*** The Official 26/27 Premier League Thread ***

[Zavod 311]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine crowd will get restless if they lose this one

 

[Zavod 311]

Man, these teams are brick

 

[paxtonwolf]

Man, these teams are brick

Not just me, nearly nodded off watching that 1st half.

 

[Rorschach]

Like watching last year's Spurs vs the previous years' Spurs.

 

[afsoc4life]

Jack Grealish should say goodbye to his career - Everton doing well without him. Hope he has humility enough to buckle down and change.

I have no sympathy for Saudi Sportswashing Machine ..

 

[afsoc4life]

Premier League has to clamp down on this rubbish. Deserved yellow but what followed afterwards - both sides should be knocked.

 

[revlis]

I'm in favour of impartiality and people being aware of their unconscious biases. That is both at the individual and company level. I'm also a fan of people trying to do things with the highest integrity in life. Villa and Sky wouldn't be the first 2 companies to have to discuss relationship challenges at the employee level.

For the record, I'm not a fan of grown men and so called role models spitting in the direction of little girls either.

Discuss it behind closed doors. Do it as adults. Don’t add to the stupidity of pundits by releasing stupid statements like “we will not let anyone halt our ascension in English and European football.”

Absolutely no clue what spitting at girls has to do with it, but it sounds like maybe that has some weight in your opinion of Jamie Carragher and this specific case with Villa.

 

[Muttley]

Discuss it behind closed doors. Do it as adults. Don’t add to the stupidity of pundits by releasing stupid statements like “we will not let anyone halt our ascension in English and European football.”

Absolutely no clue what spitting at girls has to do with it, but it sounds like maybe that has some weight in your opinion of Jamie Carragher and this specific case with Villa.

I have always been clear that Carragher should not have continued in his role after that incident. Doesn't matter how much he apologised, he unfortunately revealed his true character in that moment. That character should not be in one of the biggest jobs in football media. We need proper role models in these roles. That is my strong opinion.

As the BBC wrote, Villa's was a symbolic threat. Sometimes we need to do that in life as the best path to correction. That has happened with a massive climb down from Jamie. Villa do often take a combative stance with the media and I would have no problem with my club doing more of the same.

As the boys were saying on the pod this week about the Mateta incident, Alan Smith demonstrated some real bias against Spurs in his co-commentary. I would like Spurs to suggest that he doesn't commentate on our games in future. I've also met Alan Smith on one of my many England trips over the years. Top bloke and popular with the England fans who shared planes to away trips. However, Alan needs to manage his biases better, just like Carragher and Neville.

The Sky is red as they say.

 

[revlis]

I have always been clear that Carragher should not have continued in his role after that incident. Doesn't matter how much he apologised, he unfortunately revealed his true character in that moment. That character should not be in one of the biggest jobs in football media. We need proper role models in these roles. That is my strong opinion.

As the BBC wrote, Villa's was a symbolic threat. Sometimes we need to do that in life as the best path to correction. That has happened with a massive climb down from Jamie. Villa do often take a combative stance with the media and I would have no problem with my club doing more of the same.

As the boys were saying on the pod this week about the Mateta incident, Alan Smith demonstrated some real bias against Spurs in his co-commentary. I would like Spurs to suggest that he doesn't commentate on our games in future. I've also met Alan Smith on one of my many England trips over the years. Top bloke and popular with the England fans who shared planes to away trips. However, Alan needs to manage his biases better, just like Carragher and Neville.

The Sky is red as they say.

I dunno why you always add so much unrelated info to things? We’re talking about Aston Villa publicly putting pressure on Sky to censor their employee. Where on earth does Alan Smith come from?

All pundits have a right to talk absolute nonsense. Sounds to me like you should just turn it off.

 

[Muttley]

I dunno why you always add so much unrelated info to things? We’re talking about Aston Villa publicly putting pressure on Sky to censor their employee. Where on earth does Alan Smith come from?

All pundits have a right to talk absolute nonsense. Sounds to me like you should just turn it off.

I didn't even have it on. I read about the Carragher vs Villa on this thread and only then goog;ed it. I barely watch Sky for the reasons I gave above.

Actually, apart from being disagreeable with me (lol, for a change) I'm not sure you've actually made a point at all.

 

[revlis]

I didn't even have it on. I read about the Carragher vs Villa on this thread and only then goog;ed it. I barely watch Sky for the reasons I gave above.

Actually, apart from being disagreeable with me (lol, for a change) I'm not sure you've actually made a point at all.

How on earth have you missed my point? I think it's embarrassing that a football club comes out and threatens an individual pundit for comments that really weren't that bad. Nothing good comes of that.

The idea that Spurs would try and dictate which commentators should commentate on their matches? Absolutely laughable. Genuinely embarrassing. How precious are you?

 

[Muttley]

How on earth have you missed my point? I think it's embarrassing that a football club comes out and threatens an individual pundit for comments that really weren't that bad. Nothing good comes of that

Well something good clealry did, because Carragher saw the error of his ways and climbed down through an apology.

