The General Transfer Rumours and Speculation Thread

[braineclipse]

Sure, no one's saying we can attract Bale back to the club or anything - the general point I was making was that the more expensive transfers usually end up being more successful than the cheaper signings. The reason why clubs with 'buy low, sell high' strategies and recruitment teams that build squads of cheap but effective players are so lauded is precisely because such phenomena tend to be unusual - on the whole, if the market prices a player lower than another, there's generally (generally) a reason for that which manifests itself in some inherent disadvantage the player possesses relative to his more expensive counterpart.

Personally, I think we did a good job last summer in picking up some great players. Toby cost 13.5 million quid (iirc), and I was delighted to get him, since it was transparently obvious that he should have cost a lot more given his outstanding season with Soton and that he'd form a great partnership with Jan. Son cost 22.5 million quid and I was still delighted to get him, since (to my mind) that's the sort of quality we should be aiming to fill the squad with as much as possible, and there was no doubting that he was talented (could use both feet, quick, clinical, relentless runner, great inside-forward), young and seemingly unattainable prior to our move for him (what with him being at Leverkusen, a club with CL football).

There's certainly grounds for concern if the summer was filled with 'great value' signings alone, but only because previous instances of such transfers have been a very mixed bag - for every Dier and Alli, there has been a Stambouli, Fazio, Saha or Nelsen who genuinely were bargain bins in every sense of the term. While Dier and Alli might herald a new era of *only* making smart value signings, I'm not sure they signify a trend just yet, and would thus be concerned if that was all they did. But another summer like the one we had in 2015 wouldn't faze me at all, and I'd be more than happy with that.

Part of my point is that although we do not wish to see ourselves as a "selling club" (buy low, well high strategy) or "recruitment team" we must continue doing what has given us an edge - player development. We can mix this with some high profile signing if the deal is right. But if we aren't able to continue our player development (both of signed and academy players) I think we will ultimately struggle. We're looking to replicate Dortmund and Atletico Madrid imo, we cannot expect to compete with teams with much bigger budgets by going toe to toe with them in the transfer market.

I like Son too, good signing. Now is the time to develop him further. He's had a stop start and up and down first season, he'll be better for it. The strange thing is that if we had signed "another Son" this summer at a similar level for a similar cost people would see this as "making a statement of intent" or "showing ambition". But if we instead say "nope, no need to sign that new player, we're going to develop Son further" while perhaps adding a £5-10m young player to the mix that's somehow problematic going by quite a few comments being made.

Just like there's been a Stambouli, Fazio, Saha or Nelsen (I actually rated Nelsen and both Stambouli and Fazio were decent-ish signings) for every Modric or Berbatov there's clearly been a Rebrov, Paulinho and Soldado for every Lamela. And for Son's talent and potential our current top 5 most expensive signings ever (not adjusted for football inflation) are Soldado, Lamela, Son, Paulinho and Darrent Bent. Not quite the 66-75% success rate you're looking for. Top 10 gives you perhaps a 50% hit rate at best.

I agree on another summer like the one in 2015 being absolutely fine.

 

[braineclipse]

More than that, the cheaper signings tend to bring questions about why those players were valued as low as they were; was it a case of undervalued talent (perhaps due to the financial condition of the club, contract issues, or just overlooked potential) or did/does the selling club know something that we didn't/don't know?

As I said, for every Dier or Alli, there has been a Stambouli and a Fazio. Our present scouting team have been pretty good, so I'm more relaxed about it than I otherwise would have been, but even they can't be expected to conduct only a season of value transfers and get them *all* right.

Getting *all* the value transfer signings right is an impossible and frankly ridiculous standard to set.

Yes some of our best, cheaper, signings have been cheap because of other factors. Dier had a release/wage clause. Alli was at a club accepting that they would sell etc. It's good that we're looking for those situations to exploit, that's part of what gives us an edge.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

A decent midfield player to replace the outgoing Carrol and Bentaleb is needed, and if rumours about Henderson are true then I would snap him up as a great addition. In defence I think we are well covered, and also Vorm as a back up to Lloris is also good.

Why does everyone assume Bentaleb is outfoing? Sure he has had a poor season but it was impacted on by injuries. Look at Dembele this season and then compare it to last season, Dembele turns 29 next birthday while Bentaleb turns 22 I think it would be foolhardy to write him off after one bad season

 

[billyiddo]

Why does everyone assume Bentaleb is outfoing? Sure he has had a poor season but it was impacted on by injuries. Look at Dembele this season and then compare it to last season, Dembele turns 29 next birthday while Bentaleb turns 22 I think it would be foolhardy to write him off after one bad season

a combination of his lack of involvement and rumors of being frozen out, of course they could just be that and he's just had an unlucky season with niggly injuries - if that's the case and the club/management want to keep him then great - but if i was to put a bet on it then id say he's off

 

[braineclipse]

Why does everyone assume Bentaleb is outfoing? Sure he has had a poor season but it was impacted on by injuries. Look at Dembele this season and then compare it to last season, Dembele turns 29 next birthday while Bentaleb turns 22 I think it would be foolhardy to write him off after one bad season

People have been at it since the first half of the season. I remain unconvinced.

