• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

The decision to fire AVB

BrainOfLevy said:
And I reeeeeeeeeeally hope it does. Shows that the club's PR machine is working IMO that they get to shape his legacy after he has gone, which is a bit unfair, but at the end of the day I don't think he really cares. He'll move on and do well, and then go race bikes or whatever it is he wants to do.
Click to expand...

I sincerely doubt he'd have agreed to it if he cared. I don't think what's reported in the UK press will bother him one bit.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
And I reeeeeeeeeeally hope it does. Shows that the club's PR machine is working IMO that they get to shape his legacy after he has gone, which is a bit unfair, but at the end of the day I don't think he really cares. He'll move on and do well, and then go race bikes or whatever it is he wants to do.
Click to expand...

or maybe he was given a nice sum of £££££££ to keep his mouth shut? have you ever thought that may be a possibility?
 
chancer said:
Dealing with the media isn't contingent or optional. It's a key part of the job spec, like putting out the cones or handing in the team sheet.

You don't get to absent yourself from that just because you are a Portuguese Baron and consider yourself above the grubby fray.

You and I can argue till the cows come home about whether that's right, but it doesn't matter. It is what it is, and you either play the game (Sherwood, Redknapp, Rodgers) or you win so many trophies that you can say whatever the hell you like to the media (Jose, SAF). What you don't get to do is show up as a 35 year and let it be known, in words and manner, that it's beneath you.
Click to expand...

AVB dealt with the media far better than Sherwood does but the reaction of the press between the two of them could not be more different.
 
chancer said:
Dealing with the media isn't contingent or optional. It's a key part of the job spec, like putting out the cones or handing in the team sheet.

You don't get to absent yourself from that just because you are a Portuguese Baron and consider yourself above the grubby fray.

You and I can argue till the cows come home about whether that's right, but it doesn't matter. It is what it is, and you either play the game (Sherwood, Redknapp, Rodgers) or you win so many trophies that you can say whatever the hell you like to the media (Jose, SAF). What you don't get to do is show up as a 35 year and let it be known, in words and manner, that it's beneath you.
Click to expand...

Maybe not - I doubt I'd have done anything different and I'd like to think any manager we employ has the ethical basis to do the same. As you say, such a standpoint is more likely to work if they have a history of trophies to fall back on.
 
Kingdawson said:
so how can it be "unfair" if he had an option to either accept the large £££££ or reject it and talk all he wants? where's the unfair part?
Click to expand...

I think you're picking up on a small part of my post which wasn't really the crux or point of it. It's unfair in the sense that his reputation in this country takes a bit of a hit (IMO) but yes, part of his settlement would be that he keeps his mouth shut. Never have I denied that. Hostility from you on this subject is so blatant!
 
Kingdawson said:
so how can it be "unfair" if he had an option to either accept the large £££££ or reject it and talk all he wants? where's the unfair part?
Click to expand...

It's unfair on us as we don't get to know anything other than the corporately polished Spurs PR machine version of events.

I sincerely doubt AVB cares what is said about him leaving and would have signed the agreement for next to nothing.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I think you're picking up on a small part of my post which wasn't really the crux or point of it. It's unfair in the sense that his reputation in this country takes a bit of a hit (IMO) but yes, part of his settlement would be that he keeps his mouth shut. Never have I denied that. Hostility from you on this subject is so blatant!
Click to expand...

no...even in simple statements your posts ALWAYS lead to some sort of defense or sympathy towards AVB. The PR machine at the club is working and it's somewhat unfair to AVB that they get to shape his legacy? to you this is probably a normal throwaway comment but actually read what you're typing.

You're claiming something is unfair when AVB HAD THE OPTION FOR THIS NOT TO HAPPEN BUT CHOSE TO GO WITH IT SO HE'LL GET MORE £££££££. In no way, shape, or form is it unfair yet you still can't help yourself. It's sad that you don't see how incredibly biased you are but i doubt you ever will.
 