Not sure about your "precious" comment to be fair. Just another example of playing the man not the ball again. Not the first and won't be the last.

Most people would know me as not precious. I do like to be healthily disruptive and definitely would be with Sky given half the chance. Same with Howard Webb's lot.

 

[revlis]

Well something good clealry did, because Carragher saw the error of his ways and climbed down through an apology.

Not sure about your "precious" comment to be fair. Just another example of playing the man not the ball again. Not the first and won't be the last.

Most people would know me as not precious. I do like to be healthily disruptive and definitely would be with Sky given half the chance. Same with Howard Webb's lot.

You want Spurs to suggest to Sky that Alan Smith doesn't commentate on our games because you don't like what he says about the club. Is that not being precious?

 

[Muttley]

You want Spurs to suggest to Sky that Alan Smith doesn't commentate on our games because you don't like what he says about the club. Is that not being precious?

No it's being disruptive. I want us to throw that bomb into Sky and drive to get some impartiality.

I think it should be a prerequisite of any commentator or pundit at these broadcasting companies that they are fully versed in the laws of the game and they use as the basis of their commentary. I expect nothing but impartiality. There are thousands of examples of where we don't see this. I've stopped caring whether their biases are conscious or unconscious to be fair. It's up to them to own that and do something about it.

What's happening is a lot of the bad things that are happening in the game are getting normalised as being OK, and one big root cause is the commentary and pundit teams.

Do you get to experience our commentrary teams in your part of the world or do have a different setup?

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

No it's being disruptive. I want us to throw that bomb into Sky and drive to get some impartiality.

I think it should be a prerequisite of any commentator or pundit at these broadcasting companies that they are fully versed in the laws of the game and they use as the basis of their commentary. I expect nothing but impartiality. There are thousands of examples of where we don't see this. I've stopped caring whether their biases are conscious or unconscious to be fair. It's up to them to own that and do something about it.

What's happening is a lot of the bad things that are happening in the game are getting normalised as being OK, and one big root cause is the commentary and pundit teams.

Do you get to experience our commentrary teams in your part of the world or do have a different setup?

Its unfortunate but it's a fault in most of us that we have a bias for or against some teams but you would expect pundits and commentators to be professional enough to be able to control theirs.
Back when regular televised football started Kenneth Wolstenholme use to have an orgasm when he commentated on United, the only pundit I can remember who seemed to be unbias and condemn the faults in the game was Jimmy Hill.
Sky have done many good things in their coverage of the game but they have created their talking heads to fill time in the schedules and the pundits opinions are given far too much creedence.

 

[revlis]

No it's being disruptive. I want us to throw that bomb into Sky and drive to get some impartiality.

I think it should be a prerequisite of any commentator or pundit at these broadcasting companies that they are fully versed in the laws of the game and they use as the basis of their commentary. I expect nothing but impartiality. There are thousands of examples of where we don't see this. I've stopped caring whether their biases are conscious or unconscious to be fair. It's up to them to own that and do something about it.

What's happening is a lot of the bad things that are happening in the game are getting normalised as being OK, and one big root cause is the commentary and pundit teams.

Do you get to experience our commentrary teams in your part of the world or do have a different setup?

We have commentators that are just as brick and just as biased. It’s just human nature. I agree, an ex-arsenal player shouldn’t commentate on Spurs. But the idea that the club should try and dictate that? No chance. Just like Aston Villa shouldn’t have any sway over what Jamie Carragher is and isn’t allowed to say.

 

[Muttley]

We have commentators that are just as brick and just as biased. It’s just human nature. I agree, an ex-arsenal player shouldn’t commentate on Spurs. But the idea that the club should try and dictate that? No chance. Just like Aston Villa shouldn’t have any sway over what Jamie Carragher is and isn’t allowed to say.

I think this is where I see things very differently. I often ask people what is the PRODUCT in football. I know you hate this, but I'm going tangential here.

In it's most basic form the product 22 guys or gals, a ball and 2 goalposts (or jumpers). Then it was clear that those 22 guys or gals couldn't uphold the laws of the game on their own so a referee was introduced. Fast forward to where we are today and that particular system is completely broken because that referee ignores the laws of the game. So we have all the nonsense that ensues because of that.

Nowadays the product has many accessories and the TV packages is one of the biggest. You may get to the stage where some fans aren't even interested anymore in the 22 guys or gals and the football. They might be more interested in Neville and Carragher having a coffee and doing a podcast. Each to their own but not for me. It's the beautiful game I love.

My challenge is when the accessory thinks they are bigger than the product, even though they wouldn't exist without it. That is what we now see with Sky in the UK. They forget that Aston Villa are the product, not them. They don't carry the respect for the product as much as they should. They forget they don't even have a job without an Aston Villa or a Spurs as their accessory doesn't sell without it. That is why I loved the way Aston Villa put the accessory back in the box. As an ex-player and a former part of the product, I think Carragher naturally got the push-back. He ultimately knows he ios the accessory, not the product.