Could be that Bentaleb has had some problem behind the scenes with Pochettino and is on his way out. Could be that there has been a problem, but it's been sorted out or is in the process of being sorted out. Could be injuries have been the main problem for him this season and he remains an important part of Pochettino's outlook for the future of our team. Impossible to know at this point.

What I will say is that if it's the case that Bentaleb is on his way out we probably need another player in there.

 

[billyiddo]

also i think we need to make room for a CM signing this summer, someone to provide cover/competition for Dier and/or Dembele - so that puts Mason/Carroll and Bentaleb in the firing line to be sold, especially if the likes of Winks and Onomah are to be considered as squad options next season

 

[Gutter Boy]

Why does everyone assume Bentaleb is outfoing? Sure he has had a poor season but it was impacted on by injuries. Look at Dembele this season and then compare it to last season, Dembele turns 29 next birthday while Bentaleb turns 22 I think it would be foolhardy to write him off after one bad season

Body language - he's got rebellious facial hair

 

[Illy]

Bentaleb will be going as he does not fit the style that Pochettino wants the team to play. His lack of movement,athleticism, mobility and pressing is not at the level that is required in this team. He may have an aggressive streak, but you need much more than that in this team. That is why I think that Henderson would be ideal and a definate improvement on Bentaleb and Carrol, and good enough to compete for 1st team. Pochettino and Paul Mitchell are highlighting players of high quality that can play in a number of positions with a mobility about them.

 

[braineclipse]

Bentaleb will be going as he does not fit the style that Pochettino wants the team to play. His lack of movement,athleticism, mobility and pressing is not at the level that is required in this team. He may have an aggressive streak, but you need much more than that in this team. That is why I think that Henderson would be ideal and a definate improvement on Bentaleb and Carrol, and good enough to compete for 1st team. Pochettino and Paul Mitchell are highlighting players of high quality that can play in a number of positions with a mobility about them.

You think Pochettino gave 25 league starts in his first season with us to the then 19/20 year old Bentaleb knowing that he does not fit the style Pochettino wants to play and that he had a critical lack of movement, athleticism, mobility and pressing?

 

[parklane1]

You think Pochettino gave 25 league starts in his first season with us to the then 19/20 year old Bentaleb knowing that he does not fit the style Pochettino wants to play and that he had a critical lack of movement, athleticism, mobility and pressing?

Maybe ( note I said maybe) it was because he had no other options at the time. Hence making Dier into a CM player.

 

[braineclipse]

Maybe ( note I said maybe) it was because he had no other options at the time. Hence making Dier into a CM player.

Dembele was in the squad. As was the then newly signed Stambouli as well as the mentioned Dier. That's ignoring of course some of the more experienced players that were probably being prepared for departure as the first season developed.

He had other options. He trusted Bentaleb hugely.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Body language - he's got rebellious facial hair

No, more because of this;

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...ontract-talks-left-bitter-taste-a3160846.html

'So what went wrong? Publicly, both Bentaleb and Pochettino have been diplomatic but Standard Sport understands some at the club were unimpressed with the way contract negotiations were conducted during the second half of last season.

Eyebrows were raised at the size of Bentaleb’s entourage when the talks were taking place, and at the midfielder’s willingness to speak openly about interest from other clubs.

Juventus were thought to have been monitoring the discussions and Bentaleb told the Daily Telegraph: “I’ve had some interest from big clubs, from Champions League clubs. I’m flattered. Sometimes it is annoying when you don’t feel treated as you should be.”

Bentaleb’s advisors were pushing for a weekly wage of £40,000. The player eventually signed a five-year contract worth about £30,000 a week last July, but Spurs were concerned about the nature of the advice Bentaleb was receiving. For his part, Bentaleb is believed to have sought answers from Pochettino about his lack of involvement.

Pochettino made a point recently of praising the attitude of Tom Carroll, who is now ahead of Bentaleb in the race for a midfield spot.

“We are very happy with his performance and how he behaves,” Pochettino said. “He is a good example that we expect from the young and players not involved in the starting XI.” Was he sending a message to other players?'