Kingdawson said:
no...even in simple statements your posts ALWAYS lead to some sort of defense or sympathy towards AVB. The PR machine at the club is working and it's somewhat unfair to AVB that they get to shape his legacy? to you this is probably a normal throwaway comment but actually read what you're typing.

You're claiming something is unfair when AVB HAD THE OPTION FOR THIS NOT TO HAPPEN BUT CHOSE TO GO WITH IT SO HE'LL GET MORE £££££££. In no way, shape, or form is it unfair yet you still can't help yourself. It's sad that you don't see how incredibly biased you are but i doubt you ever will.
Click to expand...

:eek:
 
scaramanga said:
It's unfair on us as we don't get to know anything other than the corporately polished Spurs PR machine version of events.

I sincerely doubt AVB cares what is said about him leaving and would have signed the agreement for next to nothing.
Click to expand...

I agree somewhat but that wasn't what BOL was implying and his following post pretty much proves it.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not sure how much you know about British sports "journalism" - or even if you're from the UK, so the following will either be enlightening or patronising. Hope it's the former.

For years British tabloid football journalists (and I know this because a friend of mine used to work at the Mirror and covered some weekends in the sport section) have spent their days taking their mates out to lunch/the pub and doing almost no work whatsoever. They all have their pet managers who let info slip to them as and when it suits both parties. It has been expense accounts and ****-ups for years (with the odd 'massage' thrown in here and there). Their columns have been little more than gossip columns for their whole careers and I've probably written longer reports in a day than you'd get if you put all the actual content of their career's work together in one piece.

AVB represents a new type of manager - he will talk all day about tactics to serious journalists doing serious pieces, but has no time for what the tabloids have been doing for all this time. If you want to talk about the team, you can come and spend the day at the training ground and learn about what we're doing. If you want to know who's been knobbing hookers in the team hotel, you can **** off. He represents a need for journalists to work for a living and to actually do what journalists are paid to do - investigate, analyse and report. He uses words that their lethargic, underused brains can no longer comprehend - that's if they ever could.

Add to that the fact that he and his generation are rapidly making the friends of these "journalists" look very outdated in their ways and are making them surplus to requirements at many clubs and you have a battle line drawn. It doesn't help that AVB was replacing one of the two or three worst offenders in the old ways of doing things.
Click to expand...

Hmmm,

I'd say that if you're going to be a successful manager, you have to deal with the tabloid press and play their game, whether you like it or not. I'm from the UK, yes, but I was born in the middle east and i've lived in a variety of different countries while my parents were working for the foreign service. I also have friends from all over and the tabloid press are the same in every country. Infact, the Spanish and Italian press are even more corrupt and adept at playing silly games than the UK press. The British press are mild when compared with most press in the world.

AVB needed to play the game. It really isn't that difficult. He needed to take a leaf out of Mourinho's book. OK, its not pleasant, but its part of the job. AVB made a rod for his own back and pretty much placed the spotlight firmly on how he was managing Spurs and the job he was doing, adding unnecessary pressure to the situation. AVB did that. NObody else.

Finally, the point of AVB's generation making the friend's of the journos look very outdated in their ways and surplus to requirements - I don't think that's true. You compare the job AVB did at Spurs with the job that Redknapp did. The job Redknapp did would probably be regarded as superior. Rodgers on the other hand has made Liverpool wonder why they went for Dalglish over someone like him in the first place. Its just all swings and round abouts and what style is suited to a particular club at a particular time.

I wouldn't say AVB pulled up any trees while he was in England or showed up traditional English managers for the dinosaurs they are supposed to me. If anything, AVB did everything possible to play into their hands and make true the perception that he was a novice who talked with a lot of big words, but really didn't know what he was doing.
 
NWND said:
Hmmm,

I'd say that if you're going to be a successful manager, you have to deal with the tabloid press and play their game, whether you like it or not. I'm from the UK, yes, but I was born in the middle east and i've lived in a variety of different countries while my parents were working for the foreign service. I also have friends from all over and the tabloid press are the same in every country. Infact, the Spanish and Italian press are even more corrupt and adept at playing silly games than the UK press. The British press are mild when compared with most press in the world.

