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The Defence

Bedfordspurs said:
Arsenal, Chelsea And Everton at home

West Brom away

Our football in those games was borderline brilliant as it combined excitement with energy in the final third
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I agree. I think that our problem last year was consistency and lack of depth, not formation or tactics. All of our first eleven last year have a role for us this season but the quality and suitability of our players starts dropping very quickly once you get outside of this. Fix this (and we have made a good start this summer) and we can look to push on.
 
milo said:
I agree. I think that our problem last year was consistency and lack of depth, not formation or tactics. All of our first eleven last year have a role for us this season but the quality and suitability of our players starts dropping very quickly once you get outside of this. Fix this (and we have made a good start this summer) and we can look to push on.
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We will never qualify for the CL without a proper DM and a dynamic attacking midfielder to improve upon Chadli/Lamela. I can't see us improving a great deal just because we've signed a few players in an area where we were already decent. I'm glad we won't be forced to choose between the paceless Fazio or the inexperienced Dier for games against quick attacks, but that fact alone isn't going to revolutionise our team.
 
Pandy said:
We will never qualify for the CL without a proper DM and a dynamic attacking midfielder to improve upon Chadli/Lamela. I can't see us improving a great deal just because we've signed a few players in an area where we were already decent. I'm glad we won't be forced to choose between the paceless Fazio or the inexperienced Dier for games against quick attacks, but that fact alone isn't going to revolutionise our team.
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Arsenal have qualified for the Champions League many times without a proper DM.

Last summer many thought that we should sell Rose and had doubts about whether Kane was of sufficient quality for us. Is it possible that the players within the club could improve sufficiently for us to mount a more sustained challenge for a Champions League place?
 
milo said:
Arsenal have qualified for the Champions League many times without a proper DM.

Last summer many thought that we should sell Rose and had doubts about whether Kane was of sufficient quality for us.? Is it possible that the players within the club could improve sufficiently for us to mount a more sustained challenge for a Champions League place
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YES :)
 
milo said:
Arsenal have qualified for the Champions League many times without a proper DM.

Last summer many thought that we should sell Rose and had doubts about whether Kane was of sufficient quality for us. Is it possible that the players within the club could improve sufficiently for us to mount a more sustained challenge for a Champions League place?
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Whoa careful what you say!!!

I'm with you. If certain plates don't improve on their first session then so be it but I'm fully expecting Mason and Bentelab to push on and improve. The potential is there, the work rate is there and the skill level. It's experience that's missing. Matic didn't have it first time round at Chelsea so they sold him. Now he is top top drawer. You need games to get experience
 
milo said:
Arsenal have qualified for the Champions League many times without a proper DM.

Last summer many thought that we should sell Rose and had doubts about whether Kane was of sufficient quality for us. Is it possible that the players within the club could improve sufficiently for us to mount a more sustained challenge for a Champions League place?
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I agree, the fans seem to have become wrapped up in the MS saga it's unbelievable. A DM would be good but not the priority (back up for Harry) or answer to everything IMV.
 
Yep, if we can get a pacey WF who can cover for Harry then bonus.
If we can get that and move on Ade, if only because if the wages and kaboul then it's been a good window.
 
A few points...

I have never gotten wrapped up in the "MS saga", or at least that is not my reason for wanting us to sign a DM. That would be stupid. For the majority of last season I consistently said both on here and to fans of other clubs that despite what the 'Goals Against' column might suggest, our defence is not actually that bad. We now have a very good defence with the additions of Alderweireld and Wimmer that boasts quality, variety and strength in depth.

Yet I still want to see a DM come in. Regardless of how much Mason and Bentaleb could improve this season, it would be folly to assume that just because they have potential, we shouldn't be looking to compliment their skill-sets with someone more defensively-minded (or experienced, as someone mentioned above). Even if they become more defensively minded, with the departure of Capoue and probably Stambouli, we need another such option in our squad anyway. It is the only prudent course of action if we are serious about CL qualification.

Also - we are not Arsenal, and even if we did have such a technically adept team as they have had over the past decade (we don't), with at least 2 world class players at basically all times (we have zero), to say that we should not sign a DM for such reasons alone is myopic, and is exactly what we have all criticised Wenger for in every single season since Vieira left. Why is such a policy suddenly logical just because we're talking about Spurs?

