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Squad Assessment - Spring 2022

braineclipse said:
No doubt a high quality midfielder could make a big difference. That's also true about several other positions too.

Some compromises will have to be made I think. Functional midfielders that fit the system is a great base from which to add quality, be it in central midfield or elsewhere. For me central midfield isn't the top priority, but it's somewhere we should be looking for that one real quality signing if it can be made.

Worth noting that we're seeing much better from Winks again. Skipp is very young. Hojbjerg starting to push on again. Then Bentancur. Let's see where Conte gets them by the end of the season.
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It might not be top priority, but i don't see why we can't address it. We brang in 5 players last summer. All rumours suggest that we have promised to properly back conte next summer. With a huge amount of players out of contract or entering the last year we should be able to bring in 5 again.

If kessie is willing to join us on a free, should we turn it down because we need a rwb?
 
Bishop said:
Liverpool's midfield was indeed functional, yet i'd still argue that they were as a three superior to Skipp, Wijnks and Hojberg. Put them in the Liverpool system and yes they might up their levels, but still they won't quite match what Liverpool's midfield produced due some missing attributes that they lack. Forgetting of course the fact that Liverpool have two genuinely creative wide attacking forwards in Salah and Mane, its not a like for like comparison, we don't play the same system or with the same type of attackers.

The point with mentioning Hazard is that you can afford a more functional midfield if you have a world class playmaker playing in your forward three who also drops into midfield at times. We don't have a world class attacking forward playmaker, its not quite the same scenario. We also deffo disagree on Matic, considering he started off as an AM you'll notice every now and then he would play a very cute pass, hes better than you are giving him credit for. Add all of these players together and you get a team that has higher quality in midfield as well as more creativity in the attacking three. If we get a Hazard like player than a purely functional midfield has more chance of success, but has been noted multiple times, Conte has never had a midfield that has been purely functional. He has always had a degree of quality and passing quality in there. I expect he will want the same here as that is what has been succesful for him in the past.
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His chelsea midfield was functional supported by attacking wing backs
His team outscored their Xg by 19 goals. That was because they had 5 attacking players all the time and then had the shield of Kante and Matic
 
Lilbaz said:
It might not be top priority, but i don't see why we can't address it. We brang in 5 players last summer. All rumours suggest that we have promised to properly back conte next summer. With a huge amount of players out of contract or entering the last year we should be able to bring in 5 again.

If kessie is willing to join us on a free, should we turn it down because we need a rwb?
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Take almost any point to a sufficient extreme and it starts looking silly.

Sure, if Kessie on a free on wages and fees we can live with is doable go do it. I just think it will be a lot easier said than done.

Back Conte, definitely, no disagreement. To what extent can we do that is the question. My assumption is that we'll have to make compromises. From there there's a conversation to be had about priorities.

If we can fix most apparent weaknesses in the squad and starting 11 with 5 players that are likely to be rather immediate success stories, do that, great.
 
braineclipse said:
Take almost any point to a sufficient extreme and it starts looking silly.

Sure, if Kessie on a free on wages and fees we can live with is doable go do it. I just think it will be a lot easier said than done.

Back Conte, definitely, no disagreement. To what extent can we do that is the question. My assumption is that we'll have to make compromises. From there there's a conversation to be had about priorities.

If we can fix most apparent weaknesses in the squad and starting 11 with 5 players that are likely to be rather immediate success stories, do that, great.
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I don't think it's extreme.

Due to covid, for the last 2 years clubs have struggled to match players wage demands and renew their contracts. Or afford to buy them. This has led to an unprecedented amount of players either being out of contract in the summer or entering their final year. Clubs are still struggling.
The premier league has managed to get full crowds back into games, roll over their tv deal and sign a £2bn new tv rights deal in the us. Spurs have refinanced their debt. We have conte who by all accounts we have promised to back.

I might be being overly optimistic, but i think we can do some really good business this summer. Especially if we can secure cl.
 
Lilbaz said:
I don't think it's extreme.

Due to covid, for the last 2 years clubs have struggled to match players wage demands and renew their contracts. Or afford to buy them. This has led to an unprecedented amount of players either being out of contract in the summer or entering their final year. Clubs are still struggling.
The premier league has managed to get full crowds back into games, roll over their tv deal and sign a £2bn new tv rights deal in the us. Spurs have refinanced their debt. We have conte who by all accounts we have promised to back.

I might be being overly optimistic, but i think we can do some really good business this summer. Especially if we can secure cl.
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The extreme comment was about going from what I said to if that meant we shouldn't sign Kessie on a free if we can because we need a RWB.

There will be some free transfers knocking around, but I think there will be real competition for the best of those free agents. Hopefully we can find some great deals there, but I'm not counting on that until it's actually done.

