pinged ball to a winger is trademark Alonso and he does it better than anyone else in the world... His wingers aren't natural wingers though.
Ramos - Played amazingly well at CB for Madrid this year, but the loss of Puyol means he can't play RB.
Pique - Out of favour at Barca for much of this season, he's never quite the same without Puyol there to yell at him when he makes a mistake. He could play as a striker, a midfielder or a defender for so many teams, so his ability as a footballer is not to be sneezed at, but if you wanted to play him when he's out of form, now is the time.
Arbeloa - Like Ivanovic, he is a dying breed... A defensive full back... He can go forward, he tries, he is a good footballer.... But ahead of him on the right is Silva, so if they want width, what do they do? Send Arbeloa forward and hope for the best? Make Silva stay out wide?
Alba - Here my knowledge ends. Obviously I've watched him a few times this season, but against Real Madrid and Barca, teams play differently... I didn't watch many of Valencia's Europa League games and although I saw them in the Champions League a couple of times, I really can't say that I've paid enough attention to Alba to put together a solid, reliable understanding of how he plays...
I don't know how offensive he is compared to the type of full backs that give width to narrow sides and I don't know how tall he is or how well he tracks back... So I should pay more attention to clubs other than the 2 Spanish giants... Highlights shows never give any decent insight, so that's what I'll do for next year....
This is one of the few times I don't have a match to watch that'll give me some information to use. The point is, I'm assuming he's more offensively inclined than Arbeloa and will be forced to go forward as much as possible.... Iniesta could come inside more often if he's out there giving width, but I'd assume Alba is more disciplined than Alves for Barca...
Casillas - Just to finish this off by mentioning him. Awesome goalkeeper. Good with his feet, good at keeper sweeping, good at just about anything a goalkeeper can be good at. (Aside from penalties, I don't often see him take them, so I don't know. He's excellent at saving them though.)
So, back to my original point, which team is best at playing that team? The Netherlands tried in the World Cup, the "kick them up in the air" strategy watched over by Howard "Kung Fu Kicks get yellow cards" Webb.
Are the Dutch well suited to quick counter-attacking football?
Are Germany?
The amount of trial and error needed to play the Spain team has been reduced by the amount of teams working out how to play superior possession teams. The Real Madrid way is the most comfortable I've ever seen a team look against Pep Guardiola's Barca. There's the Chelsea way, which isn't something you'd expect Germany or the Netherlands to try, but you'd expect one of the weaker teams to try it.
This isn't just about Barca though, Bayern play the same style of football.... Dortmund beat them using the same type of tactics as Madrid used against Barca (although I didn't see any of those matches and am relying on match reports, which pretty much said what I just said
) ....The trend goes on, this year has not been the best for possession football. Emirates Marketing Project are the exception rather than the norm.
So we'll see one of the ultimate possession sides in a big international tournament, we'll see if possession football can win the day on the international stage... But what you're dealing with is largely a mish-mash of Real Madrid and Barca players. One Bilboa, one Emirates Marketing Project and one Valencia player finish the list.
The good news: Messi has been replaced by another striker.
The bad news: That tall striker is plan B. You can't afford to give Spain a million crosses, you can't afford to give them a million corners safe in the knowledge that they'll knock it short or try to find one of their short players against a massive giant CB. Giving them the wings completely free with time and space is dangerous now.
Overall, Messi out is good news, but you remove unpredictable, unplayable magic and replace it with the very thing everyone says Barca lack.
The general idea is to defend deep, ping a ball into a vacant full back position and counter. (Alves is usually the target when playing against Barca. Here I suppose it would be Alba, but if Arbeloa is missing, you can do the same there.)
Plan B: Set Pieces. Madrid and Chelsea employed these very well against Barca and Bayern.... This Spain team is taller and better equipped to deal with set pieces, but the Spanish don't really like defending set pieces. Bayern on the other hand were taller than Barca and didn't fare very well defending the single corner Chelsea got. Nonetheless, if you're against a possession based team, taking your chances is critical when you're the underdog.
I don't need to go over all the details, but that's pretty much the strategy for Barca, you can make adaptations considering Spain is not the same team as Barca, but I just wanted to outline the basic skills needed for a team to beat them. From that, someone else can decide if the Germans are better suited to it than the Dutch or whether there's a weaker side out there that can do it. (Likely.)
I just want to point out that although I used the words "defend deep", "counter-attack" and "set pieces", Real Madrid vs Barca at the Neu Camp and in the second leg of the King's Cup were performances that in my opinion saw Real Madrid play better than Barca, be arguably the more deserving team of victories in both matches and were no more anti football than Ali was anti boxing.
Chelsea against Barca was nothing like the way Real Madrid played. There's a huge difference between putting all your players in the box and hoping for the best and doing what Real Madrid did. However, for the less talented sides, the Chelsea option is the body on the line, ride your luck, it might just work option...
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I'll be slightly surprised if only one Bilbao player makes it into the Spain team, but that's the basic run down on the team you selected. 11 Men, flesh and bone, they can be beaten.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
This. It would be unreal to see Belgium put together the amount of talent they have and play to the best of their abilities at the international stage. Kompany, Vertonghen, Vermaelen, Courtois, Lukaku, Hazard, Witsel, Defour, Fellaini, de Bruyne etc.
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
I did not realise all were Belgian. Wow.
Seriously, the only Belgians I could have named you before reading that were Enzo Scifo, Nico Claesen and Hercule Poirot. Oh and Jean Claude Von Damme.
And Belgian buns.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Thing is. Germany RIPPED apart the World Cup. They smashed their groups playing the best football in the tournament. England was a "test" for them, and they smashed them 4-1.. they then went up against Argentina who many thought would get to the final after some impressive matches and Germany took care of them 4-0!!
If Mueller wasn't suspended for the semi's against Spain, I will argue they probably would have beat Spain and ended up beating Holland in an unbelievable final. Much better than the one we saw between Spain/Holland anyway.