Obviously we need another striker (and an attacking midfielder(s)). But just because one signing is necessary, or even a priority, doesn't mean the others should be neglected. You don't hear me calling for us to abandon signing attacking midfielders and strikers in order to sort out a DM... They are all important signings, and if we don't cover all of them by the time the window shuts, I would call this summer a failure.

Thankfully the links in the media suggest we are looking to sign all three players, or at least two players to cover those three positions. It is going to be a massive ask to come above City, United or Arsenal this year regardless of who we sign, but if we resign ourselves to mediocrity and think 'oh, that'll do' then we have absolutely no chance.

/rant
 
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Does anyone else see the end of my post with a strikethrough applied to it? Did I do something silly when posting or have I gone over some sort of character limit?
 
Pandy said:
Does anyone else see the end of my post with a strikethrough applied to it? Did I do something silly when posting or have I gone over some sort of character limit?
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Strange...

But reacting to your comments

The Poch system is about defending from the front IMO. It's about closing down attacking options And space at the source and limiting the pass. For that to work the attacking players have to work bloody hard and consistently

The games we excelled in our three behind Kane excelled at that and it gave the two behind support. Chelsea are experts at it and they clock up the miles doing so

Lamella does it really well quite possibly at the detriment of his creative role

Erisken puts in more miles than most but I can't qualify how defensive it is

Chadli who had a hell of an attacking record last season offered very little defensively and that's a weakness that will exploited by better sides

we also didn't have much of s counter attacking side last year which may change with players being fit this year (walker for example)

So trying to get back to my point, you add a defensive midfielder we may lose some attacking impetuous. Get the attacking players working hard consistently with quality back up when their not fresh etc... For me is a better long term option
 
Pandy said:
Does anyone else see the end of my post with a strikethrough applied to it? Did I do something silly when posting or have I gone over some sort of character limit?
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Where you say "and an attacking midfielder", you put an 's' in square brackets after the word 'midfielder'. That started the "strike through" mark-up.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Strange...

But reacting to your comments

The Poch system is about defending from the front IMO. It's about closing down attacking options And space at the source and limiting the pass. For that to work the attacking players have to work bloody hard and consistently

The games we excelled in our three behind Kane excelled at that and it gave the tow behind the room
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You are right about that. I think it's when we get caught out on the break that problems arise, and neither Bentaleb nor Mason have shown the defensive instincts to plug the gaps in front of the back four. Sure they might improve, and I'm not saying we can't start the season with those two as our midfield duo, but we need someone we can throw on to shore things up.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Strange...

But reacting to your comments

The Poch system is about defending from the front IMO. It's about closing down attacking options And space at the source and limiting the pass. For that to work the attacking players have to work bloody hard and consistently

The games we excelled in our three behind Kane excelled at that and it gave the two behind support. Chelsea are experts at it and they clock up the miles doing so

Lamella does it really well quite possibly at the detriment of his creative role

Erisken puts in more miles than most but I can't qualify how defensive it is

Chadli who had a hell of an attacking record last season offered very little defensively and that's a weakness that will exploited by better sides

we also didn't have much of s counter attacking side last year which may change with players being fit this year (walker for example)

So trying to get back to my point, you add a defensive midfielder we may lose some attacking impetuous. Get the attacking players working hard consistently with quality back up when their not fresh etc... For me is a better long term option
Click to expand...

Agreed. If we bring in a more defensively minded midfielder, they need to be good on the ball and with an eye for a quick pass or the system will fail.
 
Pandy said:
You are right about that. I think it's when we get caught out on the break that problems arise, and neither Bentaleb nor Mason have shown the defensive instincts to plug the gaps in front of the back four. Sure they might improve, and I'm not saying we can't start the season with those two as our midfield duo, but we need someone we can throw on to shore things up.
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I actually think unless we buy someone of a top top drawer nature then no one will be any better IMO

The role is almost impossible unless we upgrade the front players first (including the back up so its like for like)

No coincidence that Chelsea upgraded the attacking players before signing Matic ... Ok I'm speculating

But I think fix the attacking defence first and see what's needed then
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I actually think unless we buy someone of a top top drawer nature then no one will be any better IMO

The role is almost impossible unless we upgrade the front players first (including the back up so its like for like)

No coincidence that Chelsea upgraded the attacking players before signing Matic ... Ok I'm speculating

But I think fix the attacking defence first and see what's needed then
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I suspect that this is the reason why Wenger has tried to convert attacking ball players to playing deeper.
 
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