We'll probably need another cheap backup goalie. Perhaps sign another fairly cheap younger player like Sarr. Then three hopefully first team ready players, that should perhaps be possible.

If we're talking 5 players ready to strengthen the starting 11 that's a big ask.

Quality and fit for the system will again be the most important, not quantity. But we need more than one.
 
braineclipse said:
The extreme comment was about going from what I said to if that meant we shouldn't sign Kessie on a free if we can because we need a RWB.

There will be some free transfers knocking around, but I think there will be real competition for the best of those free agents. Hopefully we can find some great deals there, but I'm not counting on that until it's actually done.

We'll probably need another cheap backup goalie. Perhaps sign another fairly cheap younger player like Sarr. Then three hopefully first team ready players, that should perhaps be possible.

If we're talking 5 players ready to strengthen the starting 11 that's a big ask.

Quality and fit for the system will again be the most important, not quantity. But we need more than one.
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I meant 5 in total. So back up gk. Spence we've been linked with for rwb. Quality cb (any of the 3 names the telegraph linked us too sound good). Cm (brozovic, kessie out of contract. Tielemans, bissouma, kroos all in their final year). Someone that can cover kane but also be competition for son or moura, brereton seems good (either out of contract or they can extend a year, not sure). I think that would be possible in the summer. If we can get some money for lo celso, ndombele, doherty, rodon, tanganga, maybe gil, maybe hjolberg. Cl would help massively.

Obviously it's much more complicated in reality. Conte and paraticci will have their own names. But if we want to get the structure in place to win the league (as conte said), then it's what we need to do to get started. Closing the gap on the big 3.
 
Just as an aside. Fifas new rules regarding agents fees come in this year. Should make it easier/cheaper to get players.

For those that don't know what they are. It will be maximum 10% of transfer fee and 3% of wages that can paid to agents. All documents have to go to fifa to be ratified before a transfer can be cleared.

Obviously agents aren't too happy and it will go to court.
 
Lilbaz said:
I meant 5 in total. So back up gk. Spence we've been linked with for rwb. Quality cb (any of the 3 names the telegraph linked us too sound good). Cm (brozovic, kessie out of contract. Tielemans, bissouma, kroos all in their final year). Someone that can cover kane but also be competition for son or moura, brereton seems good (either out of contract or they can extend a year, not sure). I think that would be possible in the summer. If we can get some money for lo celso, ndombele, doherty, rodon, tanganga, maybe gil, maybe hjolberg. Cl would help massively.

Obviously it's much more complicated in reality. Conte and paraticci will have their own names. But if we want to get the structure in place to win the league (as conte said), then it's what we need to do to get started. Closing the gap on the big 3.
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Then we're probably in pretty close agreement. 2-3 that can expected to be starters, 2-3 more as rotation/backup options, perhaps with potential for the future.

Sorry about the misunderstanding earlier, I must have misinterpreted your post.

I still think a real quality attacking RWB could make a big difference. As much as a centre back or midfielder. Don't know if Spencer is ready for that step up and I think we might have to pay serious money to get that player in.
 
braineclipse said:
Then we're probably in pretty close agreement. 2-3 that can expected to be starters, 2-3 more as rotation/backup options, perhaps with potential for the future.

Sorry about the misunderstanding earlier, I must have misinterpreted your post.

I still think a real quality attacking RWB could make a big difference. As much as a centre back or midfielder. Don't know if Spencer is ready for that step up and I think we might have to pay serious money to get that player in.
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If we get our CF and CM on frees (e.g. Brereton, Brozovic/Kessie), that leaves all our transfer funds for RWB and LCB (we can loan another back-up GK).

Two big signings, with fees incoming for Ndombele, Lo Celso, Doherty, Rodon and maybe Hojbjerg, is easily doable.
 
braineclipse said:
Then we're probably in pretty close agreement. 2-3 that can expected to be starters, 2-3 more as rotation/backup options, perhaps with potential for the future.

Sorry about the misunderstanding earlier, I must have misinterpreted your post.

I still think a real quality attacking RWB could make a big difference. As much as a centre back or midfielder. Don't know if Spencer is ready for that step up and I think we might have to pay serious money to get that player in.
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As i said conte and paratici will have their own thoughts, and it will be dependent on who wants to come.

There will be more work to be done. As conte said it will take years. But think this summer would be our best opportunity to seriously strengthen.
 
Gutter Boy said:
If we get our CF and CM on frees (e.g. Brereton, Brozovic/Kessie), that leaves all our transfer funds for RWB and LCB (we can loan another back-up GK).

Two big signings, with fees incoming for Ndombele, Lo Celso, Doherty, Rodon and maybe Hojbjerg, is easily doable.
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Part of my point is that "free" isn't necessarily cheap. Wages, sign on fees, agent fees etc.