It's the same thing with FIFA and UEFA. They think they are the product not the program management office for the product. Then once in a while they get an almight smack in the mouth from the product. I see more and more of this going to happen with these organisations.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I think this is where I see things very differently. I often ask people what is the PRODUCT in football. I know you hate this, but I'm going tangential here.

In it's most basic form the product 22 guys or gals, a ball and 2 goalposts (or jumpers). Then it was clear that those 22 guys or gals couldn't uphold the laws of the game on their own so a referee was introduced. Fast forward to where we are today and that particular system is completely broken because that referee ignores the laws of the game. So we have all the nonsense that ensues because of that.

Nowadays the product has many accessories and the TV packages is one of the biggest. You may get to the stage where some fans aren't even interested anymore in the 22 guys or gals and the football. They might be more interested in Neville and Carragher having a coffee and doing a podcast. Each to their own but not for me. It's the beautiful game I love.

My challenge is when the accessory thinks they are bigger than the product, even though they wouldn't exist without it. That is what we now see with Sky in the UK. They forget that Aston Villa are the product, not them. They don't carry the respect for the product as much as they should. They forget they don't even have a job without an Aston Villa or a Spurs as their accessory doesn't sell without it. That is why I loved the way Aston Villa put the accessory back in the box. As an ex-player and a former part of the product, I think Carragher naturally got the push-back. He ultimately knows he ios the accessory, not the product.

It's the same thing with FIFA and UEFA. They think they are the product not the program management office for the product. Then once in a while they get an almight smack in the mouth from the product. I see more and more of this going to happen with these organisations.

Exactly might thoughts. The game is the thing, we start kicking a ball about with a parent and with many it stays in our heart till the day we get sent off.

 

[revlis]

I think this is where I see things very differently. I often ask people what is the PRODUCT in football. I know you hate this, but I'm going tangential here.

In it's most basic form the product 22 guys or gals, a ball and 2 goalposts (or jumpers). Then it was clear that those 22 guys or gals couldn't uphold the laws of the game on their own so a referee was introduced. Fast forward to where we are today and that particular system is completely broken because that referee ignores the laws of the game. So we have all the nonsense that ensues because of that.

Nowadays the product has many accessories and the TV packages is one of the biggest. You may get to the stage where some fans aren't even interested anymore in the 22 guys or gals and the football. They might be more interested in Neville and Carragher having a coffee and doing a podcast. Each to their own but not for me. It's the beautiful game I love.

My challenge is when the accessory thinks they are bigger than the product, even though they wouldn't exist without it. That is what we now see with Sky in the UK. They forget that Aston Villa are the product, not them. They don't carry the respect for the product as much as they should. They forget they don't even have a job without an Aston Villa or a Spurs as their accessory doesn't sell without it. That is why I loved the way Aston Villa put the accessory back in the box. As an ex-player and a former part of the product, I think Carragher naturally got the push-back. He ultimately knows he ios the accessory, not the product.

It's the same thing with FIFA and UEFA. They think they are the product not the program management office for the product. Then once in a while they get an almight smack in the mouth from the product. I see more and more of this going to happen with these organisations.

All of that is just a reflection of what football fans have voted for. We all watch it. We all sat there and agreed as referees were criticised and lambasted for every mistake, convincing ourselves that VAR would fix it. That didn't just happen out of the blue.

Carragher should get push back from Villa fans, not the club. The club is not the product at all. The people running it, who made that statement, are just as greedy and manipulative as Sky and everyone else. They're not doing it for the good of the game. They're not doing it for the fans. They're doing it because they want to make more money. Protecting their brand and embarrassing it at the same time.

 

[Muttley]

All of that is just a reflection of what football fans have voted for. We all watch it. We all sat there and agreed as referees were criticised and lambasted for every mistake, convincing ourselves that VAR would fix it. That didn't just happen out of the blue.

Carragher should get push back from Villa fans, not the club. The club is not the product at all. The people running it, who made that statement, are just as greedy and manipulative as Sky and everyone else. They're not doing it for the good of the game. They're not doing it for the fans. They're doing it because they want to make more money. Protecting their brand and embarrassing it at the same time.

Wouldn't the Villa owners just say that they made the ultimate gesture to their players, their manager and their fans by going in strong with Sky and Carragher? I dont think any Villain is painting their club black, in the same way I wouldn't if Vinai and Charrington flexed their muscles and stood up for our own club. I think the Villa fans understand that one leadership incentive was total brand protection and enablement of future revenue growth as that drives success of the product. I don't think it embarrassed the brand at all.

The VAR story is obviously it's own worm hole. It should have been an enabler to get the game more closely aligned with the original spirit of the game that should be fully supported by the law makers and the officials. I'm still a massive supporter that the day that both of these parties lose their defensive nature and want to use tech to help the 22 guys and gals play football within the laws, then we could see some really positive things happen. If it's just there as an arse covering tool for referees, then it will remain a partial success only.