glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
I'm still waiting for the Neil Ashton article about Sherwood blaming everyone but himself? After all, he wrote similar for AVB after the 6-0 at City, with his claim that AVB was doing just that...
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The decision to fire AVB
- Thread starter Johnny Ray
- Start date
I'm still waiting for the Neil Ashton article about Sherwood blaming everyone but himself? After all, he wrote similar for AVB after the 6-0 at City, with his claim that AVB was doing just that...
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Yup....I'm surprised the stunning hypocrisy hasn't been brought up more prominently to be honest. Really was amazing.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Why would that surprise you?
Nobody defended Neil Ashton on here before. And his comments on that were met with widespread derision by fans of this board, even those that had lost faith in AVB by that point.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Tbf, there are many here that are happy with TS and his current penchant for blaming the players for all our ills; the same ills that previously were all the fault of the previous manager...
thfcsteff
Terry Dyson
Fair enough.
Moutinho was because he knew he was not getting Modric, a player he wanted at Chelski.
Have to say, I never questioned his targets because I trusted his vision; such a shame he wasn't given who HE wanted...
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Typical AVB targets:
Hulk
Moutinho
Modric
Willlian
Oscar
Bernard
(that Croatio youngster going to Barca..)
I don't think his assessments of talent for the playmaker/creative roles could be questioned too much imo
Hulk
Moutinho
Modric
Willlian
Oscar
Bernard
(that Croatio youngster going to Barca..)
I don't think his assessments of talent for the playmaker/creative roles could be questioned too much imo
Kingdawson
Banned
because everyone is out to get AVB...it's never his fault.....he's merely a victim......it's that evil chairman.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I'm not talking about on here, I'm wondering why maybe his peers haven't held him to account because it really was blatant, and how he tried to justify himself following the infamous press conference was pathetic, delusional almost.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Oh come on man! Do you not think Neil Ashton was shocking in how he twisted AVB's words after the City mauling? Then questioned his trophy haul and whether 'anyone' could have done it?
Do you think TS or even Harry would EVER get such treatment/scrutiny??
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Firstly, I would completely dispute that there are many here who are happy with TS. There are perhaps a few posters on the board who are generally happy with the job he's done and wouldn't be upset about him continuing next year, I think they could be counted on one hand. There are a few who despise him and will attack everything he does and belittle anything. They are also a small minority imo but they're incredibly vocal.
And then there's the overwhelming majority in the middle, who don't want TS next season, who can see that he doesn't really seem to have a long term plan, that he clearly can't coach a defence, that his selections can be baffling, that the way he conducts himself in the media is appalling. But who don't attack every little thing he does and who give credit when he does do good things, rather than making up conspiracy theories and belittling everything.
Anyway, not sure what this has to do with Ashton tbh.
There is something a bit wrong with the mentality of our players though clearly, if they can make significantly more mistakes which lead to goals than any other team in Europe's top leagues, under 2 different managers. That isn't normal, especially not for a team that isn't getting relegated.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
You can never debate me properly on this issue can you? Never do I ever accuse you of being a Levy fanboy, a Sherwood fanboy, a Harry fanboy or anything. I debate points. I look at what has happened and use that to back up my argument. Have I nailed my colours to the 'AVB was wronged and I blame Levy' mast? Absolutely. But I'm trying to use what we know has happened to make an argument that supports that belief.
You reduce your arguments against that very quickly to 'Oh you're just saying that because you're an AVB fanboy' and how am I supposed to compete against that? You were hostile towards AVB when he first arrived at Chelsea because you didn't like how the media were painting him as a tactical coach. I remember so many disparaging comments about the supposed 'tactical genius' being extremely over-rated. And this was years ago. You've never liked him. That's obvious. But I've never thrown that at you in debates about him the way you do the same to me.
And then I have no idea how to reconcile the fact you want Moyes to be our manager? I mean any excuses you think I make for AVB leaving us 8 points from the top of the league...you're going to have to make ten times more to justify any argument that Moyes should be our manager. And I actually like Moyes. I'm just using this point to show up your argument to be honest, the way you are always needling me in the same way.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Of those, only Moutinho is a deep lying playmaker. And he I think he only went for him because he saw a player above the quality we can usually get who we suddenly had a chance with because of personal connections with the manager.
Paulinho, Dembele, Capoue. Those are the 3 cms he bought. Almost £40 million worth of cms there. Sandro, the cm he kept on. None of those are creative. In any real way.
For me, AVB's style was quite clear after 1.5 years here. A very solid cm 3 and a very potent attacking 3. Unfortunately for us, the only attacking player he could get to fire with any real fluidity and regularity in his time here was Bale. I don't think a creative cm was that high in his priority list.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
I should have clarified that there are some that are happy to go along with TS when he puts all blame on the players as he deflects it from himself. My point is that Ashton or others of his ilk in the press haven't picked up on this (unlike in AVB's case where they twisted his words and did the opposite) much like some on this board.
Not sure there is much more wrong with the mentality of our current players when compared to most Spurs players in the last 20/30 years. They are just playing for a manager who is playing kamikaze football and blames goals conceded on everyone but the boogy.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Modric was as well. My point being that he did identify creative types; some deep-lying and dictating tempo (Moutinho, Modric), some box-box and creative (Oscar, Moutinho?), some probably more likely deployed in a 'potent' front 3 (Hulk, Willian, Bernard).
AVB clearly wanted creativity in his team and it wasn't for want of trying that we didn't get enough in the end. The 3 CMs he did buy made sense in that they were sold enough for the roles they were being asked to perform. Paulinho offering the most goal threat of them all, and Capoue being a bit more forward-passing version of Sandro who had creative, tempo-setting potential as well (according to those who watched him play alongside Moussa Sissoko at Toulose)
Kingdawson
Banned
Hulk = yes but in no way a playmaker
Moutinho = yes
Modric = Was a Chelski target before AVB was their manager. Abramovich wanted him.
Willian = Not a playmaker.
Oscar = yes
Bernard = yes
Halilovic = no...Baldini targeted him and the young CB
Anyway the discussion is usually about deep lying playmakers (like Moutinho) and whether or not AVB really wanted one as much as some claim.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Happy to be proved otherwise, but imo at least the days of big ****-ups at the back were interspersed with days of sold defending under AVB. With TS now it's week after week after week. In faxct when was our last clean sheet??
Kingdawson
Banned
Excellent post.
I mean you can also take it 1 step further and include Sigurdsson as another central player signed with little creativity (chosen to replace Rafa may i add) and the only creative type cm we had being frozen out (Huddlestone).
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
I think AVB wanted Modric; when he was made manager Chelski stepped up their interest even further as AVB really wanted him. When it was clear that Levy was really digging his heels in and it wasn't going to happen AVB then turned to Mata.
My point is that yes AVB did want a deep-lying playmaker if possible, but also wanted creativity further up the pitch as well, especially if he didn't get the playmaker.
I think the players targeted make that clear imo