 

[braineclipse]

No, more because of this;

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...ontract-talks-left-bitter-taste-a3160846.html

'So what went wrong? Publicly, both Bentaleb and Pochettino have been diplomatic but Standard Sport understands some at the club were unimpressed with the way contract negotiations were conducted during the second half of last season.

Eyebrows were raised at the size of Bentaleb’s entourage when the talks were taking place, and at the midfielder’s willingness to speak openly about interest from other clubs.

Juventus were thought to have been monitoring the discussions and Bentaleb told the Daily Telegraph: “I’ve had some interest from big clubs, from Champions League clubs. I’m flattered. Sometimes it is annoying when you don’t feel treated as you should be.”

Bentaleb’s advisors were pushing for a weekly wage of £40,000. The player eventually signed a five-year contract worth about £30,000 a week last July, but Spurs were concerned about the nature of the advice Bentaleb was receiving. For his part, Bentaleb is believed to have sought answers from Pochettino about his lack of involvement.

Pochettino made a point recently of praising the attitude of Tom Carroll, who is now ahead of Bentaleb in the race for a midfield spot.

“We are very happy with his performance and how he behaves,” Pochettino said. “He is a good example that we expect from the young and players not involved in the starting XI.” Was he sending a message to other players?'

He still started against United. Got two sub appearances after that before again starting against Everton at the end of August before his injury problems started. All of that after the reported contract shenanigans.

Pochettino also "made a point of" praising Bentaleb later on in the season saying that he was working well in training. Probably after that article was written though.

It's very speculative and premature to make any conclusions about Bentaleb and next season based on this from what I can tell. Might have been a problem, might be solved, might not be.

 

[DubaiSpur]

He still started against United. Got two sub appearances after that before again starting against Everton at the end of August before his injury problems started. All of that after the reported contract shenanigans.

Pochettino also "made a point of" praising Bentaleb later on in the season saying that he was working well in training. Probably after that article was written though.

It's very speculative and premature to make any conclusions about Bentaleb and next season based on this from what I can tell. Might have been a problem, might be solved, might not be.

Right, but 'might have been a problem' still puts him on a shakier footing than with other players where we're fairly sure that there isn't a problem between them and the club/management/whoever. Hence the assumptions about Bentaleb being one of the outgoings that Gutter speculated might be down to Bentaleb's 'rebellious facial hair'.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Maybe ( note I said maybe) it was because he had no other options at the time. Hence making Dier into a CM player.

You are judging him on one bad season hampered by injury. I know lets judge Dembele on last season's form, or Lamela on his first season's form.

Remember the kid is still just 21

 

[parklane1]

You are judging him on one bad season hampered by injury. I know lets judge Dembele on last season's form, or Lamela on his first season's form.

Remember the kid is still just 21

I have not forgot that at all however the talk is that he has problems with Poch , now none of us know if that is true or not but IF Poch decides to bring in other CM players this summer then ( imo) there will be outgoings from that area. And the three who have been mentioned as posiable outgoings Mason, Bentaleb Carroll and IF that happens then for me I would say it would be Mason followed by Bentaleb. But we will see.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Of all of our young midfielders on the fringe of the first team I think that Bentaleb is the one with the highest ceiling. He is therefore the one that I would most like to keep. I would then like to see him get games in preseason in the Demebele role, playing in front of Dier. He has hte physical attributes, touch and awareness to play this role and I think he will ultimately be a better fit than Mason.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Of all of our young midfielders on the fringe of the first team I think that Bentaleb is the one with the highest ceiling. He is therefore the one that I would most like to keep. I would then like to see him get games in preseason in the Demebele role, playing in front of Dier. He has hte physical attributes, touch and awareness to play this role and I think he will ultimately be a better fit than Mason.

Agree. Mason is definitely the 3rd best CM at the moment (with Bentaleb and Carroll 4th and 5th), but I think Bentaleb's ceiling could be the highest of all 5 (or close to Dier's at least; with Dembele already at his peak).

 

[monkeybarry]

He has been an accident waiting to happen when he's played this season, unlike every other player in the squad who has been steady and reliable.

If the rumours are half true then half a season watching his team mates be successful as a team will give him the opportunity to work hard and show he is ready if called upon. But clearly Dier, Dembele, Carroll, Mason and Winks have all put themselves in better positions for selection.
That's not to say he is a bad egg, in Pochs mind he may just be good egg no.6 at present. But if he has got his head down and kept working whilst not playing then he will prove he has the attitude Poch wants, ie you've never "made it", because there is always more to strive for as a team.

He may, of course, just have been a one season wonder

 

[Lemonade Money]

Maybe ( note I said maybe) it was because he had no other options at the time. Hence making Dier into a CM player.

This