Some of those "free" players may have wage demands only the super clubs can match.

Not sure I agree with easily doable. More potentially possible. We also don't know what kind of fees we can get from players we want to sell or are ok with selling.
 
braineclipse said:
Part of my point is that "free" isn't necessarily cheap. Wages, sign on fees, agent fees etc.

Some of those "free" players may have wage demands only the super clubs can match.

Not sure I agree with easily doable. More potentially possible. We also don't know what kind of fees we can get from players we want to sell or are ok with selling.
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They may have wage demands only super clubs can match, but if the super clubs don't want them? Or have other priorities? Then those wage demands will have to come down.
 
Lilbaz said:
They may have wage demands only super clubs can match, but if the super clubs don't want them? Or have other priorities? Then those wage demands will have to come down.
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Absolutely. But it's all a bit speculative, while being presented almost as something we can just go out and do.

There are several good players with their contracts running out. But are there a lot of options there that would be a good fit for us and improve us significantly?

My feeling is that it's a small handful of players and we'll be left hoping that bigger and richer clubs don't go for them for whatever reason. Having seen Vlahovic, Diaz and Traore ending up elsewhere in January after what looked like reliable links to us I'm maintaining some scepticism about our ability to sign one or two of those "free", top quality players.

Would love to be wrong on that.
 
braineclipse said:
Absolutely. But it's all a bit speculative, while being presented almost as something we can just go out and do.

There are several good players with their contracts running out. But are there a lot of options there that would be a good fit for us and improve us significantly?

My feeling is that it's a small handful of players and we'll be left hoping that bigger and richer clubs don't go for them for whatever reason. Having seen Vlahovic, Diaz and Traore ending up elsewhere in January after what looked like reliable links to us I'm maintaining some scepticism about our ability to sign one or two of those "free", top quality players.

Would love to be wrong on that.
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I believe it's 60 players that played in the cl this year out of contract. Then many more next year.

Here is a list.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/statistik/endendevertraege

Then the ones in their last year
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/tra..._id=alle&altersklasse=alle&land_id=0&yt0=Show
 
Bedfordspurs said:
His chelsea midfield was functional supported by attacking wing backs
His team outscored their Xg by 19 goals. That was because they had 5 attacking players all the time and then had the shield of Kante and Matic
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Chelsea could get away with a functional midfield because they Eden flipping Hazard dropping in and providing the additional creativity along with their rampaging fullbacks. As I said before if we have an Eden Hazard in our team then fair enough but we clearly don't. You seem to be struggling to compare like for like.

At Inter where he did not have a Hazard he went for more than just a functional midfield. At Juventus again he had more than just functional player (Pirlo, Pogba, Marchiso). The only time you could argue he's had that was at Chelsea and I don't even agree that the case when Matic, Cesc and even Kante underrated passing is taken into account. None of our current lot get into that midfield (Betancur excluded).

It's one thing to claim it was functional, but are you also claiming we currently have the same level of quality in midfield as his Chelsea league winning side had? [emoji102][emoji1787]

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He won the league at Chelsea with kante (world class) and Matic (doenst excel at anything) flanked by Moses and Alonso …
The right coach (which we have) knows what his players excel at and makes the use of that. He is happy with functional players that can play to his plan which so why I think right now he is happy with his options.
I do expect an additional midfielder in the summer because I’ve read enough lately to suggest that was something he thinks he needs… although that was pre Bentacur
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Matic excelled in his positioning. He was the sort of player that gave a team the platform from which to play.
 
Bishop said:
Chelsea could get away with a functional midfield because they Eden flipping Hazard dropping in and providing the additional creativity along with their rampaging fullbacks. As I said before if we have an Eden Hazard in our team then fair enough but we clearly don't. You seem to be struggling to compare like for like.

At Inter where he did not have a Hazard he went for more than just a functional midfield. At Juventus again he had more than just functional player (Pirlo, Pogba, Marchiso). The only time you could argue he's had that was at Chelsea and I don't even agree that the case when Matic, Cesc and even Kante underrated passing is taken into account. None of our current lot get into that midfield (Betancur excluded).

It's one thing to claim it was functional, but are you also claiming we currently have the same level of quality in midfield as his Chelsea league winning side had? [emoji102][emoji1787]

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
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No I’m not
What I’m saying is in a conte team the midfield isn’t key
It’s the wing backs and the centre backs doing their jobs (attack wise)
Look at the numbers at Chelsea and inter for goals and assists from his wing backs and compare the attacking contribution from his midfield…
His midfield acts as screen to allow other players to do their job (under lapping centre backs for example).
You can’t compare like for like as it’s different players against different teams. What you can do is see where weaknesses were in teams and how they were addressed by the manager to get the best out of his players.
 
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