AVB needed to play the game. It really isn't that difficult. He needed to take a leaf out of Mourinho's book. OK, its not pleasant, but its part of the job. AVB made a rod for his own back and pretty much placed the spotlight firmly on how he was managing Spurs and the job he was doing, adding unnecessary pressure to the situation. AVB did that. NObody else.

Finally, the point of AVB's generation making the friend's of the journos look very outdated in their ways and surplus to requirements - I don't think that's true. You compare the job AVB did at Spurs with the job that Redknapp did. The job Redknapp did would probably be regarded as superior. Rodgers on the other hand has made Liverpool wonder why they went for Dalglish over someone like him in the first place. Its just all swings and round abouts and what style is suited to a particular club at a particular time.

I wouldn't say AVB pulled up any trees while he was in England or showed up traditional English managers for the dinosaurs they are supposed to me. If anything, AVB did everything possible to play into their hands and make true the perception that he was a novice who talked with a lot of big words, but really didn't know what he was doing.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Play their game, build a good relationship with them. Give them the quotes that essentially write articles for them so they don't have to do any actual work and go on boozing, whoring, being tabloid reporters.

It's not really all that difficult I think, you don't have to like or respect them, you don't have to enjoy it even. But I actually think it's somewhat representative of what AVB did in general. He didn't care much about maintaining positive relationships. It's something I can respect on a personal level, but as a football manager I'm not sure it's the best approach unless you have a name or position in football that's close to unassailable.
 
All this talk about how AVB should have played the 'media game'.

Can i ask all you who say this to be the case: what should he have said to Neil Ashton instead after that BS article about AVB putting the blame for the 6-0 drubbing on the players??

Of the many faults that have been throWn at AVB (most I can understand even if some I disagree with) this 'playing the media game better' is pure BS!
 
glorygloryeze said:
All this talk about how AVB should have played the 'media game'.

Can i ask all you who say this to be the case: what should he have said to Neil Ashton instead after that BS article about AVB putting the blame for the 6-0 drubbing on the players??

Of the many faults that have been throWn at AVB (most I can understand even if some I disagree with) this 'playing the media game better' is pure BS!
Click to expand...

I'm not getting into specifics about AVB's behaviour.

I just think it's beneficial to a a manager to give the journalists the quotes they want so that they will treat the manager better.

I don't think that's BS.
 
scaramanga said:
I'm not sure how much you know about British sports "journalism" - or even if you're from the UK, so the following will either be enlightening or patronising. Hope it's the former.

For years British tabloid football journalists (and I know this because a friend of mine used to work at the Mirror and covered some weekends in the sport section) have spent their days taking their mates out to lunch/the pub and doing almost no work whatsoever. They all have their pet managers who let info slip to them as and when it suits both parties. It has been expense accounts and ****-ups for years (with the odd 'massage' thrown in here and there). Their columns have been little more than gossip columns for their whole careers and I've probably written longer reports in a day than you'd get if you put all the actual content of their career's work together in one piece.

AVB represents a new type of manager - he will talk all day about tactics to serious journalists doing serious pieces, but has no time for what the tabloids have been doing for all this time. If you want to talk about the team, you can come and spend the day at the training ground and learn about what we're doing. If you want to know who's been knobbing hookers in the team hotel, you can **** off. He represents a need for journalists to work for a living and to actually do what journalists are paid to do - investigate, analyse and report. He uses words that their lethargic, underused brains can no longer comprehend - that's if they ever could.

Add to that the fact that he and his generation are rapidly making the friends of these "journalists" look very outdated in their ways and are making them surplus to requirements at many clubs and you have a battle line drawn. It doesn't help that AVB was replacing one of the two or three worst offenders in the old ways of doing things.
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct for many years...some newer writers are different, but there's an entrenched guard who are poor. I always thought McCarra was a great writer, but he quit as he became disillusioned...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back